Interprovincial bridge crossing discussion

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Ships would go through the Rideau Canal, the very thing it was originally designed for.

Have you ever been on a boat on the canal? It takes about an hour just to get through the Ottawa Locks’ eight chambers. By that time a truck is already more than halfway to Kingston, and it would take a boat a good part of a week to get there. This in an age when people expect same or next day delivery

[mykl]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Just because something is beautiful, doesn't mean it can't serve some other purpose, especially if that allows the people who live in Lowertown to enjoy the beauty of that space. IMO, we should prioritize the people that live in an area over the people that just come to visit for a couple of hours once a week.

Hi, its me again. As someone who lives very close to the canal, I vote no on #CargoCanal which is the dumbest idea imaginable. Thank you for prioritizing me.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Barges may be the dumbest Ottawa-related idea I have ever heard.

For sure, but spending a few billion to divert some trucks is up there too.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

For sure, but spending a few billion to divert some trucks is up there too.

A bridge is a pretty standard infrastructure project, the kind of things most cities in most countries build. Dredging a 19th century canal that happens to be a World Heritage Site and significant tourist attraction, sending hundreds of barges per day along the canal and building large truck/barge transfer stations on both sides of the river is the kind of thing the Soviets or Chinese might do to a minor provincial city deemed expendable for the 5 year plan, but no sane city would do.

[OTownandDown]

Why not just throw some panamax locks in at Montreal/Quebec City, and then run them up the Ottawa. That way Renfrew and Mattawa can get shipments in on time We could go all the way through the French River system like was planned, to avoid those pesky Americans.

We can also upgrade the Rideau Canal system to Panamax while we're at it. You know, it would only be like, one lock downtown, and maybe one additional lock somewhere along the line. Just need to blast out a bigger turning bay in front of the Chateau, not sure if the Ottawa river is wide enough for a ship to turn there!

Fun to think about what it would look like, though!

[Dengler Avenue]

You need to blast a canal through North Bay between Trout Lake and Lake Nipissing too, taking out the downtown core. Sure who cares about Northern Ontario?
If you do that, @swimmer_spe might actually wanna plow a canal through your backyard. He already threatened to plow a freeway through the centre of my hometown for proposing Highway 417 on Lake Superior Shore.
======
In terms of cost, I think that tolls can be on the table as long as it’s not 407ETR expensive. But Ottawa will need to explicitly ban trucks from King Edward Street in that case. It’s been done in Nova Scotia (cue Cobequid Pass), so it can be done here too.

[Mikeed]

I find this whole situations utterly ridiculous and should have been solved decades ago.

Firstly, the original mistake of not finishing the connection between the MC bridge and highway 417 via the Vanier Parkway is very lamentable. This is the most logical cross river connection for the entire city as it's a highway to highway bypass around the downtowns without being overly faraway. I'm going to avoid the use of "Interprovincial" as this connection is *85%* for inner urban transportation between one common market and urban area. Be it trucks or personal cars.

Secondly, bridging the river via Aviation Parkway and Kettle island is another no-brainer. JUST DO IT. And while they are at it Aviation parkway needs a new name as it has nothing to do with the regional airport and should be re-named to reduce confusion.

If it was up to me *both* of these projects would be done concurrently.

And lastly, anyone who thinks the crossing at Portage du Fort has any bearing on this problem is smoking something. The roads to that crossing are not adequate for interprovincial traffic and completely glosses over *this is largely not an interprovincial link*; it's a interurban link.

Again, if it was up to me the logical solution is to link highway 417 to highway 50 via the Kettle Island bridge option and then connect 50 to 5 north of Gatineau while they still can.

Oh, and build that Ottawa ring road parkway and make it the best damn *park*way - I'm talking "world class" as they love to say. But a lot of this talk is definitely blasphemy here.

[Harley613]

Won't somebody think of the frogs?!?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

I find this whole situations utterly ridiculous and should have been solved decades ago.

Firstly, the original mistake of not finishing the connection between the MC bridge and highway 417 via the Vanier Parkway is very lamentable. This is the most logical cross river connection for the entire city as it's a highway to highway bypass around the downtowns without being overly faraway. I'm going to avoid the use of "Interprovincial" as this connection is *85%* for inner urban transportation between one common market and urban area. Be it trucks or personal cars.

