Hyperloops in Canada

[Jaws]

Province signs pact with firm seeking to build 1,000 km/h link between Calgary and Edmonton
High-speed rail connecting Calgary and Edmonton has long been a dream of those seeking to solidify economic development in one of Canada's prime intercity corridors

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...-e44b86fc7fdf/

Bye YEG but it’s really nothing but a pipe dream.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Province signs pact with firm seeking to build 1,000 km/h link between Calgary and Edmonton
High-speed rail connecting Calgary and Edmonton has long been a dream of those seeking to solidify economic development in one of Canada's prime intercity corridors

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...-e44b86fc7fdf/

Bye YEG

Um?

Given that the fastest trains in experimental fashion have just cracked 600 km/h (on test tracks) and now we're going to connect two cities of just over a million with a train that is going to do Mach 0.8? The Shanghai Maglev - the fastest commercial train - has a top speed of ~430 km/h.

Somebody just walked away with a pile of the province's money and sold them a pipe dream.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by wave46

Somebody just walked away with a pile of the province's money and sold them a pipe dream.

More like the UCP bought some publicity that makes them look forward thinking (their target market is Albertans after all....) while doing absolutely nothing to rail improve intercity rail.

Even if the tech worked, common sense tells you that putting your Maglev train in a vacuum tube is not going to be cheap.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Yet your priority list includes, "4) Toronto-Chicago" and "5) Halifax-Boston" with "Winnipeg-St Paul" also mentioned?
.

Having better connections to the USA is a good idea. The existing 3, prior to Covid were running at least daily. The 4, 5, 6 all are between major cities and have intermediate communities with decent populations. The Atlantic, although it may sound good, doesn't bring much to the ridership.

Originally Posted by Jaws

Province signs pact with firm seeking to build 1,000 km/h link between Calgary and Edmonton
High-speed rail connecting Calgary and Edmonton has long been a dream of those seeking to solidify economic development in one of Canada's prime intercity corridors

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...-e44b86fc7fdf/

Bye YEG but it’s really nothing but a pipe dream.

Originally Posted by wave46

Um?

Given that the fastest trains in experimental fashion have just cracked 600 km/h (on test tracks) and now we're going to connect two cities of just over a million with a train that is going to do Mach 0.8? The Shanghai Maglev - the fastest commercial train - has a top speed of ~430 km/h.

Somebody just walked away with a pile of the province's money and sold them a pipe dream.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Vacuum tube transport has been around as a concept for generations. And yet the gullible fall for it, after Musk pushes the Hyperloop in an effort to get CalHSR cancelled, a real threat to his business.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

More like the UCP bought some publicity that makes them look forward thinking (their target market is Albertans after all....) while doing absolutely nothing to rail improve intercity rail.

Even if the tech worked, common sense tells you that putting your Maglev train in a vacuum tube is not going to be cheap.

If Alberta wants to dump money into this, why not. Maybe it'll be successful. Maybe it'll flop. I know one thing, you'll never know till you try. Right now it is a 20km section to test it. That isn't much different than the Skytrain's Expo. It showed the LIM is a great technology, and that even then, driverless trains are possible. With all the complaining about the existing ROWs in that area, at least this will solve that issue.

I for one, look forward to hearing about the success or failure of this test.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by wave46

Um?

Somebody just walked away with a pile of the province's money and sold them a pipe dream.

Based on the article, I'm not sure what makes you think the company received a pile of the province's money. Can you clarify?

Originally Posted by (linked article)

While the province hasn’t agreed to commit any taxpayer funds to the proposal, it has agreed to work toward finding a right-of-way for the elevated hyperloop, expediting approvals and supplying relevant transportation data.

Why would we not try to assist them? They didn’t come looking for a handout, said McIver.

Originally Posted by (linked article)

The study could commence early next year, said Toronto-headquartered TransPod CEO Sebastien Gendron, who called the MOU with the province “an excellent first step” that will encourage private investors waiting in the wings.

[milomilo]

Lol! I though people had stopped believing the bullshit hyperloop lie years ago. Not the UCP!

