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  #921  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 4:17 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
I should have asked "how much taxpayer/city money was spent on the creation of lakeshore east?"
as of 2001 it looks like the city fronted at least $67 million for the park: http://www.neweastside.org/LSEassessment.html

structured like the lincoln yards TIF but not exactly.

i'd guess much more was spent over the 30+ years by the city developing lakeshore east. can't be sure though.
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  #922  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 10:42 PM
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^That discusses a special assessment on the condos of LSE to pay for the park. That's a very different situation from city funding or diverted property tax revenues.
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  #923  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 11:10 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
as of 2001 it looks like the city fronted at least $67 million for the park: http://www.neweastside.org/LSEassessment.html

structured like the lincoln yards TIF but not exactly.

i'd guess much more was spent over the 30+ years by the city developing lakeshore east. can't be sure though.
Nope, nothing was spent by the city, it was developed privately. I suppose you could say straightening the z curve was sorta money spent by them...
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  #924  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 8:24 PM
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Yeah. . . the park is paid for and maintained by LSE condo association assessments. . . and since the removal of the LSD S curve back in 1986 predates LSE by about 15 years I'd hardly put the city on the hook for any of the improvements to the neighborhood. . . which is a shame, really, since the transition areas from LSE to DuSable harbor and the riverwalk could have been much better improved with city input. . . and don't get me started on all the poorly maintained bridge structures that surround the neighborhood. . .

. . .
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  #925  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 11:17 PM
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Well, I think the point is that you CAN develop a neighborhood on a challenging site and still have the developer pick up the necessary infrastructure... but is that really what we want?

As Tom mentioned, that required a lot of tradeoffs and compromises. Not all of the streets in the SOM master plan were built, Magellan weaseled out of building a public school, and there were no transit improvements to the area so the neighborhood is functionally auto-centric and dependent on Wacker and Lakeshore Drive. Even if Magellan had wanted to build transit, that's not something they could do unilaterally, the city would have to lead the process.

Love or hate Lincoln Yards, but the city holds the pursestrings on all the infrastructure projects and they have the power to hold Sterling Bay to their word as stipulated in the Redevelopment Agreement. This arrangement offers the city, and the public, more control over the development than the PD process has done at Lakeshore East. If we want Sterling Bay to prioritize the transitway so that already clogged streets don't get worse, then talk to your alderman - they have the power to make that happen.
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  #926  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 5:28 AM
Sohcatoah Sohcatoah is offline
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Apologies, may be a question that has already been answered, but do we know when hypothetically the 606 extension would begin?
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  #927  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 1:46 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Nope, nothing was spent by the city, it was developed privately. I suppose you could say straightening the z curve was sorta money spent by them...
how is $67 Million in city issued bonds not the city spending money?
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  #928  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 1:58 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
how is $67 Million in city issued bonds not the city spending money?
Reading that link, private landowners in LSE have a special real estate tax assessment to cover the bond issuance, so it looks like LSE is paying, not the City.
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  #929  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 3:04 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Reading that link, private landowners in LSE have a special real estate tax assessment to cover the bond issuance, so it looks like LSE is paying, not the City.
Just because the city is using their credit and position as a municipality to push through a project doesn't mean they are paying for jack shit. You are correct, the city hasn't fronted a dime, what they did do is more or less co-sign for a loan taken out to build a park that will be maintained and paid back by the HOA. If that's not an appropriate use of government, I don't know what is.
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  #930  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 3:12 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Just because the city is using their credit and position as a municipality to push through a project doesn't mean they are paying for jack shit. You are correct, the city hasn't fronted a dime, what they did do is more or less co-sign for a loan taken out to build a park that will be maintained and paid back by the HOA. If that's not an appropriate use of government, I don't know what is.
I don't think the City even did that. They simply issued bonds. The SSA is responsible for repaying them. I don't think the City is at risk at all.
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  #931  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:47 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Reading that link, private landowners in LSE have a special real estate tax assessment to cover the bond issuance, so it looks like LSE is paying, not the City.
is this not effectively the same as a the Lincoln Yards TIF?
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  #932  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:52 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
is this not effectively the same as a the Lincoln Yards TIF?
Not really. A TIF is collecting taxes above the initial "value" and pooling/utilizing the excess "increment" for economic development. It sounds like the LSE area has instituted a special RE tax assessment above what the taxing bodies take to specifically pay for the improvements.
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  #933  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:54 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
is this not effectively the same as a the Lincoln Yards TIF?
Not really. A TIF is collecting taxes above the initial "value" and pooling/utilizing it for economic development. The taxing bodies in a TIF will not receive any additional taxes beyond the baseline until the TIF expires.

It sounds like the LSE area has instituted a special RE tax assessment above what the taxing bodies take to specifically pay for the improvements.
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  #934  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:57 PM
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Exactly, a TIF is effectively a backdoor property tax boost on all the residents of the city who don't live in the TIF district. The city decides on the total amount of tax revenue they want to collect, and works backwards to figure out tax rates and assessed values... but if the properties in the TIF district are sending part of their taxes to the district, then everyone else in the city has to pay more to cover the shortfall.

The lakeshore east structure is different, residents of LSE pay their normal property taxes and then pay a little more on top of that to cover the park and other neighborhood services.
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  #935  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 6:58 PM
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A LSE TIF would have frozen the tax collections at what the railroad was paying back in the 1970s, and steered all the area's property tax increase since then into paying back the bondholders for building the needed infrastructure.

Instead, all the increase over LSE's taxation proceeds when it was railroad land has gone to benefit the public. The new residents paid for the streets and pipes they needed (as part of their purchase price) and also pay extra property tax to pay off the bonds on the park.
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  #936  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 5:42 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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all very interesting. kind of makes me wonder why the developers of LSE didn't get a TIF district.
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  #937  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 8:24 PM
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^Pretty hard to make the case that it was blighted.
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  #938  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 11:47 PM
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BonoboZill4 BonoboZill4 is offline
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^Pretty hard to make the case that it was blighted.
True, underdeveloped =/= blighted
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  #939  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2019, 2:16 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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^Pretty hard to make the case that it was blighted.
was not LSE an old rail yard? like the 78 thing? or am I thinking of something else?

also the LSE developers are on the hook for a new public elementary school right? are the developers doing that out of the goodness of their hearts or what did they get in return?
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  #940  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2019, 3:13 PM
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
was not LSE an old rail yard? like the 78 thing? or am I thinking of something else?

also the LSE developers are on the hook for a new public elementary school right? are the developers doing that out of the goodness of their hearts or what did they get in return?
It went from an old railyard with a few towers scattered about over the decades to a 9 hole golf course I believe before the official LSE proposals came into the fold in the late 90s-early 00s.
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