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  #30261  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 2:48 PM
msu2001la msu2001la is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
Has any off-street mall been successful since Pipers Alley circa 1970? I understand why the property owner would dream of being able to market mid-block space having no Division or Milwaukee frontage as if it did, but what's missing is for the "connection" to actually be a vital connection. The reason the Galleria Vittorio Emanuele II works is that it's on a path pedestrians already wanted to take. Many an off-street gallery has failed because they didn't understand that crucial factor.
Sorry for responding to a week old post, but it's an interesting discussion that seemed to get brushed aside.

Giddings Plaza in Lincoln Square, while maybe a different scale, is an example of a successful pedestrian only space with commercial tenants. Also the riverwalk seems to be on it's way to being one of these too. I'm sure there are others in Chicago too.

I agree that you can't just plop some commercial space down and expect people to be drawn into it, but this "wicker park connection" is coming with 275 new apartments in an already popular neighborhood with lots of pedestrians. I don't think it's crazy to think that some off-street commercial spaces might work there.
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  #30262  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 4:38 PM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
Giddings Plaza in Lincoln Square, while maybe a different scale, is an example of a successful pedestrian only space with commercial tenants.
But is it really? Cafe Selmarie opens to Lincoln, not to the plaza. The ice-cream shop is easily visible from Lincoln, only 50 feet away. And the connection is one that pedestrians already want to take, from the residential areas to the east to Lincoln Avenue and the L station.
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  #30263  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 4:51 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by UrbanLibertine View Post
Looks like SoNo is getting an addition (building permit issued yesterday):

"FOUNDATION/SUPERSTRUCTURE ONLY FOR 8-STORY 98-EFFICIENCY UNIT ADDITION (1515 N FREMONT) TO AN EXISTING 27-STORY 197-DWELLING RESIDENTIAL BUILDING (860 W BLACKHAWK) AND 5-LEVEL ACCESSORY PARKING STRUCTURE."
Nice - that is nice density. I've seen a small handful of these types of permits this month. The other big one is the addition to the Bank of America building at Division/Milwaukee/Ashland for 60 or so units.
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  #30264  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by munchymunch View Post
So apparently Reilly is changing 17-19 w Hubbard zoning from DX-7 to DX-3.

http://media.legistar.com/chic/meeti...08-27-2015.pdf

wonder what it could mean...
This crap needs to stop. What is the point of even having a dept of zoning of alderman can rezone to whatever they want on whim. Down-zoning two categories to the lowest level allowed in that part of downtown? The property owners should sue, that could be considered a taking especially if there was a pending sale with plans for redeveloping the property as of right.

And the city budget is in crises mode, we should not be limiting development opportunities anywhere in the central area. As a taxpayer, I am royally pissed off at moves like this.
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  #30265  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 6:44 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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This crap needs to stop. What is the point of even having a dept of zoning of alderman can rezone to whatever they want on whim. Down-zoning two categories to the lowest level allowed in that part of downtown? The property owners should sue, that could be considered a taking especially if there was a pending sale with plans for redeveloping the property as of right.
Keep in mind that Dierks Bentley's Whiskey Row was scheduled go to there. Do we not remember this? It's only supposed to be 2 stories tall.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=24830

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  #30266  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2015, 1:46 AM
King of Chicago King of Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
Sorry for responding to a week old post, but it's an interesting discussion that seemed to get brushed aside.

Giddings Plaza in Lincoln Square, while maybe a different scale, is an example of a successful pedestrian only space with commercial tenants. Also the riverwalk seems to be on it's way to being one of these too. I'm sure there are others in Chicago too.