[Doug]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Lol! I though people had stopped believing the bullshit hyperloop lie years ago. Not the UCP!

Why does it matter? No government money going into this. I guess the Province could get stuck with a bill to demolish and dispose of anything that does get built.

The proponent is claiming to be able to generate the energy equivalent required to run the system from solar panels on the roof, which layers on even more suspension of disbelief.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Doug

Why does it matter? No government money going into this. I guess the Province could get stuck with a bill to demolish and dispose of anything that does get built.

The proponent is claiming to be able to generate the energy equivalent required to run the system from solar panels on the roof, which layers on even more suspension of disbelief.

Since it is obviously never going to work, someone has to waste money. What has Alberta given them that elsewhere hasn't? I agree that if this is entirely paid for by the private sector from install to tear down, then there is no loss, but what is more likely is they build it then go bankrupt and we become Ogdenville, Brockway or North Haverbrook.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Since it is obviously never going to work, someone has to waste money. What has Alberta given them that elsewhere hasn't? I agree that if this is entirely paid for by the private sector from install to tear down, then there is no loss, but what is more likely is they build it then go bankrupt and we become Ogdenville, Brockway or North Haverbrook.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I think it should be called what it really is: HypeLoop. Or, Pie-in-the-sky-Loop. Or, Loop-Line-and-Sinker.

Like some unmentionable forumer (forumers, as there is more than one) that poo-poos global warming as a fraud, or even if it exists, no worries, "we'll have the technology to completely reverse it" (which is a gigantic steaming pile of hypothetical horseshit).

Originally Posted by milomilo

HSR is only a fantasy because our politics don't want it to happen - there's no technical reason it could not be built in Canada, it would be easier to build here than many other places. Hyperloop, OTOH, is a fantasy because it's a pack of lies.

Guys, it's literally just a study right now .

I, for one, think that this is quite reminiscent of the backlash in Canada for developing the world's first automated metro system (Vancouver's Skytrain) or the general backlash for any other technological advancement. I support the notion to invest in studying the feasibility of a new technological way to travel and I will also support what the data finds.

In theory from my un-professional-no-PHD-in-physics opinion (which is something a lot of you share in common with me) IF a hyper-loop was going to function successfully anywhere in Canada then the Edmonton-Calgary route is a solid candidate for a few reasons:

1. It would be a straight route.
2. It is relatively flat.
3. There is demand on the route for the transport of goods.
4. There is demand on the route for passengers as indicated by the number of drivers and flyers between the two cities.

From the outside looking in, it seems that the route is a perfect match to test in Canada as Canada's first hyper-loop.

I do feel that the study into the feasibility of hyper-loop technology is worth it since widespread technology of that magnitude is necessary to reduce CO2 emissions from commercial and freight flights, as well as freight trains. It is time to stop thinking about technological limits like we are back in 2010; it's a new decade and a new generation that will need to invest in new technologies to keep up with the world.

And all of the HSR studies were dummied by red-tape and politicians IMO.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Since it is obviously never going to work, someone has to waste money. What has Alberta given them that elsewhere hasn't? I agree that if this is entirely paid for by the private sector from install to tear down, then there is no loss, but what is more likely is they build it then go bankrupt and we become Ogdenville, Brockway or North Haverbrook.

Alberta provided free land to construct a demonstration. Not many other jurisdictions could do so close to a major transpiration corridor.

I can only envision two outcomes:
1) some other idea, possibly a good one, comes out of this one
2) government gains experience in how to structure and execute the kinds of arrangements and attracts other future experiments

Beyond distracting the PR department, this carries zero opportunity cost:
1) HSR stands no chance in Alberta, at least not for many decades, so whatever this project turns out does not threaten. The population is nowhere even close to large enough
2) Beyond possibly being under cultivation, what other immediate uses would better suit this land?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Doug

Alberta provided free land to construct a demonstration. Not many other jurisdictions could do so close to a major transpiration corridor.

