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GaylordWilshire Dec 18, 2011 7:58 PM

Remnants and relics
 
e_r: So it seems that Teed Street still exits on some current maps but vanished from the actual streetscape years ago.... but at least now I see that the east section of Bellevue (or Belle Vue or Belleview, depending on the cartographer) from about Sisters Hospital became an extension of Sunset/Chavez.... Of course, even though I knew you'd done your due diligence and cruised the area by Google Street View, I naturally had to do so myself, hoping, hoping to uncover some relic of Teed on more than just a map. Oh the pain of finding nothing... but...

Loving relics of the streetscape as I do, I was gratified to find a remnant in the form of steps back on Westchester Place, which we were discussing a few days ago. They are apparently from a third Rosenheim house design on the street, the Robert Marsh house at 1119 Westchester. Looks like this short flight of steps and wall are left from the original Marsh grounds...


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e...chesterold.jpgKansas Sebastian

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics23/00061276.jpgLAPL

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-T...2520AM.bmp.jpgGoogle Street View

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-R...2520AM.bmp.jpgGoogle Street View

Bilbo Dec 18, 2011 8:27 PM

Telephone directories
 
I seem to remember a few postings ago that someone had old copies of LA telephone directories.

If anyone has a copy circa 1930 will you kindly ley me know if there is an entry for "Guy Mcafee" - and if so - what address is shown

thank you:thankyouthankyou:

GaylordWilshire Dec 18, 2011 9:41 PM

:previous:

In the 1929 city directory Guy McAfee was at 121 W Fremont Place--pretty swanky.... I think we've seen him here on these pages before. I assume you mean the Guy Mcafee who started out as a cop and then ran nightclubs on the Strip during Prohibition and then went on to Las Vegas....

Bilbo Dec 18, 2011 10:04 PM

Thank you - that's the Guy Mcafee - also known as the Al Capone of LA - are you aware of any photos/pictures of his address ?:cheers:

GaylordWilshire Dec 19, 2011 12:57 AM

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-m...2520PM.bmp.jpgLAPL

This is NOT 121 Fremont Place West... it's McAfee's house in Beverly Hills in 1950 after a fire. (Search for "mcafee" at http://photos.lapl.org/carlweb/jsp/photosearchADV.jsp? and you'll find more pics of this house.)


McAfee rented 121 Fremont Place and then 98 Fremont Place...see http://fremontplace.blogspot.com/

ethereal_reality Dec 19, 2011 4:20 AM

Tourist slides from 1952.



below: Busy street scene on Broadway (downtown).

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5...yslide1953.jpg
ebay



below: The beautiful Ambassador Hotel on Wilshire Boulevard (demolished in 2005 by the Los Angeles Unified School District)
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/6...bassador19.jpg
ebay






below: A great view of the 'New Chinatown' on North Broadway with mountains in the background.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8212/...inatown195.jpg
ebay





below: I find this one the most interesting.
It's a rather odd composition with the Hall of Justice on the right.



http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5...desnap1952.jpg
ebay

______

ethereal_reality Dec 19, 2011 4:36 AM

An aerial view of Los Angeles.


http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4...ewaypchuge.jpg
found on ebay


____

ethereal_reality Dec 19, 2011 4:59 AM

A rare daytime slide of Clifton's South Seas Cafeteria at 618 S. Olive Street (dated 1960).


http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6...seas1960li.jpg
tourist slide found on ebay







below: Thankfully it was much more impressive at night! The greenish area in the center is a waterfall surrounded by flowing LAVA!

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7...seasnoirwi.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edge_an...ar/5529415556/








http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1...on618olive.jpg
http://www.cliftonscafeteria.com/pag...eas_frame.html





A color view of the interior.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8...ncolorlapl.jpg
LAPL




_____

ethereal_reality Dec 19, 2011 5:58 AM

More interiors of Cliftons' 'South Seas'...this time in black and white. Courtesy of the Los Angeles Public Library.




http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9...ressivelap.jpg
LAPL



http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/327...teriorpalm.jpg
LAPL





http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/992...n21945lapl.jpg
LAPL



below: At least this one is somewhat tasteful.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/6...tonin11945.jpg
LAPL

ethereal_reality Dec 19, 2011 6:03 AM

Before Cliftons' 'South Seas' it was Boos Bros. Cafeteria
In this view you are looking north on Olive Street from 7th in 1930.



http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4...rwasboosbr.jpg
LAPL

FredH Dec 19, 2011 6:24 AM

:previous:

Boy, I loved those Clifton's shots! I thought it was all in good taste...but I grew up in Cleveland, so what do I know.

:dancing:

ethereal_reality Dec 19, 2011 6:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5520758)
The Scarff St. Teed house fully cleaned/painted this last month with all trees neatly trimmed and sod laid down-it is 3 lots above where I volunteer Saturdays @ OneArchives

Thank you for volunteering Rick_M.

FredH Dec 19, 2011 6:52 AM

Teed Street Obsession
 
O.K., let me get this out of my system

Look at the house on Teed Street right in the middle of the picture

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg684...jpg&res=medium
Los Angeles, California, 1894. Drawn & lithographed by B. W. Pierce.

Looks like the J.W. Robinson mansion


Now lets go back a little:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg221...jpg&res=medium
Los Angeles, California, 1894. Drawn & lithographed by B. W. Pierce.