Secondly, bridging the river via Aviation Parkway and Kettle island is another no-brainer. JUST DO IT. And while they are at it Aviation parkway needs a new name as it has nothing to do with the regional airport and should be re-named to reduce confusion.

If it was up to me *both* of these projects would be done concurrently.

And lastly, anyone who thinks the crossing at Portage du Fort has any bearing on this problem is smoking something. The roads to that crossing are not adequate for interprovincial traffic and completely glosses over *this is largely not an interprovincial link*; it's a interurban link.

Again, if it was up to me the logical solution is to link highway 417 to highway 50 via the Kettle Island bridge option and then connect 50 to 5 north of Gatineau while they still can.

Oh, and build that Ottawa ring road parkway and make it the best damn *park*way - I'm talking "world class" as they love to say. But a lot of this talk is definitely blasphemy here.

Sounds good should we find a money tree. I agree Vanier Parkway link was best option. Well we could still do that. A tunnel from Hemlock to Kind Edward would be much cheaper than any of these other options. Not going to happen.

I'd prefer if we are going to spend $5 billion on inter-provincial transport we fully link and complete our rapid transit systems. 1 billion to cross the river and the rest to each city. The truck thing is mostly a ruse it's really a suburban transport solution. No thanks. I guess if the feds pay for all of it we should take it but there are better ways to spend the money.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Sounds good should we find a money tree. I agree Vanier Parkway link was best option. Well we could still do that. A tunnel from Hemlock to Kind Edward would be much cheaper than any of these other options. Not going to happen.

There is no possible way a road tunnel from Hemlock to KE would be cheaper than a bridge (and still wouldn't address congestion on the existing bridges). It would be somewhere in the 4 km range, and the cemetery, river, complicated geology and supernimbys in New Ed would all drive up costs.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

But a lot of this talk is definitely blasphemy here.

[kwoldtimer]

Tunnel from Hemlock to King Edward? For what purpose?

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by acottawa

There is no possible way a road tunnel from Hemlock to KE would be cheaper than a bridge (and still wouldn't address congestion on the existing bridges). It would be somewhere in the 4 km range, and the cemetery, river, complicated geology and supernimbys in New Ed would all drive up costs.

I think the OP was suggesting a tunnel from Vanier Pkwy & Beechwood to the M-C Bridge to connect the Vanier Pkwy corridor.

If such a tunnel went under the river it would be about 1.5 km.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I think the OP was suggesting a tunnel from Vanier Pkwy & Beechwood to the M-C Bridge to connect the Vanier Pkwy corridor.

If such a tunnel went under the river it would be about 1.5 km.

Maybe if it was a cut and cover tunnel, but the VP is already overcapacity, so at best you’re just moving the problem slightly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Maybe if it was a cut and cover tunnel, but the VP is already overcapacity, so at best you’re just moving the problem slightly.

You can't do a cut and cover if a major part of your routing is a river, I take it.

Also the Vanier Pkwy routing even with a tunnel at the end would require lots of upgrades to that road, and a removal of the heavy truck traffic ban.

[Tesladom]

.... and NIMBYs!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

.... and NIMBYs!

Yes, though not sure how to "remove" them.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You can't do a cut and cover if a major part of your routing is a river, I take it.

Well, you can, but the retaining walls and caissons would be something.

[J.OT13]

From NCC:

Plans to replace the Alexandra Bridge continue, and an Initial Project Description will be submitted to the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada later this fall and public consultations will begin this month.

https://ncc-ccn.gc.ca/blog/report-on...s-october-2020

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You can't do a cut and cover if a major part of your routing is a river, I take it.

Also the Vanier Pkwy routing even with a tunnel at the end would require lots of upgrades to that road, and a removal of the heavy truck traffic ban.

Yes and frankly I am not even saying we should do this. But if removing trucks from King Edward was the real goal this might be a better option. You could sink the parkway like the 15 is in Montreal between Montreal Road and maybe Donald with each crossing over top. you would probably want a new bypass on the Quebec side so those bound for the 5 can skip the 50 traffic maybe. All this much cheaper but won't help those in Eastern Gatineau commute or land developers build new houses so isn't discussed.

I am all for linking Gatineu and Ottawa more but transit should be where we go with that. We have a lot of bridges already and no rapid or even semi rapid link unless you count the bus lane that quickly ends on the Ottawa side.