I can only envision two outcomes:
1) some other idea, possibly a good one, comes out of this one
2) government gains experience in how to structure and execute the kinds of arrangements and attracts other future experiments

Beyond distracting the PR department, this carries zero opportunity cost:
1) HSR stands no chance in Alberta, at least not for many decades, so whatever this project turns out does not threaten. The population is nowhere even close to large enough
2) Beyond possibly being under cultivation, what other immediate uses would better suit this land?

This would be far more defensible if Alberta wasn't getting stuck with the bill to take down whatever Transpod builds.

[Truenorth00]

Vacuum tube transport has been around as a concept for generations. And yet the gullible fall for it, after Musk pushes the Hyperloop in an effort to get CalHSR cancelled, a real threat to his business.

[Dengler Avenue]

I saw the news too. Alberta’s going big or going home.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Even if the tech worked, common sense tells you that putting your Maglev train in a vacuum tube is not going to be cheap.

Not only that, but there are some very significant safety concerns. It is one thing to seal a 76m airplane fuselage from leaks, it is totally another to seal a 300km tube.

You also have to look at the potential consequences if a leak does occur. In an airplane the cabin will depressurize (admittedly a violent action, but most passengers will survive) and the oxygen masks will drop. The plane will continue flying at the same speed and direction though, allowing the pilot to land the plane as soon as it is safe to do so.

With a hyperloop, if there is a leak, a wall of air will travel through the tube at a very high speed. If the train is travelling anywhere close to its top speed of 1000 km/h when it hits it, the capsule will be torn to shreds, killing everyone onboard.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Vacuum tube transport has been around as a concept for generations. And yet the gullible fall for it, after Musk pushes the Hyperloop in an effort to get CalHSR cancelled, a real threat to his business.

The dream of hyperloops are a way of distracting people from affordable improvements to rail transport.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

With a hyperloop, if there is a leak, a wall of air will travel through the tube at a very high speed. If the train is travelling anywhere close to its top speed of 1000 km/h when it hits it, the capsule will be torn to shreds, killing everyone onboard.

Am an aerospace engineer. Fully aware of the dangers, technical challenges and economic feasibility of this thing. But it's tiresome debating Musk fans who are religious about anything he does.

While on exchange, I showed the Hyperloop idea to my NASA aerodynamicist prof. He was pretty amused. But fascinated that it was good marketing on the part of Musk.

Originally Posted by roger1818

The dream of hyperloops are a way of distracting people from affordable improvements to rail transport.

He literally launched it as an effort to get CalHSR cancelled. He has a history of opposition to mass transport that has been called out by urbanists:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ansit-succeeds

Given that history and his own unwillingness to put his own money and time into the idea, unlike every one of his other ideas, it's pretty clear this was a distraction. Not a sincere effort at evolving a new form if transport. Heck, he's put more effort and money into building tunnels than he has Hyperloops.

[Mister F]

His tunnels are pretty much vapourware too. Seeing which of his businesses are legit and which are distractions can be a challenge.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Mister F

His tunnels are pretty much vapourware too. Seeing which of his businesses are legit and which are distractions can be a challenge.

Perhaps. But it's telling that he didn't put any of his money and time into Hyperloop. And this is a guy who sold flamethrowers on a whim.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Am an aerospace engineer. Fully aware of the dangers, technical challenges and economic feasibility of this thing. But it's tiresome debating Musk fans who are religious about anything he does.

While on exchange, I showed the Hyperloop idea to my NASA aerodynamicist prof. He was pretty amused. But fascinated that it was good marketing on the part of Musk.

That explains a lot more as to your comments.
BTW, what course do they teach to design something that works opposite of how everything has been done since Kitty hawk?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

That explains a lot more as to your comments.
BTW, what course do they teach to design something that works opposite of how everything has been done since Kitty hawk?

Do you think Fluid Mechanics works differently in a tube for some reason?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Do you think Fluid Mechanics works differently in a tube for some reason?

In a sealed tube?
Did you know you could have a ping pong ball break the sound barrier? It can be done in a sealed tube. It no longer is fluid dynamics when it is a vacuum.