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  #381  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
yeah, detroit might have a better known brand than michigan, but i'd still put michigan's brand overall much higher than illinois'.

out of american's top 10 largest states, i'd say that illinois easily has the weakest brand. anyone disagree?
No disagreement there. There are several states with brands as weak, or weaker (e.g. Iowa), but they are far less populous and don't have a Chicago.

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the fact that washington state has to be qualified with "state" in the first place to differentiate it from DC is a major dent in the brand by itself.
Exactly. While there is a generic 'Pacific Northwest' brand that includes Washington, the fact that people must often ask "Washington? DC, or the state?" is a unique situation--and a uniquely bad situation if you're trying to sell the state brand.
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  #382  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 12:37 AM
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illinois is a more populous state but i’d argue that missouri has the most incoherent identity in the midwest. i mean what comes close except for dissecting kentucky and categorizing the midwestern guts of louisville or something?

indiana is just hard up midlands and i’ve never seen rice or cotton fields in indiana.
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  #383  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 1:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
illinois is a more populous state but i’d argue that missouri has the most incoherent identity in the midwest. i mean what comes close except for dissecting kentucky and categorizing the midwestern guts of louisville or something?

indiana is just hard up midlands and i’ve never seen rice or cotton fields in indiana.
Missouri feels similar to Ohio to me in that they both occupy blurred territory between the north and south. Both states have cities at either end that kind of 'pull' opposite ways. St. Louis feeling like the last eastern city, and KC feeling like the first western one sort of feels like the Cleveland/Cincy dynamic. Missouri's Ozark region is probably not too dissimilar from Ohio's Appalachian quadrant.

Granted, I've only spent a bit of time in KC and St. Louis on some road trips, so I am no Missouri expert by any means. And outside of those cities, I didn't venture off I-70. But I picked up a bit of an Ohio vibe. The spacing of the cities, and the fact that they are roughly equal sized also felt familiar, I suppose.
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  #384  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 1:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
illinois is a more populous state but i’d argue that missouri has the most incoherent identity in the midwest. i mean what comes close except for dissecting kentucky and categorizing the midwestern guts of louisville or something?

indiana is just hard up midlands and i’ve never seen rice or cotton fields in indiana.
Yeah, I've visited southern MO (SW and SE) a lot in my years and it is basically Arkansas. St Louis has a more midwestern feel with some southern mixed-in.

I've always thought some small-town kid from Arkansas would do well moving to St Louis before maybe a Cleveland or something to get a taste of the midwest without it being all in your face lol
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  #385  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 2:05 AM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Missouri feels similar to Ohio to me in that they both occupy blurred territory between the north and south. Both states have cities at either end that kind of 'pull' opposite ways. St. Louis feeling like the last eastern city, and KC feeling like the first western one sort of feels like the Cleveland/Cincy dynamic. Missouri's Ozark region is probably not too dissimilar from Ohio's Appalachian quadrant.

Granted, I've only spent a bit of time in KC and St. Louis on some road trips, so I am no Missouri expert by any means. And outside of those cities, I didn't venture off I-70. But I picked up a bit of an Ohio vibe. The spacing of the cities, and the fact that they are roughly equal sized also felt familiar, I suppose.
Missouri can't even agree on how to pronounce Missouruh.
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  #386  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 3:21 AM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Missouri feels similar to Ohio to me in that they both occupy blurred territory between the north and south. Both states have cities at either end that kind of 'pull' opposite ways. St. Louis feeling like the last eastern city, and KC feeling like the first western one sort of feels like the Cleveland/Cincy dynamic. Missouri's Ozark region is probably not too dissimilar from Ohio's Appalachian quadrant.

Granted, I've only spent a bit of time in KC and St. Louis on some road trips, so I am no Missouri expert by any means. And outside of those cities, I didn't venture off I-70. But I picked up a bit of an Ohio vibe. The spacing of the cities, and the fact that they are roughly equal sized also felt familiar, I suppose.

except there is no 500lb and growing gorilla in the middle of missouri devouring the state ...!
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  #387  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 3:56 AM
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Yeah, but Harambe was killed, so there's that...
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  #388  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 6:28 AM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Same with California.

Reputation - Golden Gate Bridge, Big Sur, Yosemite, Hollywood, beaches. Basically the Full House intro.

Reality - hot, dusty, dry. Basically the same as Texas.





Texas: hot, dusty, and dry some of the time, yes, but the summers are especially humid. Physical activity and breathing in the summer here are sort of like a dare. Still, and this is a conversation I was having with a guy from Houston this afternoon, I'd rather it be warm than cold just about any time.

