Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[drew]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Pretty well everyone on our street does theirs, except for a lazy few.

Eliminating residential sidewalk clearing would save a lot of dough.

Considering the frequency of sidewalk clearing thus far this winter in front of my house (once), I doubt it would save that much.

Realistically though, I can't imagine the sidewalk clearing amounts to more than a drop in the bucket of the overall budget.

I mean you have to start somewhere, but it's just a little machine operated by one guy, operating independently of the street cleaning. Maybe a conservative estimate of $100k a year per sidewalk plow?

[rypinion]

That's my thinking. Sidewalk cleaning is likely cheap and encourages pedestrians. Residential street cleaning is very very expensive. Reducing costs on the latter could be significant in balancing the cities budget.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by drew

Considering the frequency of sidewalk clearing thus far this winter in front of my house (once), I doubt it would save that much.

Mine has been cleaned 4-5 times this winter.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Mine has been cleaned 4-5 times this winter.

I think they clear sidewalks on bus routes more frequently? The sidewalk in front of my house and the feeder street to the main route has been done once. The sidewalk on the street with the bus stop has been cleared several times

[Riverman]

I'm not on a bus route but close to one. They have done my whole neighbourhood (Glenelm) many times.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

why are we even discussing the removal of a core service.......
lanes get plowed cause most people park in the rear... and thats were trash pick up is

That is the issue is a nutshell though, not all neighbourhoods have back lanes, and in those that do for some trash pickup is in the front. The snow clearing policy assumes that every residential street has a back lane and that all trash collection and garages are on back lanes. We need a better policy that correctly identifies where those activities are occurring and once we have that we can look at reducing the level of snow clearing to areas that are being services twice (ie back lanes and front streets).

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by rypinion

That's my thinking. Sidewalk cleaning is likely cheap and encourages pedestrians. Residential street cleaning is very very expensive. Reducing costs on the latter could be significant in balancing the cities budget.

Residential street cleaning is very very expensive partly because of the lack of coherance when it comes to residential streets -- many of the plows have to back-track and/or travel over the same street multiple times because of the curvilinear pattern. Take for example Linden Woods; how many times do you think a plow doing that area would go over the same piece of street multiple times, how hard do you think it would be for a plow to get onto those cul-du-sacs. Grid patterns cost a lot less to plow because it's down one street then one block over, almost no overlap.

The other thing is curb damage -- the "gentle curves" in a curvilinear pattern are hard to judge from the top of a plow when it had 10 inches of snow above it, so the plows hit the curb multiple times causing damage that needs to be repaired. Straight, grid pattern streets are hit once, maybe twice.

[cllew]

I have noticed that some of the private contractors have bought at auction a number of city sidewalk plows and are using them under contract to the city.

If the private contractors can get them to run reliably (one I have seen being used for at least two years now) why can't the city fleet vehicles dept do the same and keep them longer?

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by Riverman

I'm not on a bus route but close to one. They have done my whole neighbourhood (Glenelm) many times.

Wow, you're getting great sidewalk service. Sidewalks were done only once in my area (several weeks back), but my street has been plowed several times, right after each snow fall. Best street clearing in the 9 years I've lived here, right down to bare pavement.

[Andy6]

Wellington Avenue leading into the airport is a total disgrace. Bounced around like I was on a winter road up north. It can't be creating a very good impression for visitors to the city (if any). Given the attention that gets lavished on our suburban street, where ploughs seem to be out every other day, I can't quite understand how some major thoroughfares could be so bad.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by cheswick

I think they clear sidewalks on bus routes more frequently? The sidewalk in front of my house and the feeder street to the main route has been done once. The sidewalk on the street with the bus stop has been cleared several times

I am a good 3 blocks from Henderson and my sidewalk has already been done 3 times this year.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by h0twired

I am a good 3 blocks from Henderson and my sidewalk has already been done 3 times this year.

Well there goes that theory.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rypinion

That's my thinking. Sidewalk cleaning is likely cheap and encourages pedestrians. Residential street cleaning is very very expensive. Reducing costs on the latter could be significant in balancing the cities budget.

I would hate to see sidewalk cleaning cut back. I live in an older neighbourhood and when sidewalks aren't cleaned, people either don't walk or walk on the streets and those are unfortunate and potentially dangerous scenarios.

