Montreal-NYC Overnight Rail Service
A Montreal entrepreneur says he has $10 million lined up to start overnight private service between Montreal and NYC. They would travel nightly in both directions, leaving at 8 PM and arriving at 9 AM. Sounds promising, but we'll see:
Former CAQ MNA aims to launch overnight train service between Montreal and N.Y.C. The time is nigh for an overnight train between Montreal and New York City, says François Rebello. The Montreal entrepreneur and former Coalition Avenir Québec MNA says he has lined up $10 million in private-sector funding necessary to launch the service, allowing passengers to make the trip in the comfort of sleeper cars while saving money on hotel stays. https://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...real-and-n-y-c |
I support passenger rail but the fares needs to be competitive with flying. I looked for a week in September (Sept. 18) and there and plenty of fares between Montreal and LaGuardia for $110 - $130 US each way. If the ticket costs 2.5 to 3 times as much and the trip takes significantly longer, I can't see this being successful.
"The cost of a return trip would be roughly $400 Canadian, a price Rebello said compares favourably with flying and even to driving when gas, tolls and parking in New York City are factored in. Savings on New York hotels, where modest rooms can start at $200 Canadian a night, are also a selling point. The service could be useful for smaller businesses looking to save money on one-day business trips. Rebello sees a burgeoning market as well among environmentally conscious millennials who are less likely to own cars and prefer to avoid plane travel." |
I assume they mean $400 CAD for the train ride, not one-way, which is certainly competitive with flights. A $300 USD fare is reasonable, IMO.
But we'll see if this is implemented. The current Amtrak service isn't practical for most travelers, and it's kind of a joke to have such poor service between the two most transit-oriented metros in U.S.-Canada. Another question- Where is this train stopping in NYC? Penn is at capacity most of the day and probably isn't an option. Metro North has capacity at Grand Central, but are they amenable to another user? |
The Amtrak Vermonter leaves NYC but only goes to St. Albans Vt. (beautiful scenery along the way); you disembark and proceed the rest of the way via bus. This bus stops at the Customs and Border facility on US I-89 / Can Hwy 133 then proceeds to downtown Montreal, and coming back it's the same. Unless they plan on building and staffing customs offices, this doesn't seem in any way feasible.
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The current train, the Adirondacks, runs on the west side of Lake Champlain through Plattsburgh NY. I would welcome additional service between Montreal and New York. When I took it, the connections did not work on the return trip through Montreal. This may be resolved if VIA HFR receives funding. |
I wouldn't bother. It's still far too long for such a short distane on that "train". Many people hate sleepers, trains are noisy.
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Totally a waste of money and probably doomed to failure. When you can fly in 1 hour or even drive faster, a sleeper is just a ridiculous idea. Who wants to sleep on an uncomfortable noisy train with a typical bumpy american ride (freight tracks anyone?) Not many I'll wager.
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You all have forgotten a very important point why a sleeper train between Montreal and New York City is not going to happen! The towns and cities in between are not going to attract as many passengers in the middle of the night as they would during the middle of the day.
Just look at recent ridership data for the Adirondack. https://www.railpassengers.org/site/...es/3454/40.pdf Albany-Rensselaer 4,802 Croton-Harmon 2,855 Fort Edward 4,450 Hudson 1,436 Montreal 73,872 New York 97,350 Plattsburgh 13,325 Port Henry 2,395 Port Kent 521 Poughkeepsie 3,012 Rhinecliff 900 Rouses Point 1,276 St. Lambert 1,086 Saratoga Springs 17,398 Schenectady 8,518 Ticonderoga 2,246 Westport 5,626 Whitehall 1,776 Yonkers 2,476 Top city pairs by ridership, 2017 1. Montreal, QC - New York, NY 2. New York, NY - Saratoga Springs, NY 3. New York, NY - Plattsburgh, NY 4. Albany-Rensselaer, NY - Montreal, QC 5. New York, NY - Westport, NY 6. New York, NY - Schenectady, NY The data listed above is specifically for the Adirondack trains and not other Empire Service trains. While Montreal to New York is the top city pair, other city pairs with New York are higher than the next city pair with Montreal. Any night sleeper train will probably scare passengers away from the intermediate cities and get significantly lower low ridership in the middle of the night. I do not think the politicians from New York State, especially from Upper New York, will be as willing to subsidize higher loses for a poorly time train. And make no mistake, New York State is subsidizing this train, no one from Canada is. |
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For a weekend trip, there are the following options:
Drive - CAD 100 in gas returnTOTAL: CAD 400 - 500 Fly - CAD 300 for a return (via YYZ) or CAD 370 (direct)TOTAL: CAD 500 - 750 Overnight train - CAD 400 roundTOTAL: CAD 500 - 600 To be honest, looking at it this way, I might actually be tempted to use the overnight train for a weekend trip. It's financially competitive, and I'd definitely pay a little more to have a full weekend in the city and to not have to have it bookended by exhausting daytime travel. Just showing up, falling asleep, and waking up at my destination sounds great. That said, it becomes harder to justify when you're travelling with two people; Driving: $600 - 900I might still do it then just to avoid the drive and to have a more pleasant weekend without those rough quarter-day drives and midnight arrivals. But once you get to three people or a family, it's just hard to justify it. This is a problem for transit options more generally. If they could get down to Thello prices ($100-200 for a basic bunk in a shared room), then it'd be a no-brainer. But as it is, it still makes sense for a single traveller and for driving-averse couples. And it would always be a better option than flying. One more point; as LRT's friend mentioned, the current train arrival time means that you can't catch connections to Ottawa or Quebec City. An 8pm departure would mean that I could leave Ottawa after work and make the connection to NYC, and catch a morning train on my way back. It's the same on the NYC end, where you could connect to Boston, Philadelphia or DC. It increases the usefulness of the service, making significantly more arrival/departure options possible. |
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Again, as I seem to have to repost every one of my responses lately, who is going to pay the subsidy for your sleeper train? Canada will not, Amtrak will not, and New York will not. Looking at the data I posted in an earlier thread, just check out three of them again: New York 97,350 passengers Montreal 73,872 passengers and Albany 4,802 passengers Assuming the worse case, that every Albany passenger started or finished their trip in Montreal, and all the remaining Montreal passengers are associated with New York, that still leaves the remaining 28,280 New York passengers going to the remaining cities on the route. Some math 73872 - 4802 = 69070 97,350 - 69,070 = 28,280 Remember, that is the worse possible case. For each and every passenger not going to either of these two locations from Montreal, doubles those going to the other cities along the route. Whether it is just 28,280 or more than that, they are passengers that will not get on this train at midnight, 1, 2, 3, or 4 am at the same numbers as they will at noon, 1, 2, 3, or 4 pm. The shortest train length in miles and hours Amtrak uses sleeper cars on from New York City is the Lake Sore Limited, at 959 miles and 19-20 hours. The longest train length for an Amtrak train from New York City without a sleeper car is the Palmetto at 829 miles and 15-16 hours The Adirondack train length between New York City and Montreal in 381 miles and 10-11 hours. FYI, all the data I used on this thread can be found on Amtrak’s web site. |
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I do wish NY State and Quebec would work on fixing the rails through the Adirondacks, though. |
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Your responses all have to do with the feasibility of the train. I've got no opinion or insights about that. I'm just telling you how I, as a tourist, would make decisions if this train were in service. |
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