The street that runs right under the mansion is Belle Vue

Now in 1909:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg502...jpg&res=medium
Los Angeles 1909. Compiled by Worthington Gates. Western Litho Co.

It looks like Belle Vue has been changed to Sunset

So, the mansion being located at the corner of Teed and Belle Vue makes sense.

One more:

Could this be where Teed Street used to come out on Ord Street?

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg207...jpg&res=medium
Google Street View

O.K. that's it... :whip::slob: I deserve it

3940dxer Dec 19, 2011 7:35 AM

http://wwww.dkse.net/david/Mcafee.jpg
L.A. Times May 16, 1941

安二郎andini Dec 19, 2011 7:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredH (Post 5513132)
I enjoyed your screen shots of Little Tokyo. I spent almost 20 years working in the area, so I am pretty familiar with it.
Here is a "before and after" of one of your screen shots, using Google Street View:

Before, Weller Street:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg215...png&res=medium
The Crimson Kimono

Now, Astronaut Ellison S. Onizuka Street:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg683...jpg&res=medium
Google Street View

Mr. Onizuka was killed in the space shuttle Challenger accident and the street was renamed in his honor.
You can see a replica of the space shuttle at the other end of the street.

The Nisei Week Festival noted on the banner in the screen shot is still held every year, by the way:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg221...jpg&res=medium
mymodernmet.com

Hey! If they're serving Kirin, I'm there. :cheers:

Thanks for the pics, FredH!
Glad you enjoyed the Crimson Kimono shots!

Bilbo Dec 19, 2011 11:49 AM

thanks 3940dxer for the Mcafee clip - I am surprised anyone noticed - I thought his nose always looked like that !!

GaylordWilshire Dec 19, 2011 1:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5520758)
The Scarff St. Teed house fully cleaned/painted this last month with all trees neatly trimmed and sod laid down-it is 3 lots above where I volunteer Saturdays @ OneArchives

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5521518)
Thank you for volunteering Rick_M.

I second that emotion, Rick, re OneArchives. I keep a file on each house I find reference to on Adams Boulevard, demolished and extant, from about Main Street west. One corner that has always proven elusive photographically is the northwest of Adams and Scarff.... The insurance maps I've seen indicate a small house or structure set well back from Adams, apparently built sometime after 1909. There are some photos of small houses from various sources that are possibilties, but I've never seen anything definitive. Now I know you don't spend your Sunday volunteer time at OneArchive doing urban archaeology--and not that I think you'd be able to turn up any evidence of the former occupant of the site there--but maybe one Sunday you could catch a cellphone shot of the newly denuded Teed house on Scarff for us....

GaylordWilshire Dec 19, 2011 1:47 PM

The contagious Teed Street Obsession
 
As for the Robinson house on Teed Street... I can't let go.... Here is an 1891 aerial map. (It depicts the house in the few years between
Robinson and Ford versions, as FredH's 1894 map appears to show the latter's round turret--see bottom pic here.)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-C...eredcircle.jpgHistoric Map Works
Also notice some of the old street names--Montreal, Philadelphia, etc.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T...mapdetail3.jpgHistoric Map Works


And...
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5519651)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G...obinson200.jpgLATFeb 7, 1892
Now, where is Rosas Street?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredH (Post 5521525)

Thank you FredH--now we've found Rosas Street. Looks like it eventually became N. Hill Place.

Los Angeles Past Dec 19, 2011 7:26 PM

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...existscopy.jpg

The line on the map for Teed St. appears to be dotted. This suggests to me that at some point in the past, its legal status was changed from a public road to a private easement. It may be that underground utilities still exist along the old right of way, and an exclusive easement was created to maintain DWP access to them after the adjacent properties were redeveloped.

-Scott

westcork Dec 19, 2011 7:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5521642)
As for the Robinson house on Teed Street... I can't let go.... Here is an 1891 aerial map. (It depicts the house in the few years between
Robinson and Ford versions, as FredH's 1894 map appears to show the latter's round turret--see bottom pic here.)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-C...eredcircle.jpgHistoric Map Works
Also notice some of the old street names--Montreal, Philadelphia, etc.

What is that diamond shaped object near Temple and Custer?

GaylordWilshire Dec 19, 2011 8:33 PM

:previous:

It's either someone's garden maze or the portal to the underground space station in 2001: A Space Odyssey. Very strange.

ethereal_reality Dec 19, 2011 9:15 PM

A baseball diamond for giants.

ethereal_reality Dec 19, 2011 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredH (Post 5470830)
I just found this great shot of the Clover Trailer Park from the movie Cry Danger. The caption reads: Dick Powell, Richard Erdman, and Jean Porter wait between shots.

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8257/clover10.jpg
www.electricearl.com
Courtesy of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences

Check out the great old house across the street, just loaded down with gawkers.

The old tires leaning up against the fence railing add a real touch of class to the place! :cheers:


I somehow missed this great photo & post the first time around. I had to laugh out loud at the house "loaded with gawkers".
I never would have noticed them without you pointing it out.

_________

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2763/70077099.jpg





This is the house FredH highlighted above. It is the only house in the area that could be a contemporary to the J.W. Robinson House.


http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/7...acouldbeco.jpg
google street view








Most of the area is full of horrific buildings like this. This is just across the street (to the west) from where the J.W. Robinson house once stood. :(

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/922...eatodaysad.jpg
google street view

It's hard to imagine this area was once bucolic hills dotted with stately homes.

