CHICAGO | General Developments

[Ryanrule]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

First, architecture is....mostly meh. Not horrible.

Second, I still don't get these. Not the right place for all of these proposed 250k+ sq ft office projects. It's just too far west from transit nexus. I think Sterling Bay is just better served sticking to the niche that it's excelled at. Part of the appeal of the historic industrial conversions into loft office space for the tech/millennial crowd is that they are authentic, have historic character, etc - and of course the significantly cheaper rents. This proposed new construction stuff aimed at this crowd just misses these marks. It's almost as if Sterling Bay (and the others that are testing such waters) are seeing if they can dupe some handlebar mustache-wearing, infrequently showered, man-bun folk out there (or those executives that make real estate and other decisions on their behalf)......

Just doesn't really add up....

thats pretty much all non top tier construction these days. lower class quality at upper class prices.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by bnk

Here is how their website is dealing with that bolded issue.


Randolph West is located just two blocks from the Morgan Green/Pink Line "L" stop and multiple CTA bus routes, and within one mile of I-90/94 and I-290. In addition, Randolph West will offer a building shuttle service to Chicago’s main commuter rail hubs, Union and Ogilvie Stations, located less than one mile east.




Its a solid website and I imagine they are taking the long view. Its a growing neighborhood with some excellent restaurants.

http://www.randolphwest.com/neighbor..._amenities.php

http://www.randolphwest.com/pdf/fulton_market_map.pdf

Oh, geez - shuttle service.....Sterling Bay has now thought of everything!

Only problem is you don't develop - at least not in this town - with the long view. You develop with the 3, 5 maybe at very most 7 year view. Land plays/speculation is of course another matter....there you can very well take that long view.


In the short-to-medium term, the large scale development that works for this area (notwithstanding zoning issues) from a market demand standpoint is still overwhelmingly residential. Smaller scale, yes you have the restaurant scene, some boutiquey retail, a little boutiquey hotel thrown in for good measure, and whatever wholesale/meatpacking, etc can hang on. Large scale new construction office I believe is at minimum 2-3 cycles down the road, and would require massive transit infrastructure improvements/expansion at that.....

[tjp]

Does anyone know if they'll be offering shuttle service to the Fulton Cold Storage / Google building, too? That building doesn't appear much more accessible than the Harpo development, from what I can tell.

EDIT: Answered my own question - shuttles will go to Fulton Cold Storage, too. It really is a cruddy commute from any of the north side neighborhoods, though. You either have a long walk from the blue line (if you're coming from the Northwest) or have to transfer to the green line (if you're coming down from the red line neighborhoods), which only runs every 10 minutes during rush hour. Is there any appeal to locating there, besides the coolness of being in the west loop? Maybe it'll spark some more development in Pilsen, along the pink line!

[wierdaaron]

Shuttle busses are fairly common for offices all around downtown, some of which use full size charter busses to scurry people around in the mornings and afternoons. I relied on one that stopped at the Board of Trade to get to 600 W Chicago.

Anyway, I've been out of the pool for a while. Is the Harpo thing a conversion or a new construction? It looks mired by the design constraints of a conversion but I think the whole exterior would be new, wouldn't it? If that's what they did from a blank piece of paper it's a little too.... uneven? I like brick but this seems odd.

[streetline]

Originally Posted by tjp

Does anyone know if they'll be offering shuttle service to the Fulton Cold Storage / Google building, too? That building doesn't appear much more accessible than the Harpo development, from what I can tell.

EDIT: Answered my own question - shuttles will go to Fulton Cold Storage, too. It really is a cruddy commute from any of the north side neighborhoods, though. You either have a long walk from the blue line (if you're coming from the Northwest) or have to transfer to the green line (if you're coming down from the red line neighborhoods), which only runs every 10 minutes during rush hour. Is there any appeal to locating there, besides the coolness of being in the west loop? Maybe it'll spark some more development in Pilsen, along the pink line!

Don't forget the Pink line, it runs every 8-10 min at rush hour, so it more than doubles the total throughput of trains between Ashland and The Loop. You'd lose time passing extra loop stations in the morning rush, but in the evening it's an identical trip to the Green line.

I wonder if it would be practical or worthwhile to run Pink line trains before noon counterclockwise and afternoon trains clockwise, to optimize transfers from the red line...?

As for the benefits of going outside the Loop? Price, big versatile floor plates, and proximity to transit and the CBD.
As long as they aren't expecting Loop rents, I expect they'll do fine in that location.
The location was good enough for Oprah even when there wasn't a Green/Pink line L station two blocks away. The Blue line or the OTC are a 12 min walk away, and Union station is 16min. It's nice that shuttles will exist for this and 1k Fulton, but I expect a lot of people will walk directly from transit most of the time anyway.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Oh, geez - shuttle service.....Sterling Bay has now thought of everything!

Not sure if this is facetious - but in any case, this is nothing new even in Chicago.

[chicubs111]

Just Curious for a fact check...How many buildings are over 500ft in Chicago? (including currently under construction)

[RockfordSoxFan]

Originally Posted by chicubs111

Just Curious for a fact check...How many buildings are over 500ft in Chicago? (including currently under construction)

According to Emporis.com
108 built
2 under construction
15 proposed

[The Lurker]

^make that three under construction.

150 N. Riverside...752'
River Point...730'
Optima II...588'

Each have dedicated threads

[ardecila]

Writers' Theater, Glencoe (Studio Gang)

This feels very Scandinavian and Aalto-esque.