As to that scene, I've never seen that many oil wells in one place. Sure, I've seen them spread across the landscape, but not quite like that. As for the mountains, I'm not sure exactly what range those most resemble in Texas, but that isn't far off what you find in West Texas, though, they're a bit lighter in color than what you see out there. But, other than the Davis Mountains, which tend to be the greenest Texas mountain range, most of the mountain ranges in West Texas do look pretty much like that one in California. A few are a bit more rugged than that, but the vegetation is pretty much spot on.
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  #389  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 7:22 AM
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The Permian Basin is like that. Filthy with pump jacks everywhere like that photo above and climate is pretty arid. It's west Texas.
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  #390  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 8:58 AM
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It's kind of comical. I haven't seen it, but it must be a funny scene with them all bobbing up and down at once.
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  #391  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
Missouri feels similar to Ohio to me in that they both occupy blurred territory between the north and south. Both states have cities at either end that kind of 'pull' opposite ways. St. Louis feeling like the last eastern city, and KC feeling like the first western one sort of feels like the Cleveland/Cincy dynamic. Missouri's Ozark region is probably not too dissimilar from Ohio's Appalachian quadrant.

Granted, I've only spent a bit of time in KC and St. Louis on some road trips, so I am no Missouri expert by any means. And outside of those cities, I didn't venture off I-70. But I picked up a bit of an Ohio vibe. The spacing of the cities, and the fact that they are roughly equal sized also felt familiar, I suppose.
i think of missouri as actually sort of a sequel to the ohio valley, but with one state straddling the missouri river. st. louis is essentially the urban endcap to the ohio valley, and the missouri valley is very german for 100 miles or so west. southern ohio and northern kentucky feels a lot like missouri with the swirling influences of german-americans (who were powerful enough in missouri even during the civil war to functionally keep a slave state in the union as the western arsenal was at st. louis), midland, and appalachian (ozarks a sequel) culture. unlike anything in ohio - dixie missouri is pretty delineated to the vast se mo river valley. every sizable town has a gentry and often even a small country club, vast white poverty and a large african american population, even majorities.

kc to me feels like the true gateway to the west - downtown kansas city as the gate. theres sort of a gap in the bluff cut by I-70 that i think of as the pillars of hercules at the gates to the mediterranean or something - beyond which is the vast atlantic (west). cincinnati similarly functions as a gate to the south (or north more specifically). i think of that dwight yoakam song “south of cincinnati.”
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Last edited by Centropolis; Apr 7, 2021 at 12:17 PM.
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  #392  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 12:28 PM
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Not sure if this is off topic.

The Adirondack Mountains in New York are geologically part of the Laurentians.
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  #393  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 1:39 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Detroit and Michigan definitely have completely different brands. As we know, Detroit's brand was much more negative than Michigan's for quite a while, but that started to change over the past decade. Unlike people that live in the Chicago area, though, suburban Detroiters began to identify as being from "Michigan" rather than the Detroit area, but this seems fairly new to me. To this day it sounds very phony when I hear it.
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Definitely. Michigan has the whole "Pure Michigan" campaign that was very effective and far reaching. Everyone I know from the Detroit area (and the one person I know from Grand Rapids) says they're from Michigan when asked where they're from. Never Detroit, the Detroit area...always just Michigan.

I think this is because Michigan has a pretty nice brand, especially for a midwestern state. It makes people think of lakes and forests, maybe the University of Michigan, which is pretty widely respected and appreciated. It's also no doubt due to the negative brand of Detroit. I know this is probably changing, but much of my extended family that lives in Metro Detroit actually hated the city and would talk about it like it was hell. Other than rooting for the Detroit sports teams, I think they really don't see themselves as part of "Detroit" at all. Or they don't want to see themselves as part of it, I guess.
Interesting. My experience has been quite the opposite, and I've lived here most of my life. When I talk to folks from Michigan, especially metro Detroiters, they usually say they are from "Detroit". That's always before I tell them I'm also originally from metro Detroit. Then, they will open up more and clarify the actual city. I'm sure this is just a habit born out of brevity. I think the going assumption of Michiganders is that folks outside of the state / Midwest still generally know where Detroit is (southeast Michigan), but have no clue that places like Rochester, Utica, and Troy aren't just in New York state, so they just simplify it to avoid the explanation. Probably not unlike someone from Arlington Heights saying they are from Chicago.

I think Michigan and Detroit's brands are inextricably intertwined. Michigan has a lot of natural beauty and it is also peppered with gritty, post-rust belt resurgence cities. Detroit's brand is definitely more positive now.

Speaking of geographic oddities, it also helps a state's brand when one can just point to their hand to explain to folks where they are from


Source: Reddit
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  #394  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 6:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
Interesting. I always thought Cleveland was a stronghold for Ohio State, especially more so than Cincinnati, which is suspicious of anyone/anything outside of 275.

