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-   -   noirish Los Angeles (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170279)

GaylordWilshire Feb 27, 2013 2:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6030959)
A currently we're graduating less than half of our students. An efficient way to destroy a city.

"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime." (or a series of them)
-Honore de Balzac

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7...namethinne.jpgGSV



Jesus, I thought I was cynical. It's called capitalism, tovangar. Not a flawless system, especially as the country ages, but corruption and self-interest and moral compromise have always been integral parts of it. How do you think L.A.--or any other American city--got built in the first place? (As for the quote attributed to Balzac--its translation from his original French has been debated forever. "Behind every great fortune lies a great crime" is a simplified and convenient translation, but it's a good idea to remember the subtleties of a more direct translation, such as "The secret of a great success for which you are at a loss to account is a crime that has never been found out, because it was properly executed."

In other words..."Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown"


Now, back to noir. Here's a link to an old post of mine that combines a school, bricks, and noir, and even an Ayn Rand connection: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=7373

DouglasUrantia Feb 27, 2013 3:44 PM
Chinatown.....
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6031159)
Jesus, I thought I was cynical. It's called capitalism, tovangar. Not a flawless system, especially as the country ages, but corruption and self-interest and moral compromise have always been integral parts of it. How do you think L.A.--or any other American city--got built in the first place? (As for the quote attributed to Balzac--its translation from his original French has been debated forever. "Behind every great fortune lies a great crime" is a simplified and convenient translation, but it's a good idea to remember the subtleties of a more direct translation, such as "The secret of a great success for which you are at a loss to account is a crime that has never been found out, because it was properly executed."

In other words..."Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown"


Now, back to noir. Here's a link to an old post of mine that combines a school, bricks, and noir, and even an Ayn Rand connection: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=7373
Well stated Mr. Wilshire. At the end of the day all the little people who built LA are dead and gone. Oh and BTW, so are all of the titans. That's real justice.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ps4ae429dc.jpg

tovangar2 Feb 27, 2013 5:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6031159)
In other words..."Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown"
I always appreciated your cynicism. I really need to work towards making mine as delightfully dry as yours. I'm obviously failing miserably in that department.

Great longer translation of the Balzac quote. I kind of wish the crimes were "properly executed", but they're so banally blatant (same MO over and over). My goodness we work hard not to notice.

Actually, it's called patriarchy (capitalism's just its economic component) and please always remember Jake, it's still Chinatown. All day, every day.

LOL, if you wanted to punish me, bringing up the Parker case is the way to do it (shudder). Now I need three Scarlet O'Haras.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 6030581)

kznyc2k Feb 27, 2013 6:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6030959)
GREAT pics kz! Do you have a location for the one above?
That one was listed as Hope Street near Third Street, showing houses on hillside with untended gardens, which means we're looking at the backsides of the houses on Bunker Hill Ave. Someone with better knowledge of that particular stretch could probably identify exactly which houses they are.

Hollywood Graham Feb 27, 2013 7:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6029280)
First of all keep in mind this was 57 years ago. But I don’t not remember EVER being schooled on the reason for the statue even being there on the campus. Was it commissioned for that school? Seems like a name of Thomas Star King might evoke some other type of tribute???? So was it placed there as a matter of convenience??? It was just there...and we called it Chief Itchytoe. Sort of a mascot but not in the same sense as high schools with team names and colors and all the rah rah that goes with school pride. Maybe Hollywood Graham might remember. I just don't recall any importance. I sure it wasn’t explained to my 12 year old mind and I’m sure my 12-year old mind never asked. But I know that the instant that picture appeared here the name came to me in a flash, so it had some lasting imprint.
Belmont, I dug out my 1956,7 and 8 year books and found nothing to show or elaborate about the honorable Chief Itchy Toe. Not even a photo was evident. I remember it well and by the way there were no graffiti, vandalism or horrible paint job on the Chief, that was later in his stone cold life. I tried to guess which photo was yours but could not pin it down.

belmont bob Feb 27, 2013 8:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Graham (Post 6031505)
Belmont, I dug out my 1956,7 and 8 year books and found nothing to show or elaborate about the honorable Chief Itchy Toe. Not even a photo was evident. I remember it well and by the way there were no graffiti, vandalism or horrible paint job on the Chief, that was later in his stone cold life. I tried to guess which photo was yours but could not pin it down.
HG, it's just as well that you didn't know my picture, haha. My Echoes seems to have disappeared a long time ago, but in the Summer 1956 addition I would be an A9, name Robert Benton. And you are right, I don't remember the Chief being the victim of mischief or mayhem. School yearbooks are put together by young minds and they don’t realize the significance that the brick and mortar school will have on their memories when they get to be old. So most yearbooks contain little of the campus.