I know that there is the "shovel it yourself" school of thought, but the reality is that snow is too frequent and too heavy in this city to make that practical. It's easy enough to do in your 20s or 30s when you're healthy, but for seniors, shovelling twice a week would be a real burden. And I'm not sure that it's fair that an old lady would have to pay $250 a year or whatever for snow shovelling so that everyone could save $5 on their property taxes by eliminating that service.

Factor in the people who are away on vacation or just don't give a crap and soon you will have sidewalks that are useless from December to March. It's one thing to ask people to mow their boulevards, but shovelling snow is a much more intense and frequently recurring proposition.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by esquire

I would hate to see sidewalk cleaning cut back. I live in an older neighbourhood and when sidewalks aren't cleaned, people either don't walk or walk on the streets and those are unfortunate and potentially dangerous scenarios.

I know that there is the "shovel it yourself" school of thought, but the reality is that snow is too frequent and too heavy in this city to make that practical. It's easy enough to do in your 20s or 30s when you're healthy, but for seniors, shovelling twice a week would be a real burden. And I'm not sure that it's fair that an old lady would have to pay $250 a year or whatever for snow shovelling so that everyone could save $5 on their property taxes by eliminating that service.

Factor in the people who are away on vacation or just don't give a crap and soon you will have sidewalks that are useless from December to March. It's one thing to ask people to mow their boulevards, but shovelling snow is a much more intense and frequently recurring proposition.

How do old people leave their houses in your area during the winter?

Who shovels their steps, driveways and sidewalks on their property?

If they can't shovel snow, chances are they hire someone to shovel for them. I am sure the company shovelling for them could also shovel the sidewalk in front of their house as well.

Snowbirds generally hire people to shovel their snow as well. Since it keeps the house looking like it is not vacant for long periods of time and allows postal workers to drop off the mail. If you can afford to be a snowbird, you can afford to have your snow cleared.

[drew]

Originally Posted by h0twired

How do old people leave their houses in your area during the winter?

I can completely understand that for some people clearing their own steps is doable, but the sidewalks present a greater challenge.

Shoveling your portion of a city sidewalk is far more labourous and time consuming than than doing your own personal sidewalk, steps etc.

Not only is the area of snow to be cleared higher, but it is generally trampled down and compacted making simply "pushing" of the snow hard, or impossible.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by h0twired

How do old people leave their houses in your area during the winter?

Who shovels their steps, driveways and sidewalks on their property?

Judging by what I see walking around, the people who carefully shovel their walks down to the cement whenver it snows are in the minority. Many people don't shovel more than they have to in order to get in and out of their house. Expecting everyone to shovel a sidewalk to the same level as a snowplow is asking a bit much, IMO, and I doubt it would happen. You'd just end up with impassable sidewalks.

[Bluenote]

I find it odd some of the replies here.

For one most people in my older area are seniors. Guess what they do. Hire people to do their walkway and driveway.

Second I myself for for 28 years of my 41 years of age have shovelled the sidewalk and the neighbours. Now since I have better equipment etc. I do the entire block every time it blows for FREE.

What do I get out of it.

I don't get the city sidewalk plow digging up my lawn or hitting tree trunks. Best of all though is the appreciation I get from my fellow neighbours on the street who always thank me. So for the $5 maybe in gas for my blower I may spend. I get a lot more in return.

I am sure everyone has someone on their street with a blower or can chip in to the local guy clearing driveways.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by esquire

Judging by what I see walking around, the people who carefully shovel their walks down to the cement whenver it snows are in the minority. Many people don't shovel more than they have to in order to get in and out of their house. Expecting everyone to shovel a sidewalk to the same level as a snowplow is asking a bit much, IMO, and I doubt it would happen. You'd just end up with impassable sidewalks.

Seems to work just fine in every other Canadian city.

[Cyro]

Great post BlueNote.

I have a similiar situation and know of many others.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Seems to work just fine in every other Canadian city.

Sure it might work better in other Canadian cities, nearly all of which get more breaks in the weather that allow a bit of melting to occur, not to mention (in most but admittedly not all cases) less snow.