[pilsenarch]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

First, architecture is....mostly meh. Not horrible.

wow, I can't believe all you guys go so easy on this design... when did it become acceptable to build a large new office building that attempts to appear as if it is an old warehouse renovation? and a very awkward one at that...

[King of Chicago]

Originally Posted by streetline

Don't forget the Pink line, it runs every 8-10 min at rush hour, so it more than doubles the total throughput of trains between Ashland and The Loop. You'd lose time passing extra loop stations in the morning rush, but in the evening it's an identical trip to the Green line.

I wonder if it would be practical or worthwhile to run Pink line trains before noon counterclockwise and afternoon trains clockwise, to optimize transfers from the red line...?

As for the benefits of going outside the Loop? Price, big versatile floor plates, and proximity to transit and the CBD.
As long as they aren't expecting Loop rents, I expect they'll do fine in that location.
The location was good enough for Oprah even when there wasn't a Green/Pink line L station two blocks away. The Blue line or the OTC are a 12 min walk away, and Union station is 16min. It's nice that shuttles will exist for this and 1k Fulton, but I expect a lot of people will walk directly from transit most of the time anyway.

Don't forget, the new BRT line is being installed on Madison Ave, and will be done soon. People can take their train line to the loop (whichever line they normally would use...Red, Brown, Blue etc), to the station nearest to Madison, then take that BRT line west, and then walk a couple blocks to the office.

Also, to add to that, I am starting to see a lot of creative types starting to scope out the West Loop and living there.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by pilsenarch

wow, I can't believe all you guys go so easy on this design... when did it become acceptable to build a large new office building that attempts to appear as if it is an old warehouse renovation? and a very awkward one at that...

You may be right......we could be treating the design with kid gloves, as it were, here for some reason.....

I mean at minimum, at a basic, philosophical level, it's in poor taste and unsophisticated. At minimum.....

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Not sure if this is facetious - but in any case, this is nothing new even in Chicago.

yea just stand outside Union Station on Canal during a weekday morning and watch the endless stream of Prudential/Aon/600 W Chicago etc buses pull up.

and yea, without that 600 W shuttle in particular im guessing they would have a lot of problems attracting the Metra crowd as theres really no convenient way to get up there. Fulton Market is sorta walkable (although our office is moving there from the Loop, and we've had a couple suburbanites quit and cite the difficulty of getting there/added commute time from the Metra stations as their reason. in the summer i dont think its that big deal but its kind of a crappy walk in the winter, esp for older workers).

[i_am_hydrogen]

Thompson Center to Sell 'Within The Next Year,' Could Be Demolished: Rauner

Illinois Gov. Bruce Rauner plans to sell the James R. Thompson Center to a developer who may raze and replace the structure, he said at a news conference Tuesday inside the Helmut Jahn-designed building.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20151...xt-year-rauner

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by RockfordSoxFan

...

Chicago Blackhawks, Stanley Cup Champs 1934, 1938, 1961, 2010, 2013, 2015.
Chicago White Sox, World Series Champs 1906, 1917, 2005.
Chicago Bulls, World Champs 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998.
Chicago Bears, NFL Championships 1921, 1932, 1933, 1940, 1941, 1943, 1946, 1963 and Super Bowl Champs 1985, 2015

Fixed your signature, bro

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

yea just stand outside Union Station on Canal during a weekday morning and watch the endless stream of Prudential/Aon/600 W Chicago etc buses pull up.

and yea, without that 600 W shuttle in particular im guessing they would have a lot of problems attracting the Metra crowd as theres really no convenient way to get up there. Fulton Market is sorta walkable (although our office is moving there from the Loop, and we've had a couple suburbanites quit and cite the difficulty of getting there/added commute time from the Metra stations as their reason. in the summer i dont think its that big deal but its kind of a crappy walk in the winter, esp for older workers).

For the record, initial comment was indeed facetious.......my point being that it's not at all unique.....the East Loop has tons of these - but then again, that's the East Loop - not out the same amount of distance westward, away from the CBD.......also, there are other large new construction office proposals out there in the far west loop, so this one is not alone - these developers are not understanding the market for new construction office (designed to pretend to be warehouse loft conversions mind you) is a fraction of what they think it is.......it's more of a niche type thing than they think.......(they're taking a real world trend - millennials somewhat changing tastes when it comes to the workplace - and over-extrapolating it............will one or two of these larger such projects potentially get lucky at some point later this cycle or next? Sure, luck does that - it sometimes strikes.....

[ChiTownWonder]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Chicago Bears, NFL Championships 1921, 1932, 1933, 1940, 1941, 1943, 1946, 1963 and Super Bowl Champs 1985, 2015

hah

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

these developers are not understanding the market for new construction office (designed to pretend to be warehouse loft conversions mind you) is a fraction of what they think it is.......it's more of a niche type thing than they think

A) the proof is in the pudding, if West Loop developers are landing office tenants then what's your beef? If they're not landing tenants, then they're not landing financing and not building anything.

B) the West Loop is not Siberia, people can and do manage to transport themselves there by various means (bus, train, bike, walk, and yes, a decent amount of driving)

C) everything in the city is dynamic. If the West Loop builds a critical mass of employers and the transit system doesn't keep up, then things will give elsewhere. Gentrification may pick up in Pilsen, for example, as younger workers decide they'd rather have a one-seat ride to work. Maybe even East Garfield Park, who knows.

[UrbanLibertine]

One of the buildings that makes up Kingston Mines (2542 N. Halsted) has a demo permit issued for it. Strange...