I appreciate the friendly words. Please remember when reading this that this is not something I've just come to with no knowledge - I'm intimately familiar with Mueller from the getgo, and have formed these opinions not out of ignorance, but out of an excess of experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht
Hey Mike - congrats on Hyde Park - it's one of a handful of neighborhoods I really like in Austin. I'm sure Karen McGraw will have kittens once you get on the neighborhood list serves.
I agree with some of your criticisms on Mueller. The north west quadrant along IH35 is suburban in form (and yes, driving to that home depot is like driving to any other home depot, except the trip is much shorter now) and I don't ever expect that to be retrofitted (or don't discount that it might happen 20 years from now - but no where in the near future). But honestly - I've never heard anyone discuss retrofitting that - and in any case it would be so far down the line there's no point in discussing it - your point seems like a red herring to me.
|
Actually, Mueller apologists claim the suburban retail will be retrofitted within a decade or two. Not can be; not might be; not conceivably could be; but will be.
Quote:
|
The market district by the HEB may be a bit hybrid (some nods to urbanism along Berkman) - though basically suburban in form (cool suburban, but suburban) - which, I understand, was dictated by HEB's demands. I think this summer we'll have a much better idea of what that area will ultimately be. Of course, if we had Publix here in Texas, they could have figured out a more urban grocery store. Unfortunately, they don't service Texas. Yet still, the HEB will be a tremendous amenity for the neighborhood and Windsor Park and close enough to a LOT of housing to walk to in the 5-10 minute range - quite pleasantly, on tree shaded streets lined with both separated bike lanes and on-street parking and without having to cross large parking lots at all. It should also be noted the the presence of HEB does not preclude a Blue Royal type store to open in town center or down by the Tower some day, and Mosaic is already getting a boutique like convenience store as well (open this spring) and theres a really pleasant farmers market at the hangar as well, so there will be options for committed urbanites.
|
First, this makes it sound like urban grocery (or even a true hybrid) is a hard problem to solve. It's not - like most problems with Mueller, it's a lack of observation of successful neighborhoods nearby - like Hyde Park.
Look at Fresh Plus on 43rd. It's got a parking lot on one side, and it's got street frontage (pedestrian friendly front entrance). You don't have to go more than ten minutes from Mueller to have an example of what Mueller's planners should have demanded (and if HEB wouldn't give it to them, then wait; there's nothing Mueller gets from having a drive-only HEB slightly closer that's worth forever losing this opportunity).
t's absolutely not true that it's a quick walk down tree-lined streets there. You will, in fact, have to cross part of a parking lot to get there (in the best case scenario - coming from the side on Berkman), and you will, in fact, be the afterthought - not the primary or even equal thought, but the "oh. I guess maybe somebody might walk once in a while too, so maybe we'll paint a crosswalk or two". I doubt very much whether crossing the traffic lane to/from the loading dock is what most people have in mind as 'urban'.
Urban would be cars park over here, then they walk around the building to the main entrance the pedestrians are already at (or, like at Fresh Plus, again, right there for the looking-at, drivers have their own side-entrance but it's clearly the lesser of the two).
Two links from my fellow traveller the Austin Contrarian:
http://www.austincontrarian.com/aust...an-design.html
http://www.austincontrarian.com/aust...ealistic-.html
And no, the HEB is not incrementally better. It's going to stay suburban forever, and no, it's not true that it doesn't impact a Royal Blue solution in the Town Center (which is a suboptimal grocer anyways - people around here can and do use Fresh Plus for 100% of their daily needs; Royal Blue isn't there unless you are making a conscious point to eschew your car and put up with a small selection). I
If the HEB means the Town Center can't have something the scale of a Fresh Plus and instead gets a Royal Blue (and I doubt it will even get that), then the HEB screwed Mueller up for good.
Quote:
|
But the main problem I have with your criticism is that you don't seem to acknowledge Mueller is a work in progress (or rather - you seem to be dubious of any possible progress). The housing stock is actually dense and urban in form (oriented towards the street, small lots, garages in back by code, etc.) compared to most of Austin (you can't legally build that kind of density right now anywhere else in Austin except the CBD and a few transit corridors), with a mix of housing types and levels of affordability actually welcomed and desired by the residents and getting denser all the time (see section 6 and several new planned and being built apartment buildings - such as Mosaic 2, and the AMLI). And the town center plans are quite urban in form and should bring a nice mix of restaurants, pubs, retail, theater, office, etc. to the area. Yes, it doesn't exist yet - but it's getting closer and the city seems committed to it and catellus seems committed to it happening and the neighborhhod is not only accepting of urbanism but, unlike places like Allendale or Zilker, actually desires it to happen as soon as possible. If Little Woodrows wanted to open in Mueller, the residents would hold a welcoming party, not stick the owner with a pitchfork. The reality of the financial markets and slow down in the economy have no doubt set things back - but it's a bit unfair to criticize catellus for macro economic trends it has no control over or, over stuff that hasn't been built yet. And perhaps it's fair to say they should have built the town center first. . .but I'm not so sure this is right - I mean, NO ONE wants that to be a life-style center a-la the Domain, but rather something a bit more organic and real, and for that to occur there needs to be people first. . .so a bit chicken and the egg scenario going on I think.
|
If Mueller was a serious NU development, the following things would have happened:
1. Apartments would be mixed in with the houses, instead of being horizontally separated.
2. The Town Center (plus apartments) would have been first, rather than last.
Again, a nearby example exists! The freakin' Triangle! Built in far less time, with a real Town Center in it (even if it's got too many chains and was way too restaurant-heavy, it's been delivering the Town Center Mueller was promised for almost ten years now!)
Mueller's Town Center plans have shifted over the years to be far less ambitious than originally promised, and delayed by what will likely turn out to be a decade (if it ever actually happens). I sat on the UTC from 2000-2005 and was being briefed (and contributing slightly to) plans from 2000 on.
What Mueller ended up being is a medium-density suburb. People have to drive on nearly every errand (it is relatively bike-friendly, but so are many suburbs). This is unlikely to (ever) change, but it was easily avoidable.
As for the "just wait five years", that's what people were told five years ago!
Finally, if you're interested, here's a thread from about 18 months ago on the same subject:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=193564