I agree that you can't just plop some commercial space down and expect people to be drawn into it, but this "wicker park connection" is coming with 275 new apartments in an already popular neighborhood with lots of pedestrians. I don't think it's crazy to think that some off-street commercial spaces might work there.
Not only that, but the Wicker Park Connector will in fact connect two streets are already really popular. I used to live over by there, and it was always a pain to have to walk all the way to the corner of Milwaukee and Ashland, and then round the corner to go west on Division. I see this connector as an extension of Mautene Court all the way to Division.
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  #30267  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2015, 5:16 AM
TSSTaylor TSSTaylor is offline
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Originally Posted by UrbanLibertine View Post
Looks like SoNo is getting an addition (building permit issued yesterday):

"FOUNDATION/SUPERSTRUCTURE ONLY FOR 8-STORY 98-EFFICIENCY UNIT ADDITION (1515 N FREMONT) TO AN EXISTING 27-STORY 197-DWELLING RESIDENTIAL BUILDING (860 W BLACKHAWK) AND 5-LEVEL ACCESSORY PARKING STRUCTURE."
This could potentially be right next to the Aloft. http://www.salitadevelopment.com/?pr...-hotel-chicago

Used to live in SoNo, absolutely miss the views. That area has completely transformed in the past 2-3 years.
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  #30268  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2015, 1:14 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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The 8 story, 90 unit building for Clark/Belmont got its building permit yesterday (former Punkin Donuts).
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  #30269  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2015, 9:37 PM
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^^Awesome news!

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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Keep in mind that Dierks Bentley's Whiskey Row was scheduled go to there. Do we not remember this? It's only supposed to be 2 stories tall.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=24830

Regardless of what is planned there, this practice of random down zones must stop. A 3 FAR less then 1 block north of where the central office core zoning begins south of Kinzie Street is completely absurd. If this project doesn't happen for whatever reason, redevelopment of that property will be significantly harder to do as a dash-3 as base zoning doesn't even allow for bonuses if a PD was sought. This property could always be redeveloped again on the next boom cycle or two, stranger things have happened.

My speculation is they wanted to go bigger and this probably is Reilly's way of saying no. I would have less of an issue if this was in a landmark district, but as far as I know, it isn't.

Last edited by Chicago Shawn; Aug 29, 2015 at 11:53 PM.
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  #30270  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2015, 4:12 AM
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Not only that, but the Wicker Park Connector will in fact connect two streets are already really popular. I used to live over by there, and it was always a pain to have to walk all the way to the corner of Milwaukee and Ashland, and then round the corner to go west on Division. I see this connector as an extension of Mautene Court all the way to Division.
I can testify that there is quite a bit of pedestrian traffic between the Milwaukee and Division strips on Wolcott and Paulina...

The section of Division between Paulina and Ashland is kind of a dead zone, way too many missing teeth and the Wendy's just kills the vibe. However, Centrum's project may repair this stretch and fill it with bustling businesses.
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  #30271  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2015, 6:31 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
The section of Division between Paulina and Ashland is kind of a dead zone, way too many missing teeth and the Wendy's just kills the vibe. However, Centrum's project may repair this stretch and fill it with bustling businesses.
Someone needs to buy that Wendy's out and build something not shitty there like right now.
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  #30272  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2015, 6:40 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Chicago Shawn View Post
Regardless of what is planned there, this practice of random down zones must stop. A 3 FAR less then 1 block north of where the central office core zoning begins south of Kinzie Street is completely absurd. If this project doesn't happen for whatever reason, redevelopment of that property will be significantly harder to do as a dash-3 as base zoning doesn't even allow for bonuses if a PD was sought. This property could always be redeveloped again on the next boom cycle or two, stranger things have happened.

My speculation is they wanted to go bigger and this probably is Reilly's way of saying no. I would have less of an issue if this was in a landmark district, but as far as I know, it isn't.
I completely agree - I was just kind of saying "hey remember this is why..." Was hoping there would be something better put there but I guess not. A 2 story building is better than a surface parking lot, but still could be way better.
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  #30273  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2015, 7:09 PM
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Someone needs to buy that Wendy's out and build something not shitty there like right now.
Doubtful. They just invested in a renovation of the Wendy's.

