Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[racc]

Great news. Vancouver city council did even better than the staff recommendations.

http://www.geoffmeggs.ca/2009/06/02/...ng-on-cycling/

Vision council doubles spending on cycling
by geoff

Five pieces of good news for cyclists from City Hall today:

1. Council unanimously approved my motion to double spending on cycling infrastructure this year to $3.4 million by reallocating funds earmarked for car-oriented street improvements. (This will still leave 89 percent of the spending on car-oriented improvements, but allow city staff to fix many of the traffic problems plaguing the city’s bike routes.)

Changes this year will include:

More diverters, traffic calming and bike storage;
30 kph speed limits on bikeways;
Improved cycle connections to 2010 Games venues.
2. Council unanimously approved a motion calling on staff to renew the 10-year old bicycle plan as part of a new city transportation plan, with an emphasis on segregated bike lanes as the new standard for bike infrastructure.

3. Council funded at least 17 new pedestrian or cyclist-activated signal crossings to improve bikeway crossings at major thoroughfares.

4. Council approved car-free trials in four neighbourhoods – Collingwood, Gastown, Mount Pleasant and Commercial Drive.

5. Approved, in principle, a “ciclovia” event proposed by the Vancouver Area Cycling Coalition, with funding of up to $50,000, subject to creation of a plan the city manager deems viable within the budget and staff resources. The “ciclovia” that could see a stretch of Vancouver’s waterfront roads opened for pedestrians, cyclists and other non-motorized traffic.

[Jared]

"2. Council unanimously approved a motion calling on staff to renew the 10-year old bicycle plan as part of a new city transportation plan, with an emphasis on segregated bike lanes as the new standard for bike infrastructure."

Excellent news. Eventually (i.e. with 5-10 years, I think) we're going to get to a point where we basically have "enough" bikeroutes, in the sense that no matter where one is in the city, there's an E-W and N-S route very close by. At that point, the name of the game is basically improving the quality of them.

If we really want to see cycling become popular in Vancouver, and have it's mode share increase to 10% or more, it's going to coming from your average Joe with an old 10 speed in his garage, not the guy who wears spandex as a second skin (that type of person will always be a limited subset of society). Safety seems to be a major sticking point for would-be cyclists, and most people aren't going to be comfortable riding on lanes like the ones on Burrard downtown.

What I would like to see on the busier streets is something like this:


Source: Habfanman on SSC

It's amazing what a couple feet of concrete will do for perception of safety.

On side streets, I'd like to see instances where half the road width is taken over, to create a full greenway with a full bike ROW, rather than just a couple bikeroute signs and bike crossing signals. Expand the sidewalk a bit wider, build a 3m or thereabouts bike path, and use the rest for landscaping, with benches, fountains, maps etc. Something similar to the Central Valley Greenway between Victoria and Slocan. I think this would work very well on many North-South bike routes; most houses in Vancouver have their front doors along an East-West street, so it's not like you're taking any overly needed parking space, because the only people you're affecting are corner lots, who should already have parking spaces out front. Plus, I'm only suggesting taking half the road width, so you can turn it into a one way street, and have a thru-lane and one lane of parallel parking (most sidestreets seem to be wide enough for a parked vehicle at both curbs, and have two vehicles squeeze by each other).

[fever]

I'm still not quite sure about those two-way bike lanes on one side of the street they have in Montreal. That one's pretty typical. They seem to work fine, though.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by fever

I'm still not quite sure about those two-way bike lanes on one side of the street they have in Montreal. That one's pretty typical. They seem to work fine, though.

They actually work quite well, I thought one should be implemented somewhere in Vancouver. Think of it as a greenway that's right next to the road. I had the pleasure of renting a bicycling and cycling around Montreal. Montreal is hands down a better cycling city than Vancouver, although Montreal has a relative flatness in its favour. I remember going up one constant hill a few km long and thinking to myself "man, this is easy, years and years of cycling Vancouver means I can conquer anything!" lol.