_____


I wish someone who has a copy of 'Cry Danger' would download the drive up to the Clover Trailer Park. After all this J.W. Robinson talk I'm dying to see what this area looked like in the 1940s.

_____

ethereal_reality Dec 19, 2011 10:27 PM

The 1909 map posted earlier by FredH.
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7290/jwmap1909.jpg

above: It looks as if Ord Street used to continue up to Hill Street (now North Hill Place) instead of taking that severe right turn.




below: The view today with the missing segment of Ord Street.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/474/jwordturn.jpg
google street view



...and it looks like there might have been stairs at one point as well. Did these stairs parallel Ord at this steep grade?
(if you look closely there are three or four 'stepped' stones just this side of the more solid line)


http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6744/...ac2oldstep.jpg
google street view

....of course it could just be a property line, but that isn't nearly as interesting. ;)




below: The Ord Street Turn.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8099/jwordturng.jpg
google street view

GaylordWilshire Dec 19, 2011 11:07 PM

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics25/00047296.jpgLAPL

A member of the Junior League doing her volunteer work: she's apparently taking handicapped children for
a ride in her chauffeur-driven car, perhaps to the Junior League Home for Convalescent Children located
at 1153 N. Westmoreland Avenue--now the site of a school.

FredH Dec 20, 2011 2:06 AM

Cry Dander (1951)
 
etheral_reality:

That area where Ord Street extends up the hill is exactly where the Clover Trailer Park was located in the 1951 movie.

Here are screen shots of North Hill Place from Cry Danger. Unfortunately, all the shots were taken from across the street,
so you cannot see the houses on that side.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg64/...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg3/s...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg824...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

I think as ratty as that house across the street (the one with the gawkers) looked in 1951, it is probably long gone.


As long as I am started on Cry Danger, here are some more screen shots:

Dick Powell and Rhonda Fleming drive past a gas holder...just for our enjoyment:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg444...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

Third Street, up on Bunker Hill:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg213...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

The Los Amigos bar, directly across the street from the Angel's Flight station on Olive Street:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg408...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

Across Third Street from the Los Amigos is the Angel's Flight Cafe:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg860...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

The Angel's Flight Cafe was one of the main settings in the 1965 movie called Angel's Flight, staring Indus Arthur and
William Thourlby (the original Marlboro Man). This movie took place in the dying years of Bunker Hill and may have never made it to the theaters.

The Angel's Flight Cafe (sorry about the crappy image):

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg221...jpg&res=medium
Angel's Flight (1965), produced by John Bushelman

ethereal_reality Dec 20, 2011 2:45 AM

FredH this is exactly what I wanted to see!! (not the other side of the street)
I had no idea this house actually appears in 'Cry Danger'. I only mentioned it because of its age.



http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/7...acouldbeco.jpg
google street view

You can see the house in the three scenes below.


Quote:

Originally Posted by FredH (Post 5522407)
etheral_reality:

That area where Ord Street extends up the hill is exactly where the Clover Trailer Park was located in the 1951 movie.

Here are screen shots of North Hill Place from Cry Danger. Unfortunately, all the shots were taken from across the street,
so you cannot see the houses on that side.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg64/...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg3/s...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg824...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

So I take it you knew all along that this house appears in the film FredH? I had NO idea since I haven't seen 'Cry Danger'.
It's so great to see a connection with a film noir from 60 years ago!! I would rent this place out in a minute.

_______

rick m Dec 20, 2011 3:29 AM

Gaylord W.- If you can attend our 60th anniversary event @ One in mid 2012 you'll get to see a 3 x 4 W.Adams map I recently whipped up featuring all the homes (and school and church) that comprised the street from Figueroa to Hoover -- including the Tudor built in 1909 by the De Camps -later held by the socializing Chester Brown family. In the 30s, #909 became (with its large gardens) the home of the USC sorority Alpha Delta Pi - by WW2 the Delta Tau Delta frat owned this property and either burnt the home down or raised funds to build the brick edifice as a replacement frathouse -- which today is where the One Archives exists. A grainy photo from L.A.Times archives (Aug 1, 1909) is all I've found. Contacting current sorority leadership hasn't produced a reply- surely they have preserved photo albums- not like the Delts who were banned from USC after a MAJOR "Animal House" period in the early 70s.Bad boys don't care for such history! .. The DeCamps probably first lived here in a smaller Queen Anne but got into the Tudor style when chafing over the old Victorian... I will soon shoot the Teed house---

FredH Dec 20, 2011 4:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcork (Post 5521980)
What is that diamond shaped object near Temple and Custer?


Up close, it's either a baseball field or a giant fenced-in picture frame.

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/2967/squarep.jpg
Southern California Land Co., 1891
:shrug:

ethereal_reality Dec 20, 2011 4:33 AM

The lobby of the Halifax Apartments at 6376 Yucca Street.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/1065/halifaxpc.jpg
ebay





http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/6...axhugeebay.jpg
ebay



http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/151/halifax1r.jpg
ebay detail





below: The Halifax Apartments as seen today. This view is looking south on Cahuenga Boulevard with Yucca as the cross street.


http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/301...ccastatcah.jpg
google street view




At far left you can see the iconic Capitol Records Building on Vine Street just above Hollywood Boulevard.