I was hoping the new renovation would pull the restaurant closer to the street, or eliminate a curb cut on Division to shift drivers to a Marshfield entrance. Nope, it was all just lipstick on a pig.
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  #30274  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2015, 8:17 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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The Wendy's won't be so bad once the Centrum building that's starting now is complete. The problem is not the occasional drive thru bank or fast food joint, it's large concentrations of those types of underutilized land. For example, the relatively inoffensive McDonalds on Milwaukee North of Logan Square. Yes it's underutilized, yes it is anti-pedestrian, but everything around it is so dense and pedestrian friendly it's almost un-noticable. Once the other side of Division from Wendy's is developed, the Wendy's will probably just become background noise on a very strong Pedestrian street.
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  #30275  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2015, 9:06 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Doubtful. They just invested in a renovation of the Wendy's.

I was hoping the new renovation would pull the restaurant closer to the street, or eliminate a curb cut on Division to shift drivers to a Marshfield entrance. Nope, it was all just lipstick on a pig.
Maybe they are renovating it to make it worth more and get more when they sell. My apartment building did that somewhat. Doubtful though


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  #30276  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2015, 9:46 PM
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The Wendy's won't be so bad once the Centrum building that's starting now is complete. The problem is not the occasional drive thru bank or fast food joint, it's large concentrations of those types of underutilized land. For example, the relatively inoffensive McDonalds on Milwaukee North of Logan Square. Yes it's underutilized, yes it is anti-pedestrian, but everything around it is so dense and pedestrian friendly it's almost un-noticable. Once the other side of Division from Wendy's is developed, the Wendy's will probably just become background noise on a very strong Pedestrian street.
Yeah, that McDonald's is okay even though Rey Colon openly removed the P-street to build it.

However, Wendy's is twice the size of that McDonalds... it's set back from the street with two double-wide curb cuts and a very large parking lot behind. 33,000sf of suburban shit. The only redeeming thing is that it's not ruining a major intersection like the McDonalds at Milwaukee/Western. Other Wendy's in the city are far more compact and efficient... Ashland/Clybourn, Belmont/Keeler, etc. There are better ways to do fast food in the city.
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  #30277  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2015, 2:55 AM
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  #30278  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2015, 5:27 PM
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Sad news:
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Fire officials are looking into whether a kitchen grill touched off a fast-moving extra-alarm fire early Monday that destroyed a nearly century-old bowling alley in Lincoln Square..

Fire Department spokesman Larry Langford said the fire appeared to start in the kitchen area of Lincoln Square Lanes at 4874 N. Lincoln Ave.

"They're looking at it," Langford said. "That's where the windows were lit up when they arrived. It's kind of a clue."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...830-story.html
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  #30279  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2015, 5:31 PM
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However, Wendy's is twice the size of that McDonalds... it's set back from the street with two double-wide curb cuts and a very large parking lot behind. 33,000sf of suburban shit. The only redeeming thing is that it's not ruining a major intersection like the McDonalds at Milwaukee/Western. Other Wendy's in the city are far more compact and efficient... Ashland/Clybourn, Belmont/Keeler, etc. There are better ways to do fast food in the city.
Those are just land banks. Need somewhere for the proposals 5 years from now to go.
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  #30280  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2015, 5:56 PM
msu2001la msu2001la is offline
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But is it really? Cafe Selmarie opens to Lincoln, not to the plaza. The ice-cream shop is easily visible from Lincoln, only 50 feet away. And the connection is one that pedestrians already want to take, from the residential areas to the east to Lincoln Avenue and the L station.
I know it's not a perfect example and already acknowledged scale differences, but Cafe Selmarie's door is on the corner of the building and they only have one small window facing Lincoln, but several windows and street cafe on the plaza itself. It opens just as much to the plaza as it does to Lincoln.

Google Earth measures 120' from Lincoln to the ice cream shop awnings, and the signage is not visible from Lincoln in the Streetview imagery. The signage is on the south side of the building and vehicle traffic is one-way southbound on Lincoln. No one driving down Lincoln (an already heavily pedestrianized stretch, by the way) is seeing the signage for the ice cream store, even in the winter with no leaves.

I'd say given all that... yes, it counts as successful off-street/ped-only commercial space. I understand your point about success requiring a desirable connection. I think the Wicker Park project provides that. It's immediately adjacent to a CTA stop and provides a good ped shortcut between two busy streets.
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