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  #1521  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2016, 8:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlesCO View Post
The first new BART car to be built in decades is now making its way to the Bay Area.

Video Link


http://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2016/news20160314
Jesus...you'd think they'd try a little bit harder to actually make the new BART trains like they're from 2016. They look like replicas of the old cars.
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  #1522  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2016, 11:04 PM
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We've been here. I and many others certainly wanted to see something sleeker, sexier and more futuristic, but BART officials obviously didn't think that was the goal and seem to think these fit that bill, like SMART but not near as bad. It's not just a BART problem though,, it's really an American problem. US transit agencies just don't like to venture beyond the tried and true in terms of forward looking industrial design and international leading trends like open gangways, and one could argue that pushing the design envelope or good design in general isn't at the forefront of the American psyche like it is in Europe. I'm sure social theorists could expound further on the underlying cultural reasons for this.

It is sad fact that in my opinion, the original BART cars were more 'futuristic' than these, but it is what it is. For 90% of people it's the ride, comfort and arrangement of the interior, not the exterior styling that matters anyway.
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  #1523  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2016, 11:29 PM
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I will really miss the nose of the A cars once they're all gone (which is probably several years down the line), though I do understand why BART went with a straight edge design to make coupling and uncoupling easier.

I was disappointed that the original livery with the 70s blue cheatlines wasn't kept, though I think the brushed aluminum is still pretty distinctive. Plus, let's not lose sight of how much of an improvement the interiors will be and how new trains will dramatically improve service.
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  #1524  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 1:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
We've been here. I and many others certainly wanted to see something sleeker, sexier and more futuristic, but BART officials obviously didn't think that was the goal and seem to think these fit that bill, like SMART but not near as bad. It's not just a BART problem though,, it's really an American problem. US transit agencies just don't like to venture beyond the tried and true in terms of forward looking industrial design and international leading trends like open gangways, and one could argue that pushing the design envelope or good design in general isn't at the forefront of the American psyche like it is in Europe. I'm sure social theorists could expound further on the underlying cultural reasons for this.

It is sad fact that in my opinion, the original BART cars were more 'futuristic' than these, but it is what it is. For 90% of people it's the ride, comfort and arrangement of the interior, not the exterior styling that matters anyway.
This is really a matter of opinion. Of course I'm biased (I'll be the first to admit it), but I really like the look of the BART cars and I like how SMART looks also. Both trains look really "clean" to me. I've ridden Japanese trains hundreds of times and feel like these new trains aren't bad at all. I agree that good design isn't as important culturally here than it is in Europe. I have a feeling the culprit (as usual) is money. It's hard enough to get money to pay for trains and new cars, getting something that looks "too nice" would just give the anti-tax crowd more fuel: "Look how they're wasting your tax money on luxury trains..."

I'm thankful we're getting these trains and honestly, they could've been far worse. SMART originally had renderings of trains with Colorado Railcar and those trains were horrendous!
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  #1525  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 2:53 AM
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I 80% agree with you, except for your steadfast lauding of the SMART rolling stock. I think they're hideous and look like a Winnebago on rails and many others do too.
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  #1526  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 3:24 AM
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Boo on the BARTD for purchasing cars made out of state.
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  #1527  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 5:14 AM
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the new cars are disappointing. i wouldn't have minded a cleaned up version of the old one with the horizontal line and entirely brushed aluminum finish. that teal wedge at the front looks like a sports team from the 90s or something. the sloped front A2 cars are also a loss - they were what really made bart look futuristic. i guess it's just too much trouble.

smart isn't terrible for an FRA compliant train, but outside of that category, yuck.
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  #1528  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 1:59 PM
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I noticed the more sophisticated Euro styled squared off windows unsurprisingly didn't make it to production. We get the American style radius punch out windows instead. I'm not sure, but I wonder if the tempered radius style is more resistant to impacts and vandalism:


http://www.bart.gov/sites/default/fi..._plug_door.jpg
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  #1529  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 2:05 PM
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The Rohr A cars are great, minus the grafted on nose look. It's important to remember it could have gone the other way though and I don't think these would have aged near as well:


https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2829/1...d8f7ba45_b.jpg
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  #1530  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 2:07 PM
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  #1531  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 2:09 PM
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For the record, I would have been happiest with these:


http://imgsrv.kfox.com/image/kufx/Us...e/BARTCARt.jpg
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  #1532  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 2:12 PM
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Quote:
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Boo on the BART for purchasing cars made out of state.
If you accept any Federal funds for a project, you can't make a "Made in California" only purchase.
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  #1533  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 2:29 PM
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^Thats not how I understand Buy America regulations. The purpose and intent is of national economic interest, not a state one.
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  #1534  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 8:25 PM
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Boo on the BARTD for purchasing cars made out of state.
Is this a joke? The "buy XXX" crap is one of the reasons public transit is so shitty in the US.

BART should purchase whatever vehicles it thinks will work best for it's system. It's task is to provide quality transportation, not subsidized jobs.
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  #1535  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2016, 8:40 PM
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From what I remember, Alstom's bid would have made the cars in the Bay Area, though that bid was also hundreds of millions of dollars more.
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  #1536  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2016, 5:35 AM
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^ there's the alstom/siemens facility up in sacramento.

personally, the look of the cars is completely immaterial to me, i just want them to be quieter, as promised. kills me to go under any tunnel or the tube, like hellishly loud screeching. brr. fix that and i don't care if they're painted with the syrian flag or whatever.
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  #1537  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2016, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mthd View Post
...smart isn't terrible for an FRA compliant train, but outside of that category, yuck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
I 80% agree with you, except for your steadfast lauding of the SMART rolling stock. I think they're hideous and look like a Winnebago on rails and many others do too.
Fair enough, we're all entitled to our opinion. Just for kicks:

Here's what we're getting:


http://www.planningforreality.org/category/smart-train/

Here's what we could've got:


http://sonomacountygazette.blogspot....rain-bike.html
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  #1538  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2016, 1:22 AM
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No doubt it could have been worse northbay. But I can't stand the metric we have become accustomed to using in this country where the resignation is that our rolling stock will be dowdy and banal, and the "victory" is avoiding getting the even more dowdy and banal design.
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  #1539  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2016, 1:33 AM
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Last edited by Busy Bee; Mar 17, 2016 at 1:43 AM.
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  #1540  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2016, 1:43 AM
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I won't bring up all the ubiquitous euro examples but show one that is actually much more applicable to us. This is a Bombardier DMU for the V/Line service in Victoria, NSW, Australia — a culture, mentality and geography very similar to the one SMART will operate in:


http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/9...1df84bde44d737

I mean come on.
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