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/2...ifax6376y2.jpg
google street view

As always, I love the old sign on top of the apartment building.

____

FredH Dec 20, 2011 4:46 AM

Cry Danger Houses
 
etheral_reality:

You are correct. The house you found on Google Street view is the house that was in the movie. It was the office for the trailer park.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/7...acouldbeco.jpg
Google Street View

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg3/s...jpg&res=medium
Cry Danger, RKO Radio Pictures

The house across the street...

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg809...jpg&res=medium
ElectricEarl.com

...has been torn down. And, as you had surmised, has been replaced by some crappy apartments:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg716...jpg&res=medium
Google Street View

Nice landscaping! :yuck:

ethereal_reality Dec 20, 2011 4:50 AM

:previous: Thanks FredH. :)

____


A fantastic postcard of 'Little Tokyo' in 1935.


http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/3...etokyo1935.jpg
found on ebay

ethereal_reality Dec 20, 2011 5:50 AM

I came across this photograph on an old CD of mine from 2008 (a year before I started this thread).
The only information I had for it was "a residence in Los Angeles".

At first I thought it was one of my ebay photos due to the watermark that is visible just to the right of the house.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7...ngeles2008.jpg
unknown


But after a closer inspection I realized the watermark wasn't a watermark at all!! It was the backside of the giant 'It's in the Examiner' sign!


http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4...ilosb2sign.jpg
LAPL detail


So where would that put this house......on a street above North Broadway several blocks in?

__________

FredH Dec 20, 2011 6:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5522576)
:previous: Thanks FredH. :)

____


A fantastic postcard of 'Little Tokyo' in 1935.


http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/3...etokyo1935.jpg
found on ebay

Nice postcard!
I think it is Weller Street, now Astronaut E.S. Onizuka Street

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5117/wellerk.jpg
Google Street View

malumot Dec 20, 2011 7:16 AM

Thx Fred.....

75 years of "Modernization" turned Weller from a perfectly interesting streetscape to a bland, soul-less and deserted ravine of uniform concrete.

Well done, Los Angeles. Well done, Urban planners.

And while Mr Onizuka should certainly be given his due, "Astronaut Ellison S. Onizuka Street" hardly rolls off the tongue. Let alone fits on the back of a post card.



Quote:

Originally Posted by FredH (Post 5522630)
Nice postcard!
I think it is Weller Street, now Astronaut E.S. Onizuka Street

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5117/wellerk.jpg
Google Street View


GaylordWilshire Dec 20, 2011 2:31 PM

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-P...520LAT8109.jpgLAT

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5522495)
Gaylord W.- If you can attend our 60th anniversary event @ One in mid 2012 you'll get to see a 3 x 4 W.Adams map I recently whipped up featuring all the homes (and school and church) that comprised the street from Figueroa to Hoover -- including the Tudor built in 1909 by the De Camps -later held by the socializing Chester Brown family. In the 30s, #909 became (with its large gardens) the home of the USC sorority Alpha Delta Pi - by WW2 the Delta Tau Delta frat owned this property and either burnt the home down or raised funds to build the brick edifice as a replacement frathouse -- which today is where the One Archives exists. A grainy photo from L.A.Times archives (Aug 1, 1909) is all I've found. Contacting current sorority leadership hasn't produced a reply- surely they have preserved photo albums- not like the Delts who were banned from USC after a MAJOR "Animal House" period in the early 70s.Bad boys don't care for such history! .. The DeCamps probably first lived here in a smaller Queen Anne but got into the Tudor style when chafing over the old Victorian... I will soon shoot the Teed house---


This clears up some of my confusion--I knew that Clarence De Camp (he was in lumber) had built 919--the 909/919 addresses have long confused me, but now I'm realizing that 919 was mid-block, more or less across the street from southbound Portland Street (corner of the Curse of the Cat People Waters house at 900) and not closer to Scarff (more or less at the point where OneArchives's brick wall meets the Page fence of the parking lot), and that the Newton house, later the Lambda Chi Alpha house at 931 was on the ne corner of Thompson where the apartments are now. Through the years, of course, there was lots of demolition and lot rejiggering. The addresses 919 and 931 were still extant in 1960 with the frats in residence, but by 1969 there was no 919 and the ΔTΔ's were occupying 909--so maybe the new structure OneArchives is now in was built by then. The old ΛXA house seems to have been gone by then too. And I've GOT to see your map....


UPDATE: For the full history of 919, including its rabbits, see https://adamsboulevardlosangeles.blo...ease-also.html

3940dxer Dec 20, 2011 3:50 PM

Barney's Beanery
 
I've now read this whole thread so I'm caught up. I'm a bit sad because I've lost what, a month ago, seemed like a limitless supply of great photos and history. The good part is that now I can contribute without being too redundant.

One topic I've had in mind has been Barney's Beanery in West Hollywood. Barney's began in Berkeley, but in 1927 moved to its current location at 8446 Santa Monica Blvd. (once a part of Route 66).

In the 1970's when I lived on Flores St., Barney's was just a couple blocks away and I became a bit of a regular. With its pool tables and jukebox it was a great place for a late night burger & beer, though the waitresses weren't very cheerful and generally forgot half of your order. I had a love-hate relationship with this place. Sometimes it was really annoying but the burgers were good and hey, I got them to put Werewolves Of London on the jukebox. The wooden walls and partitions were stained by decades of cigarette smoke, the bar was covered in old license plates before they became a diner cliche. At times it had a slightly dangerous vibe. Along the east side of the building was the bar, and you couldn't miss the old sign, prominently posted among the bottles that read FAGOTS-STAY OUT. The red matchbooks had the same slogan.

