DENVER | Transportation Thread

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

-Sachs and the like are also using spur freeways, nut thru freeways, in their examples of freeway removal which is a false comparison.

Agreed. There aren't many (if any) apples-to-apples comparisons of highway removal for a facility of this type. Denver is actually pretty lucky in not having many spurs and bypasses. We have a lot of one-way couplets that actually saved us from freeways.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

-The tree-lined boulevard replacement is really a 100,000 car per day major traffic corridor, the traffic will not simply move elsewhere along the street grid due to the nature of the I-70 corridor being Denver's logistics corridor with a ton of originating and terminating vehicle traffic (along with a ton of thru traffic). You'd be replacing I-70 with a street that has twice the daily traffic of Colorado Boulevard- a street that Sachs has vilified for being an auto nightmare. Just what kind of tree-lined boulevard with meandering bicycle facilities will support 100,000 vehicles per day? It's called a surface highway.

From an urban design standpoint, it's most definitely possible to build a boulevard that processes that kind of ADT while still maintaining place and appropriate scale. Most examples come from Europe though. And I'm not sure it would apply to this area (not at least for several, several decades, if ever). But it's possible.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

-Their cost estimates are beyond ridiculous in being optimistic.

Yeah.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

-They equate managed lanes with general purpose lanes when talking about induced demand which is a false equivalency. I don't think there have been any studies done thus far to see if managed lanes cause induced demand, but it seems very unlikely due to the market clearing dynamics of variable pricing.

This, to me, is really one of CDOT's last big expansion project opportunities left in Denver proper (except central I-25 (maybe some more lids?!)). As the city continues to develop and the demographics change, it will get massively harder to implement roadway expansions.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Okay. Bar. Beer.

I'll bring a drone, and a dSLR so we can take saucy pictures of the soon-to-be-gone viaduct!

[RyanD]

This is how CDOT should do it from now on:

• Video Link

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Okay. Bar. Beer.

I'm pretty open, except for the Super Bowl, I work, drink, sleep, and work some more. Still nowhere near as booked up as RyanD. Someplace out east? Pick an evening.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Still nowhere near as booked up as RyanD..

I'm... Busy....

[Denver Dweller]

http://www.aurorasentinel.com/opinio...-doesnt-exist/

[bunt_q]

Transit really can't win. If traffic is bad, you can't take a lane. If traffic isn't bad, you can't take a lane, because then traffic will be bad.

[The Dirt]

Is there a transit version of a NIMBY or BANANA?

[bobg]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Is there a transit version of a NIMBY or BANANA?

AURORA

Against Useful Research Of Roadway Alternatives

[CastleScott]

Has anyone heard how many RTD hauled during yesterdays Broncos parade?? I bet it was a record...

[CastleScott]

Oh for anyone wondering about the RTD Bronco parade ridership, I called RTD and they haven't got any official numbers just yet but the guy I talked to said that they were beyond overwhelmed with riders.

[bobg]

Originally Posted by CastleScott

Oh for anyone wondering about the RTD Bronco parade ridership, I called RTD and they haven't got any official numbers just yet but the guy I talked to said that they were beyond overwhelmed with riders.

Not surprised. While waiting for friends to come downtown who were stuck at various LRT stations I had some fun reading the posts to RTD's Facebook page -people had a lot of over the top hate for going to a celebration-. Fortunately I convinced my friends to divert to some local buses and they made it in time.

Thinking about it though if the estimates are close to accurate the equivalent of over 1/3 of the population of the metro area went downtown on one day. My guesstimate is that RTD handled over 10 times what it normally gets heading downtown on an average weekday (granted spread out over a longer period of time). I would be surprised if any transit system in the world could easily take that sort of stress. Sure in raw numbers midtown Manhattan, the loop in Chicago, gare du nord, shinjuku, etc could probably handle it, but not the percentage increases.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by bobg

Not surprised. While waiting for friends to come downtown who were stuck at various LRT stations I had some fun reading the posts to RTD's Facebook page -people had a lot of over the top hate for going to a celebration-. Fortunately I convinced my friends to divert to some local buses and they made it in time.

Thinking about it though if the estimates are close to accurate the equivalent of over 1/3 of the population of the metro area went downtown on one day. My guesstimate is that RTD handled over 10 times what it normally gets heading downtown on an average weekday (granted spread out over a longer period of time). I would be surprised if any transit system in the world could easily take that sort of stress. Sure in raw numbers midtown Manhattan, the loop in Chicago, gare du nord, shinjuku, etc could probably handle it, but not the percentage increases.

Munich's system seems to handle it just fine during Oktoberfest, but they have preparation and experience every year to handle that.

From the pictures I have seen, it sure didn't look anywhere near 1 million people at the rally. A lot yes, but not 1 million a lot.

[bobg]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Munich's system seems to handle it just fine during Oktoberfest, but they have preparation and experience every year to handle that.

From the pictures I have seen, it sure didn't look anywhere near 1 million people at the rally. A lot yes, but not 1 million a lot.

I was at Oktoberfest in Munich opening weekend in 2009, granted it was a while ago so the numbers could have changed and memory is imperfect but it seemed like less people even in raw numbers. Is it really that big of a percentage of population going there relative to Munich as a whole?

[bunt_q]

Munich has heavy rail available, it's not even a comparison. 4-times the passengers per train; half the time to board them; double headways... it's apples and oranges. Light rail just doesn't have that flexibility. Particularly not in mixed traffic. And we sure weren't sending all those people to Union Station. You know, to walk the mile and a half to Civic Center... RTD can move what, maybe 15,000 people per hour per direction?

[Cirrus]

A big event on a midweek workday would be a prime record-setting formula. I can't find anything that tells me RTD's daily light rail record, but its average per day is 86,000 trips.

It's not going to be anywhere near a million, but it's not inconceivable that the parade might have been, say, Denver's first ever day above 100,000 trips.

[mishko27]

What I know is that all of the ticketing system crashed in the AM due to the incredible number of people using RTD, thus all RTD services were free until 8pm, so RTD earned nothing from this extra demand )

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by mishko27

What I know is that all of the ticketing system crashed in the AM due to the incredible number of people using RTD, thus all RTD services were free until 8pm, so RTD earned nothing from this extra demand )

I asked a buddy of mine at RTD and he said that's not true.

[mishko27]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I asked a buddy of mine at RTD and he said that's not true.

Well I work at RTD, so...

[DenverInfill]

When I left downtown Tuesday night around 8 PM, the bus driver told me the ride was free because of the parade traffic.