Then again, I'm guessing Cleveland has a big Catholic population, just like Cincinnati? Does Cleveland also have an abnormally large amount of unisex parochial schools? I think that's another reason why ND has (had?) such a huge following in the Tri-State.
put it this way, you know the big three st. pats parade/celebrations automatically, right? ny, boston and they turn the river green in chicago. cleveland is still number 4.

https://www.theactivetimes.com/trave...rades/slide-15
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  #395  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
put it this way, you know the big three st. pats parade/celebrations automatically, right? ny, boston and they turn the river green in chicago. cleveland is still number 4.

https://www.theactivetimes.com/trave...rades/slide-15
No doubt Cleveland is a big center of ND fandom, but it's also probably the #2 market for Ohio State. Cincinnati is way less Ohio-centric than Cleveland, and that's reflected in football fandom.

On a related note, it's weird to experience St. Patrick's Day in LA compared to the East Coast or Midwest. It's a total non-event here. People don't even wear green. I remember St. Pats being a pretty big thing growing up in Cincinnati, and the parade downtown, while not huge, was always fun.
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  #396  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 7:06 PM
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^ no, cle is nowhere near the number two market for osu. for one thing, number two as compared to what? ohio? come on. im sure chillicothe for example beats it. regardless, nd is likely still bigger or as big fandom around cle than osu even today. thats not the case in cinci. unlike cle they have a real college there, uc.

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this is fun — 11 inaccurate geographic markers:


https://www.atlasobscura.com/article...raphic-markers
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  #397  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2021, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
Interesting. My experience has been quite the opposite, and I've lived here most of my life. When I talk to folks from Michigan, especially metro Detroiters, they usually say they are from "Detroit". That's always before I tell them I'm also originally from metro Detroit. Then, they will open up more and clarify the actual city. I'm sure this is just a habit born out of brevity. I think the going assumption of Michiganders is that folks outside of the state / Midwest still generally know where Detroit is (southeast Michigan), but have no clue that places like Rochester, Utica, and Troy aren't just in New York state, so they just simplify it to avoid the explanation. Probably not unlike someone from Arlington Heights saying they are from Chicago.

I think Michigan and Detroit's brands are inextricably intertwined. Michigan has a lot of natural beauty and it is also peppered with gritty, post-rust belt resurgence cities. Detroit's brand is definitely more positive now.

Speaking of geographic oddities, it also helps a state's brand when one can just point to their hand to explain to folks where they are from


Source: Reddit

My granny was born in Houghton in the late 1890's. I'll have to thumb my way up there one of these days...
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  #398  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2021, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
Interesting. My experience has been quite the opposite, and I've lived here most of my life. When I talk to folks from Michigan, especially metro Detroiters, they usually say they are from "Detroit". That's always before I tell them I'm also originally from metro Detroit. Then, they will open up more and clarify the actual city. I'm sure this is just a habit born out of brevity. I think the going assumption of Michiganders is that folks outside of the state / Midwest still generally know where Detroit is (southeast Michigan), but have no clue that places like Rochester, Utica, and Troy aren't just in New York state, so they just simplify it to avoid the explanation. Probably not unlike someone from Arlington Heights saying they are from Chicago.

I think Michigan and Detroit's brands are inextricably intertwined. Michigan has a lot of natural beauty and it is also peppered with gritty, post-rust belt resurgence cities. Detroit's brand is definitely more positive now.

Speaking of geographic oddities, it also helps a state's brand when one can just point to their hand to explain to folks where they are from


Source: Reddit
Another fun fact is that the people of Michigan don't all agree on what to call themselves. Michiganians or Michiganders, or better yet: Meshuggeners.
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  #399  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2021, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
put it this way, you know the big three st. pats parade/celebrations automatically, right? ny, boston and they turn the river green in chicago. cleveland is still number 4.

https://www.theactivetimes.com/trave...rades/slide-15
chicago and st. louis have two parades - the downtown parade and the “real” parade in an extant irish-american neighborhood on each cities southside. chicago would blow boston out of the water and st. louis would indisputably be #2 in the midwest if the respective factions combined - but i think its indicative of some old school irish-american political and parochial structures still in place in both cities. they lock people inside a boundary with one liquor/corner store called patrick’s in a neighborhood in st louis, lol.




brycecastorblog.files.wordpress.com

i always hear about kc being a top parade in the midwest outside of chicago but the crowd size has been 100k (?) smaller than st. louis downtown parade. i think theres a number of downtown parades in the midwest that are all roughly the same size though.
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Last edited by Centropolis; Apr 8, 2021 at 12:27 PM.
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  #400  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2021, 12:58 PM
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hey boston!



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