It seemed strange and confusing because West Hollywood was heavily gay, and Barney's was like the Cantina in Star Wars, you never know who would walk in the door next. There were bikers, business men, actors, hippies, hookers, soul brothers, lost souls, hipsters, old timers, tourists. There were gay patrons too, and they seemed perfectly comfortable. It seemed the sign was not a statement of policy, but an artifact whose history was mysterious, at least to me. I think there were one or two old newspaper articles posted somewhere, but I never "got" what the sign represented until I came across an article that explained the history of Barney's. I can't find it now, but...

From Wiki:
"Barney's location combined with fact that the owner was apt to extend credit and occasionally give away food made the bar popular with people from all walks of life including artists, writers, and other celebrities. Old Hollywood actors like Clara Bow, Clark Gable, Errol Flynn, Judy Garland, and Rita Hayworth were all regulars in their day. By the 1960s the neighboring Sunset Strip had become an important music center and Jim Morrison (who was reportedly thrown out of Barney's for urinating on the bar) and Janis Joplin (who had drinks at Barney's the evening of her death) became regulars. Poet Charles Bukowski lurked around, as did artists Ed Kienholz and others associated with the Ferus Gallery that was located nearby on La Cienega Boulevard."

Some snippets from Barney's long, strangely written history page:

"...Barney's Beanery took root in Berkeley, California. An L.A. native, John "Barney" Anthony attended U.C. Berkeley and enlisted in the Navy during World War I, serving his special blend of chili burgers and onion soup to soldiers...He opened his first Beanery, for men only, in 1920...moving to the current location in 1927.

...The area surrounding Barney's Beanery was primarily a huge Poinsettia field...Discarded license plates above the bar were left by travelers, who came out to California to find a better life...In 1945, Hollywood Nightlife magazine noted the way in which Barney treated his customers, as if they were buddies from the service. "Barney Anthony is a name known to most writers who at one time or another have been broke in this town. Barney has always made sure that they have had food and just a little cash to tide them over."

...In 1942 Rob Wagner's described it as "...a little wooden shanty, with a whole row of cheap floor lamps illuminating the counter, and a dinky little bar down at one end." The Herald called it "a shack, on Santa Monica Boulevard near La Cienega, which has not greatly changed since I dropped in there one afternoon in 1929 for a hamburger and root beer."

...In the fifties...the old-fashioned coach lamp hanging in front of Barney's Beanery has a gadget inside it installed by a radionics inventor from U.S.C." reported Bill Kennedy in his Mr. L.A. column in a '55 issue of the Herald-Examiner. "Operating like a radio-controlled garage door, the coach lamp is able to pick up radio beam signals from as far away as 25 miles. By prearranged signals, messages flashed from a unit installed on a patron's car can inform Barney just how many will be in the party, what they want to order, and how soon they'll arrive. Among the celebrities who have installed a Beanery Beam are Lou Costello, Wayne Morris, Donald O'Connor, George Gobel, Otto Kreuger and Gloria Jean."*

...Frequented by beatniks, rockin' teens and the likes of Charles Bukowski, the aging Barney showed his impatience with the homosexual element that came with bohemian culture. This was first pointed out by a 1958 Torch Reporter column titled "Barney's Unique Signs" that read "unique indeed - Bold, Black Letters on a Dusty Pink background read 'FAGOTS - STAY OUT' over the bar." It was an issue that was not soon forgotten, though one account in The Los Angeles Times seemed to deflate its importance. "Nobody ever paid much attention to it" claimed David Barry in 1977. "Barney's always had a regular gay clientele but it's not a pickup joint. In the old, crazier days the sign was a joke to a clientele in such advanced stages of social decay that gender seemed an unnecessarily picky distinction."

By 1965... nearby Sunset Strip was again the center of the action...Barney's Beanery was a natural magnet for people involved with the new scene...Marlon Brando to Jack Nicholson had gravitated to the art, jazz and rock 'n' roll scenes, and frequented Barney's...Two of the main figureheads from Los Angeles and San Francisco, Jim Morrison of the Doors and Janis Joplin of Big Brother & the Holding Company, respectively, became the celebrities most associated with consistent patronage of Barney's Beanery. Janis had a favorite booth; #34. Morrison had a penchant for teasing Joplin, and one incident commonly recalled is a catfight between the two, with the bawdy Joplin successfully belting the playfully demonic Morrison.

...In 1964, a Life magazine story on the emergence of the gay culture in public had featured a steadfast Barney posing in front of his sign. By the end of the decade, Erwin Held** had acquired the restaurant from the estate of Barney C. Anthony, who had passed away on November 25th, 1968. Erwin contested that he wanted to keep the place close to original, as he had obtained it...but on Saturday, February 7th, 1970, the Gay Liberation Front and other concerned organizations began picketing in front of Barney's Beanery, to have the "FAGOTS - STAY OUT" sign removed from the bar...he offending sign was removed in the mid-seventies and relocated to its current place in storage."
http://barneysbeanery.com/stories/history.php


*As an electronics engineer specializing in older technology, I doubt this system worked, or worked for very long.
** Erwin Held was an obnoxious ass. A friend once got his cheeseburger without cheese, and paid the bill minus the extra 75 cents. Erwin called the cops on him and there was a big scene in the parking lot. I found him extremely unpleasant, and liked Barney's a lot more when he wasn't around.