[LeftCoaster]

2. Council unanimously approved a motion calling on staff to renew the 10-year old bicycle plan as part of a new city transportation plan, with an emphasis on segregated bike lanes as the new standard for bike infrastructure.

This is great news. Jared already said pretty much everything I wanted to say, but I will echo his sentiments that just a few feet of concrete or even a small curb like barrier can not only increase the perception of safety but just be a promotion of biking through its presence. A constant remdinder to get out of your car and cycle... its so easy to just mentally blend the lines on the road out but when there is an entirely segregated road it just seems so much more a permanent fixture of the urban fabric.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Jared

Safety seems to be a major sticking point for would-be cyclists, and most people aren't going to be comfortable riding on lanes like the ones on Burrard downtown.

Are you sure that it's safety? I think that is a concern, but a more realistic problem with cycling in Vancouver is the weather. People here are still afraid of the rain.

For the record I commute via bicycle year round.

[officedweller]

Good signage there - why do I think that Vancouver wouldn't post sign as clear as that?

[Jared]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Are you sure that it's safety? I think that is a concern, but a more realistic problem with cycling in Vancouver is the weather. People here are still afraid of the rain.

For the record I commute via bicycle year round.

Amsterdam has more days/year with measurable precipitation (186 vs. 166), but has a bike mode share of 27%, according to this chart:


Source

Granted, there's something to be said about intensity of the rainfall (we get almost twice as many mm of precipitation as Amsterdam), but even so, at some point you're either wet or you're not.

The rain is certainly another factor (I dont mean to suggest safety perception in the only thing holding people back), and I would expect that some people will avoid biking in the rain, but I certainly don't think it's something that can't be overcome.

Most of the growth in bicycle trips would likely come from things like going to the bank to deposit a cheque or going to the movie store. Basically, trips that are out of convenient walking range for most people, but are still under 2 km. A lot of these things can simply be decided by glancing out the window to see if it's raining, and if it's not, then you can go. This is different from a commute trip, which is probably a longer ride on average, and the fact you're probably more worried about being wet at work than you are about being wet at the movie store means people will tend to avoid cycling even if its only a grey sky. In spite of our reputation as "raincity" it actually only rains about 8% of the time, averaged out of the course of a year.

The other major benefit to "greenway" type bike routes is that they provide a more enjoyable ride. Let's face it, biking along a nicely landscaped path is a lot more interesting and relaxing that biking beside parked cars.

[racc]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Are you sure that it's safety? I think that is a concern, but a more realistic problem with cycling in Vancouver is the weather. People here are still afraid of the rain.

For the record I commute via bicycle year round.

Of course it is safety. This has been pretty much proven over and over again in countless surveys.

Snow and ice are more of a problem than rain. Still, in Copenhagen, 60% of cyclists keep going throughout the winter. They plow the bike paths first. Separated bike paths will help people feel safer in the winter.

And actually, I suspect that really hot weather is more of a deterrent to cycling than rain. With rain, you just put on rain gear. However, with heat, there is only so much you can take off.

[racc]

Originally Posted by fever

I'm still not quite sure about those two-way bike lanes on one side of the street they have in Montreal. That one's pretty typical. They seem to work fine, though.

We will likely use the one way cycle tracks like Copenhagen that are being built on Carrall Street. Two-way paths are best used when there are very few intersections and driveways.

[SpongeG]

i've seen people using bike lanes here doing it facing onwards to traffic - kinda freaky

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Are you sure that it's safety? I think that is a concern, but a more realistic problem with cycling in Vancouver is the weather. People here are still afraid of the rain.

For the record I commute via bicycle year round.

True. But even seasonal biking is better than no biking. It's the equivalent of asking a pedestrian if he's be more inclined to walk along a sidewalk or a road's shoulder with a painted line for demarcation. The Seawall physically separates pedestrians from bikes... and bike/person collisions are generally far less serious than bike/car ones. There are certain segments of the Seawall that are just a line or a different color pavement. Ask bike riders how many times they find pedestrians who walk into those bike lanes without looking.