belmont bob Feb 27, 2013 8:52 PM
Univeristy (Harding) High School
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graybeard (Post 6031060)
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/246...ersityhigh.jpg
University High School - 1925
From Skyscrapercity.com
The school was originally named for President Warren G. Harding when built in 1924, it was renamed in 1929 after UCLA moved west and a scandal had sullied Harding’s reputation. My father’s Belmont year books list the athletic scores as Harding. Both schools were brand new.

belmont bob Feb 27, 2013 9:06 PM
back stairs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6030959)
"Easier"? Follow the money. Who benefits? Demo, regrading, construction, fittings, furniture even re-landscaping. The bigger the project the more can be stolen. The more public financing involved, the greater the transference of wealth. There's plenty of money to be made, kickbacks to be paid and cost overruns to be excused. Our kids end up in crappy buildings instead of beautiful, gracious ones, with a huge cost in quality of life, building resentment.

Kids know what's going on, even if they don't know the details. They're learning all the time, even when we don't want them to. The environments adults create for them equals what we think of them.

A currently we're graduating less than half of our students. An efficient way to destroy a city.

"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime." (or a series of them)
-Honore de Balzac

OK, sorry, I'm soap-boxing again. LAUSD is just a huge sore spot with me. I need a couple of 65 cent Scarlet O'Haras (and an afternoon in Ferguson Alley).





GREAT pics kz! Do you have a location for the one above?





1997-2006 I think. (brain's going...I'm old enough to be my kids' grandparent). The last one would have graduated in 2008, but she graduated two years early. The first boy only went freshman year, then left for Queen of Angels and graduated early a year later. Middle two boys graduated two years early but stayed the whole four years for the theater program, graduating again in '03 and '06 (the latter year the same the youngest left). No wonder I'm confused.

There were 2600+ students at Uni. I can't find a current total on the Uni web site.
Amazing picture....!!!!

tovangar2 Feb 27, 2013 9:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 6031464)
That one was listed as Hope Street near Third Street, showing houses on hillside with untended gardens, which means we're looking at the backsides of the houses on Bunker Hill Ave. Someone with better knowledge of that particular stretch could probably identify exactly which houses they are.
Thx so much, I couldn't get the original link to work, so was in the dark re the captions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 6030581)
More Arnold Hylen over at California State Library, all dating from the early 1950s.

http://imageshack.us/a/img194/7783/l...0sbunkerho.jpg

FredH Feb 28, 2013 12:45 AM
[QUOTE=kznyc2k;6030581]More Arnold Hylen over at California State Library, all dating from the early 1950s.

http://imageshack.us/a/img194/7783/l...0sbunkerho.jpg


Wild guess.

If it was Hope Street near Third, could this house be the one along the right edge of your photo?

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5782/capturexq.jpg
Earl Witscher, Modernage Photo

Hard to tell. The problem is that my photo is from the mid 1960's and half of Bunker Hill has already been torn down, including most of the houses along Hope Street. That is the west end of the Third Street tunnel exiting below Hope.

belmont bob Feb 28, 2013 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6031724)
Thx so much, I couldn't get the original link to work, so was in the dark re the captions.

So what is it that elicits bizarre thoughts about the black and white photos of the back of old long gone houses? Is there a sinister image that just flows to our collective minds? It’s not because we are invading their privacy, because these are anything but private…Someone explain it to me…Haha..just asking

belmont bob Feb 28, 2013 2:02 AM
[QUOTE=FredH;6032035]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 6030581)
More Arnold Hylen over at California State Library, all dating from the early 1950s.

http://imageshack.us/a/img194/7783/l...0sbunkerho.jpg


Wild guess.

If it was Hope Street near Third, could this house be the one along the right edge of your photo?

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5782/capturexq.jpg
Earl Witscher, Modernage Photo

Hard to tell. The problem is that my photo is from the mid 1960's and half of Bunker Hill has already been torn down, including most of the houses along Hope Street. That is the west end of the Third Street tunnel exiting below Hope.
Is this not the west portal of the 3rd. street tunnel or am I wrong. Aren’t there a number of photos of different times and views already on the forum? I’d have no idea of how to go back and look tho. I'm not sure how to do this but on page 20 their is clear view of the house on the right.