As to the infamous sign, I think went up and down a few times over the years, and might have been replaced with a new version at some point. Rev. Troy Perry of The Metropolitan Community Church told the L.A. Times "We started picketing the restaurant in 1970, and on March 12, he said he would take the sign down, but then he put up more signs and had matchbooks [with those words on it] made." I think the sign ended up a museum piece at West Hollywood City Hall, though Erwin probably longed for the days when it was posted and enforced. :shrug: I last ate there about 8 years ago. Erwin's gone and the place has changed hands once or twice. The current owners have morphed Barney's into a kind of diluted sports bar/diner franchise. Now there's even a Barney's in Burbank where I live. It's in the "date night" district, near the new movie theaters and cafes. But going there would sees a hollow experience compared to the old Barney's -- even though it sucked sometimes.


Barney's in 1949
http://wwww.dkse.net/david/Barney%27...ery%201949.jpg
http://www.hollywoodhistoricphotos.com/


Barney's today
http://wwww.dkse.net/david/barneys.now2.jpg
Google Street View


Barney's as seen through the eyes of R. Crumb on the Janis Joplin Cheap Thrills album cover
http://wwww.dkse.net/david/CheapThrillsBarneys3.jpg

And finally, Barney with his infamous sign, and a shocking quote not mentioned in any of the histories that I've seen. Yeah, he was a real sweetheart!
http://wwww.dkse.net/david/Barneys.Life2..jpg
Life Magazine June 26, 1964, Homosexuality In America

FredH Dec 20, 2011 4:29 PM

Hollywood gazes into the future and sees skyscrapers
 
The Planning Commission is going after Hollywood now:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6746/66882560.jpg
Los Angeles Times

Story here:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,3388358.story

GaylordWilshire Dec 20, 2011 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3940dxer (Post 5522875)
http://wwww.dkse.net/david/Barneys.Life2..jpg
Life Magazine June 26, 1964, Homosexuality In America

It's always good to be reminded that it was the architecture and scale of old L.A. that causes us to wax nostalgic. There will always be those who feel disenfranchised by the relentless coming of the present and future--modern day Barney Anthonys--and I do think it's too bad that Los Angeles seems hell-bent on becoming Manhattan, as delineated in the Times article FredH has pointed out--but reminders of unhappy old coots like Barney do make it easier to accept that we really have little choice whether we live in the hideous aesthetics of the present or not. I do love ugly old Barney, who needn't worry a bit, warning that "They'll approach any nice-looking guy." Colorful, but can't say much missed.

Fab Fifties Fan Dec 20, 2011 7:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3940dxer (Post 5522875)
I've now read the whole Noir thread and am officially caught up. I'm a bit sad about it, because I've lost what, a month ago, seemed like a limitless supply of great photos and L.A. history. The good news is that I now know what I can contribute, without being redundant.

One topic I've had in mind has been Barney's Beanery in West Hollywood. Barney's began in Berkeley, but in 1927 moved to its current location at 8446 Santa Monica Blvd. (once a part of Route 66).

In the 1970's when I lived on nearby Flores St., Barney's was just a couple blocks away and I became a bit of a regular. With its pool tables and great jukebox it was a great place for a late night burger & beer, though the waitresses weren't very cheerful and generally forgot half of your order. I had a love-hate relationship with this place. Sometimes it was really annoying but the burgers were good and hey, in '78 I persuaded them to put Werewolves Of London on the jukebox. The wooden walls and partitions were stained by decades of cigarette and the bar was decorated in old license plates before they became a diner cliche. At times it had a slightly dangerous vibe. Along the east side of the building was the bar, and inside there you couldn't miss the old sign, prominently posted among the bottles that read FAGOTS-STAY OUT. The red matchbooks they gave out had the same slogan.

It seemed ironic and confusing because West Hollywood was heavily gay, and Barney's was a like the Cantina in Star Wars -- you really never know who might walk in the door. There were bikers, business men, actors, hippies, hookers, soul brothers, lost souls, hipsters, old timers, tourists. There were gay patrons too, and they seemed perfectly comfortable. Obviously the sign was not a statement of policy, but rather an artifact whose history was mysterious, at least to me. I think there were one or two old newspaper articles posted somewhere, but I never "got" what the sign represented, until I came across an article that explained the history of Barney's. I can't find it now, but...

From Wiki:
"Barney's location combined with fact that the owner was apt to extend credit and occasionally give away food made the bar popular with people from all walks of life including artists, writers, and other celebrities. Old Hollywood actors like Clara Bow, Clark Gable, Errol Flynn, Judy Garland, and Rita Hayworth were all regulars in their day. By the 1960s the neighboring Sunset Strip had become an important music center and Jim Morrison (who was reportedly thrown out of Barney's for urinating on the bar) and Janis Joplin (who had drinks at Barney's the evening of her death) became regulars. Poet Charles Bukowski lurked around, as did artists Ed Kienholz and others associated with the Ferus Gallery that was located nearby on La Cienega Boulevard."

