Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderer34
This is actually a huge mistake on SEPTA's part of cutting off the 23 to South Phila and creating another route. While other transportation agencies are consolidating their surface routes (for example, the NYCTA had the former B40 and the B78 bus routes consolidated into the B47 via Ralph Ave from Kings Plaza to Broadway).
And what if trolleys were to come back on that route like the 15 did a few years back??? Splintering the 23 to make two bus routes is a very inefficient way of running the route (just like how SEPTA is inefficient), which is one of the busiest in the city. I was hoping the 23 came back in the form of a trolley from South Philly to Chestnut Hill, but like the ACC and the Mandeville, it's a project that's not likely to happen in the near future!!!  |
Most transportation types have long agreed the 23 needs to be split. The problem is that you've got a long and heavily-used route that actually functions more like three routes end-to-end-to-end. This meant that, due to frequent overcrowding, it also had cascade delays that affected less-busy South Philly. Anecdotally, I've found that the 23 was the most likely to bunch, which of course plays hob with frequency (no buses for an hour and then a bunch of four of 'em happened often enough to be irritating).
I don't agree with
where they're splitting it, though -- Broad & Erie is a natural terminal and where most inbound riders from NW Philly transfer to the BSL; the section along 11th/12th and Germantown up to there functions more like a N-S core grid line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan
While riding on the trolley and the front car of the MFL yesterday from 30th to 15th Street, I had an idea on how a MFL station in Market West could be created with a possibly minimal relocation of utilities and drainage.
For anyone not familiar with the stretch of tunnel from 30th to 15th Street: after the El (or trolley) pulls out, there is a steep incline. This incline progresses until, presumably, the tunnel is under the Schuylkill. After this point, both the MFL and trolley lines ascend.
Another thing to consider is that the trolley line is below the grade of the MFL. This is especially apparent under 15th Street, where the trolleys circle around the foundation of City Hall, under the MFL, and over the BSL. Because the trolley line descends down the incline and passes under the MFL, why not create a new tunnel from the lowest point of the tunnel to 13th and Market? With the aforementioned solution, concrete could be poured on top of the new tunnel, creating a pad for a new bi-level 19th Street Station, with the upper portion for the MFL and the lower portion for the trolleys.
People familiar with engineering: could something like this be possible? I imagine that a solution like this would entail a minimal relocation of utilities and drainage. The only concern might come with the structural support columns of the tunnel.
EDIT: I probably should have posted this in the Transportation forum. Feel free to move that is post if this is the case.
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It's possible, but I don't think the construction costs would pan out quite like that.
To begin with, inserting a new tunnel in an area already saturated with underground infrastructure isn't easy. Or cheap. While the tunnel corridor itself may be able to avoid other underground infrastructure, you'd still need a landing area and access tunnels, which probably cancels out the benefits.
The solution I came up with is to make a new concourse under the current tracks, and widen the tunnel between 19th and 21st into a new station box. What you do, then, is use the existing 19th St. carstop to access the new concourse on the east, and the sunken plaza between 2000 Market and the old AAA building (where the Wine & Spirits is) to directly access the concourse to the west. This solution would require the least amount of overall tunneling, although some utilities would doubtless have to be moved.
EDIT: Hey, cool, this "Move Posts" thingy
does work.