GaylordWilshire Feb 28, 2013 2:26 AM
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7...ewarthouse.jpgGSV


CurbedLA has an interesting item today--the 1871 John Marcellus Stewart house, apparently once the only house for miles around: Check it out here.


The "Victorian mansion" referred to in the Curbed article was at 512 West 30th.

Unfortunately a good bit of it is indecipherable, but here's an item from the Times of just over 100 years ago:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4...rtartcompl.jpgLAT


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F...919%2520PM.jpgfindagrave.com
At Rosedale for the past century...

tovangar2 Feb 28, 2013 2:49 AM
:previous:

Apparently the Stewarts owned another home at Figueroa and Brooklyn (now Chavez). They sold it in 1887:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/t3...366-h768-rw-no
la herald, 23 Oct 1887

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RX...366-h768-rw-no
la herald 11 Sept 1888

Graybeard Feb 28, 2013 3:11 AM
[QUOTE=belmont bob;6032126]
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredH (Post 6032035)

Is this not the west portal of the 3rd. street tunnel or am I wrong. Aren’t there a number of photos of different times and views already on the forum? I’d have no idea of how to go back and look tho. I'm not sure how to do this but on page 20 their is clear view of the house on the right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 4535757)
Below: Two views of the same tunnel.


http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7...nnelhuge2a.jpg
usc digital archive



Below: And a view from atop the tunnel.


http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6404/...tunnelhuge.jpg
usc digital archive
These photos?

rick m Feb 28, 2013 4:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 6031464)
That one was listed as Hope Street near Third Street, showing houses on hillside with untended gardens, which means we're looking at the backsides of the houses on Bunker Hill Ave. Someone with better knowledge of that particular stretch could probably identify exactly which houses they are.
Here ---is the scene of this A.Hylen hillside 'scape: Right side shows some of #302 S.Hope just above tunnel's south edge- -foliage beyond was at foot of completely hidden-from-view Alta Vista Hotel. Next structure was the rear cottage of the Orville Cooper place (#252 S.Bunker Hill Ave) Then on left is the back part of the Stewart-Thompson pair of houses (#239-237) Whew---I finished--

Matthew Feb 28, 2013 4:47 AM
This photograph, from Page 20, has a clear view of the house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Los Angeles Past (Post 4537893)

FredH Feb 28, 2013 5:15 AM
[QUOTE=belmont bob;6032126]
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredH (Post 6032035)

Is this not the west portal of the 3rd. street tunnel or am I wrong. Aren’t there a number of photos of different times and views already on the forum? I’d have no idea of how to go back and look tho. I'm not sure how to do this but on page 20 their is clear view of the house on the right.
Nice find Belmont Bob. Yes, this is definitely the house in kznyc2k's photo and yes, this is the west portal of the Third Street tunnel. Also, from the location of this house in ER's photo from page 20, it is also the same house in my photo.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/465...hollywoodb.jpg
dearoldhollywoodblog.com

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/778...0sbunkerho.jpg
california State Library

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5782/capturexq.jpg
Earl Witscher, Modernage Photo

The strange thing is that the small house on the stilts does not seem to be in either of the other two photos. ???

belmont bob Feb 28, 2013 5:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 4523246)
^^^LOL. Sometimes I can be pretty slow.

I have those pics, but I never put two and two together that the pics are of the SAME tunnel until your explanation
"Here's the east end of the same tunnel."

No wonder I'm always confused by the tunnel pics. I never considered the other side of the hill. Duh!




below: A photo of the 3rd Street tunnel, west entrance.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/8...okingeast1.jpg
usc digital archive






below: The only description on this photo was Hope Street, Bunker Hill.


http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7...illhopestr.jpg
Cal State Library

above: Can you imagine the sordid 'going-ons' inside the Hotel Elmar.

This is a good example of a photograph with 'noir' qualities.....
The transient SRO hotel...the lone man....the empty streets and overcast sky.
now this from page 19 (upper), view from closer, the house on the right is hidden behind the building but the house over to the left is the same one with the balcony that is center on the subject photo...based on the cars I'd guess late 30's to early 40's...the large building is the Alta Vista (Apartments/Hotel??) facing onto Bunker Hill Ave.

FredH Feb 28, 2013 6:16 AM
You can see the small house on the stilts in that picture too.


Unfortunately, the great, noirish Elmar Hotel was turned into this vacant lot:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5606/capture1tk.jpg
Earl witscher, Modernage Photo Service


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