Some snippets from Barney's long, strangely written history page:

"...Barney's Beanery took root in Berkeley, California. An L.A. native, John "Barney" Anthony attended U.C. Berkeley and enlisted in the Navy during World War I, serving his special blend of chili burgers and onion soup to soldiers...He opened his first Beanery, for men only, in 1920...moving to the current location in 1927.

...The area surrounding Barney's Beanery was primarily a huge Poinsettia field... "Discarded license plates above the bar were left by travelers, who came out to California to find a better life" claims Lauren Taines. "Their symbolic gesture was to leave the original plates of their home state behind at the diner."...In 1945, Hollywood Nightlife magazine noted the way in which Barney treated his customers, as if they were buddies from the service. "Barney Anthony is a name known to most writers who at one time or another have been broke in this town. Barney has always made sure that they have had food and just a little cash to tide them over."

...A 1942 description in Rob Wagner's Script describes it as "...a little wooden shanty, with a whole row of cheap floor lamps illuminating the counter, and a dinky little bar down at one end." The Herald called it "a shack, on Santa Monica Boulevard near La Cienega, which has not greatly changed since I dropped in there one afternoon in 1929 for a hamburger and root beer."

...In the fifties...the old-fashioned coach lamp hanging in front of Barney's Beanery has a gadget inside it installed by a radionics inventor from U.S.C." reported Bill Kennedy in his Mr. L.A. column in a '55 issue of the Herald-Examiner. "Operating like a radio-controlled garage door, the coach lamp is able to pick up radio beam signals from as far away as 25 miles. By prearranged signals, messages flashed from a unit installed on a patron's car can inform Barney just how many will be in the party, what they want to order, and how soon they'll arrive. Among the celebrities who have installed a Beanery Beam are Lou Costello, Wayne Morris, Donald O'Connor, George Gobel, Otto Kreuger and Gloria Jean."*

...Frequented by beatniks, rockin' teens and the likes of Charles Bukowski, the aging Barney showed his impatience with the homosexual element that came with bohemian culture. This was first pointed out by a 1958 Torch Reporter column titled "Barney's Unique Signs" that read "unique indeed - Bold, Black Letters on a Dusty Pink background read 'FAGOTS - STAY OUT' over the bar." It was an issue that was not soon forgotten, though one account in The Los Angeles Times seemed to deflate its importance. "Nobody ever paid much attention to it" claimed David Barry in 1977. "Barney's always had a regular gay clientele but it's not a pickup joint. In the old, crazier days the sign was a joke to a clientele in such advanced stages of social decay that gender seemed an unnecessarily picky distinction."

By 1965... nearby Sunset Strip was again the center of the action...Barney's Beanery was a natural magnet for people involved with the new scene...Marlon Brando to Jack Nicholson had gravitated to the art, jazz and rock 'n' roll scenes, and frequented Barney's...Two of the main figureheads from Los Angeles and San Francisco, Jim Morrison of the Doors and Janis Joplin of Big Brother & the Holding Company, respectively, became the celebrities most associated with consistent patronage of Barney's Beanery. Janis had a favorite booth; #34. Morrison had a penchant for teasing Joplin, and one incident commonly recalled is a catfight between the two, with the bawdy Joplin successfully belting the playfully demonic Morrison.

...In 1964, a Life magazine story on the emergence of the gay culture in public had featured a steadfast Barney posing in front of his sign. By the end of the decade, Erwin Held** had acquired the restaurant from the estate of Barney C. Anthony, who had passed away on November 25th, 1968. Erwin contested that he wanted to keep the place close to original, as he had obtained it...but on Saturday, February 7th, 1970, the Gay Liberation Front and other concerned organizations began picketing in front of Barney's Beanery, to have the "FAGOTS - STAY OUT" sign removed from the bar...he offending sign was removed in the mid-seventies and relocated to its current place in storage."

http://barneysbeanery.com/stories/history.php

*As an electronics engineer who well knows older technology, I doubt this system worked, or worked for very long.
** Irwin Held was an obnoxious ass. A friend once got his cheeseburger without cheese, and paid the bill minus the extra 75 cents. Irwin called the cops on him and there was a big scene in the parking lot. I found Irwin extremely unpleasant, and liked Barney's a lot more when he wasn't there.

Actually, I think the sign went up and down a few times over the years, and might have been replaced with a new version at some point. Rev. Troy Perry of The Metropolitan Community Church told the L.A. Times "We started picketing the restaurant in 1970, and on March 12, he said he would take the sign down, but then he put up more signs and had matchbooks [with those words on it] made."

I think the sign wound up at Hollywood City Hall, though Erwin probably longed for the days when it posted and enforced. :shrug: I last ate there about 8 years ago. Erwin's gone and the place has changed hands once or twice. The current owners have morphed Barney's into a kind of diluted sports bar/diner franchise. Now there's even a Barney's in Burbank where I live. It's in the "date night" district, near the new movie theaters and cafes. But going there seems a hollow experience compared to the old Barney's -- even though it sucked sometimes.

And finally, Barney with his infamous sign, and a shocking quote not mentioned in any of the histories that I've seen. Yeah, he was a real sweetheart!
http://wwww.dkse.net/david/Barneys.Life2..jpg
Life Magazine June 26, 1964, Homosexuality In America

Great Post on Barney's Beanery 3940dxer!!!