[fever]

I also rented a bike when I was in Montreal last year, and used many of the two-way segregated bike lanes. Some of them are just separated with plastic tubes (like in the tunnel), and some of their bike lanes just seem to end, but overall their bike routes feel much safer than ours. A lot of drivers don't respect bike lane lines (e.g. they pull right over to make right hand turns from the bike lane or they pull into the bike lane and the right-turn lane to its right to get around an obstruction), so some physical barrier helps, even if it's just plastic tubes.

I also rented a bike when I was in the Netherlands last year. I posted some photos of the bike lanes in Harlem a while ago. They're similar to the Carrall Street greenway, except they use a red concrete, even through intersections, they're lower than the sidewalk, and there are some small differences at intersections. I think this type of bike lane is better than the typical bike lanes in Montreal in most cases.

[jlousa]

I'm not convinced on the safety factor being as big as surveys state, a large portion of people are unfortunately lazy, but when asked why don't you bike they aren't going to say it's too much work, they'll say it's not safe enough, it rains too much, etc etc. This isn't to say we shouldn't improve safety we should but at the same time let's not kid ourselves into thinking all those people who listed safety as their reason will suddenly start riding bikes.

Anyone know if any of the cities that have the bike rental systems have it tied in with their transit systems smart card? I can't think of any but it seems like a obvious match.

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I'm not convinced on the safety factor being as big as surveys state, a large portion of people are unfortunately lazy, but when asked why don't you bike they aren't going to say it's too much work, they'll say it's not safe enough, it rains too much, etc etc. This isn't to say we shouldn't improve safety we should but at the same time let's not kid ourselves into thinking all those people who listed safety as their reason will suddenly start riding bikes.

Anyone know if any of the cities that have the bike rental systems have it tied in with their transit systems smart card? I can't think of any but it seems like a obvious match.

makes sense, but getting a bike onto a crouded skytrain can be a pain in the ass.

And I've been in downtown Montreal and seen the bike lanes several times, though I've never used it. but from a pedestrian perspective it seems to integrate with the street real well. rather than just ugly plastic though, I'd suggest a small boulevard a foot or two wide, same height as sidewalks, to deter cars from crossing and add some green to the street. Possibly with small hedging, flowers, o just plain old grass and inlaid bricks.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by racc

We will likely use the one way cycle tracks like Copenhagen that are being built on Carrall Street. Two-way paths are best used when there are very few intersections and driveways.

The Carrall Street paths are excellent, I like the way they used different ground surfaces, streetlights, trees etc. to clearly demarcate between pedestrian and cycle space. Hopefully they won't have too many problems with cars parking on the bike track in situations like the right side of this photo:


source: SFUVancovuer's picture from CSG thread

I do like how they've dealt with parking on the left side though. It would be quite a simple procedure to convert one of those parking spaces into a bike corral in the future.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I'm not convinced on the safety factor being as big as surveys state, a large portion of people are unfortunately lazy, but when asked why don't you bike they aren't going to say it's too much work, they'll say it's not safe enough, it rains too much, etc etc. This isn't to say we shouldn't improve safety we should but at the same time let's not kid ourselves into thinking all those people who listed safety as their reason will suddenly start riding bikes.

There's been lots of "before and after" studies is many other cities, and generally the result is that improving facilities corresponds to an increase in ridership. Dedicated bike paths not only improve safety, they also provide a more enjoyable ride. A lot of people tend to assume Europe has always had huge cycling market share, and it's simply something we could never hope to achieve. In Europe, cycling decreased substantially from the end of World War II until about the 70's, before rebounding in places like the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark after it was made a priority. High cycling levels are no accident.

Obviously safety improvements arent going to get everyone interested, which is why there simply 1 part (albiet a very important one) of a larger drive. WRT laziness for example, Denmark has a "get rid of the gut" program targeted at middle aged men.

The "we're not dense enough, everything is too spread out" sentiment is another big sticking point that people have. For commuting trips, I can see this being the case, as they tend to be longer. However, as I mentioned, there's a lot of shorter trips that are currently done by car that could easily be done by bike if the proper facilities and encouragement is there. 1/2 of all trips in Greater Vancouver are under 5km, 1/3 are under 3km and 1/4 are under 2 km. All of these are reasonable cycling distances.

Anyone know if any of the cities that have the bike rental systems have it tied in with their transit systems smart card? I can't think of any but it seems like a obvious match.

Do you mean in the sense of the city wide bike rental program (i.e. Paris) being payable with a smart card? Or bike storage facilities being rentable using a smart card? I don't know specifically of anywhere that does it, but I'm sure it happens, because it's a good idea.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Jared

The Carrall Street paths are excellent, I like the way they used different ground surfaces, streetlights, trees etc. to clearly demarcate between pedestrian and cycle space. Hopefully they won't have too many problems with cars parking on the bike track in situations like the right side of this photo:


source: SFUVancovuer's picture from CSG thread

I do like how they've dealt with parking on the left side though. It would be quite a simple procedure to convert one of those parking spaces into a bike corral in the future.

in that pic with the parking - is that the same kind of parking deal set up for granville?

[deasine]

yes

[jlousa]

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - It's a matter of 'when' --- not 'if'. Vancouver's mayor says the city will be getting a bike-share program. That means the public can take a spin on the 'Montreal example' Friday and Saturday.

The company that runs the bike share program in Montreal, Bixi, will be setting up at Science World for the next couple of days. So people can test the bikes along the seawall.

Mayor Gregor Robertson says they're doing extensive research. "We're looking at systems that are in place in Montreal and Paris and other cities that have public bike-share systems. It's a question of how the city gets the infrastructure in place, the cost, how we cover all the costs associated. We'd like to get the system in place as soon as possible if we can answer all those questions."

The mayor says the bikes used by Bixi are "comfortable" and the system seems easy to use.

Braunyno Belo with Bixi says users in Montreal have the option of buying a membership, or paying the $5 pay-as-you-go fee. "It's a public transit system, it's not made for long rides and joy rides. You have three ways of taking a bike. The first way is a daily user, someone that is not a member. They would click (the button on the pay station), accept the terms, insert their credit card. In Montreal, they are charged $5."

Monthly and yearly memberships can be purchased, for $28 and $78 respectively. Members get a special key in the mail that allows them to unlock the bike from its station. Pay-as-you-go members print off a ticket with a code on it to unlock the bike.

Those payment options give you a half-hour with the bike, long enough for a quick commute from SkyTrain or the bus stop to get to the office, where there should be another bike station close by where you can park. There is an extra fee if you have the bike longer than 30 minutes.

For people who want to go for a joyride, Belo says "there are specialized shops that rent those type of usage bikes."

Montreal has 3,000 bikes at 300 stations. A bike taken from one station can be parked at any other in the city. If a station is full, there is an option that gives you an extra 15 minutes and tells you where to find the three closest stations with an available spot. "When you have 300 stations and they are 300-400 metres apart, that's not a problem," says Belo.

Montreal has been using the Bixi bike-share program since May 12th. "So far, so good. We've had over 40,000 trips total. We have over 3,000 members, that's yearly members." Belo says the goal is to have 10,000 yearly members. The goal is for the system to be self-financed within five years."

You can only unlock a bike from its station using your credit card or membership key, making them virtually impossible to steal. Even if a thief takes a bike with a stolen credit card, they won't have a bike that will be easy to sell. The style is unique, unlike anything you see in the store. Also, the parts are not compatible with other bicycles, and you need special tools to take one of these bikes apart.

Belo says they haven't had any stolen bikes so far. The system in that city runs seven months of the year, May through November, but he says it could possibly run all year in Vancouver.

If you want to see these bikes and take one for a short spin, they'll be at Science World from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. Friday and Monday, 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Saturday and Sunday.

Source
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/m...11_174753_2136