I can speak from experience about the place. In late 75 or early 76 (sometime during our holiday break from school), a group of us FIDM students got together to attend a play that a schoolmate had designed and built the sets for. After the play, she suggested that we walk the block or so to Barney's becuase they had cheap beer and burgers. None of us had ever heard of the place, so we were game.

There was about 10 or 11 of us, as I remember, and one was a guy from Brazil named Richard (or as he pronounced it, Reechard). Richard was a life of the party young guy who was very animated and flamboyant. We sat down at two tables next to each other and a waitress came by, carded most of us, and then took our order for 2 pitchers of beer. Richard, as usual, started a lively conversation with the waitress and she stood there laughing and joking with all of us.

What seemed like an eternity later, she came back to the table and told us that "Bud" the manager said she couldn't serve us. We demanded to know why and she wouldn't say, she just nodded toward an older man behind the bar. Richard and Michelle (who suggested we go there) turned to face the guy behind the bar and asked for an explanation. He reached down under the bar and brought up the sign. Holding it in front of himself like a banner, he pointed to the sign, then at Richard and said "that's why, go somewhere else".

Richard, with his Brazillian hot temper flaring, went off at the guy in a mixture of portugese and english. You might not have understood him, but you got his point clearly. The old man put the sign down, came out from behind the bar and started menacingly advancing towards Richard. Never one to back down, Richard stood his ground, still letting the old guy have it verbally. Richard was not a big guy at all and the old man got right up in his face telling him that he was going to physically throw him out and beat the crap out of his "faggot ass" in the parking lot. That's where I came in, I'd heard enough!

The old fart must not have been paying attention when we first walked in, but he sure as hell did when I pulled my 6'7" frame out of my chair, pushed Richard out of the way and got in his face. I glared down in to his craggy old face and growled "how's about trying to beat the crap out of my faggot ass old man! Come on, let me drag your boney old ass outside?". The guy practically jumped over the bar trying to get behind it. Once he was securely back there, he yelled that he was calling the cops. We told him don't bother and left. Being 22 and angry as hell, I may have taken a leak in the potted plant out front but, then again, that could just be a vicious rumor:D

So, even though the sign wasn't "posted' during the mid-70's, it was still very close at hand. I personally have never been back to that hell hole and have no plans to either. Just had to comment, thanks again for the post.

~Jon Paul

3940dxer Dec 20, 2011 8:22 PM

Jon Paul, thanks for the feedback and for your own great story. I was a little reluctant about posting this story but it seemed important, and Noirish in its own sad way.

I don't want to sidebar too far into political history, but here are two articles about the final decommissioning of the sign and the "matchbook controversy".

http://wwww.dkse.net/david/GiveUpSign.jpg
L.A. Times Jan. 16 1985

http://wwww.dkse.net/david/Matchbooks.jpg
L.A. Times Jan. 8 1985

ethereal_reality Dec 20, 2011 9:13 PM

Excellent post on Barney's Beanery 3940dxer!!!! You really did your research...bravo to you.

....and Jon Paul...you're 6'7" wow :)

Fab Fifties Fan Dec 20, 2011 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5523427)
Excellent post on Barney's Beanery 3940dxer!!!!!!!! You really did your research...bravo to you.

....and Jon Paul...you're 6'7" wow :)

Yep!

That's why I never looked up at all the beautiful buildings in downtown LA and Hollywood. If I don't look down and in front of me, I tend to walk into and over anyone in in my path. I have, unwillingly, knocked many a short person on their butt over the years. My partner is 6'6", so it can be a stampede when we're walking together;)

~Jon Paul

GaylordWilshire Dec 20, 2011 11:52 PM

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-a...2520AM.bmp.jpgLAPL

ethereal_reality Dec 21, 2011 12:00 AM

An adobe on the east side Castelar Street between Ord and Alpine Street. To the left of the adobe in the far distance you get a glimpse
of some of J.W. Robinson's neighbors atop the hill.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/4...telarstbtw.jpg
LAPL

ethereal_reality Dec 21, 2011 12:26 AM

View south on Castelar Street (now Hill Street) from Bernardo Street before construction of the new thoroughfare, February 13, 1936.
Notice the hilltop mansions in the distance on the right.


http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/5...honcastela.jpg
http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/search...=1324426634656






Castelar Street (now Hill Street) viewed south from Bernardo Street after construction of the new thoroughfare, February 10th, 1938.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5...honcastela.jpg
http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/search...=1324426634656

GaylordWilshire Dec 21, 2011 12:52 AM

http://jpg1.lapl.org/00080/00080156.jpgLAPL

A lovely Angeleno sunbathes on her lawn, Westmoreland Avenue near Beverly Blvd, 1958.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-V...stmore120.jpg]Google Street View

rick m Dec 21, 2011 2:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5522613)
I came across this photograph on an old CD of mine from 2008 (a year before I started this thread).
The only information I had for it was "a residence in Los Angeles".

At first I thought it was one of my ebay photos due to the watermark that is visible just to the right of the house.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7...ngeles2008.jpg
unknown


But after a closer inspection I realized the watermark wasn't a watermark at all!! It was the backside of the giant 'It's in the Examiner' sign!

Hey E.R.! Unknown residence was @ s/e corner of Fort Moore St. and 400 blk of N.Broadway -owner Fred (Milo) Baker of Baker Ironworks- view is to south catching some of "Its In The Examiner" which must've daily vexed Harry Chandler (L A Times) who had family home kittycorner to the Bakers- Area was a limp real estate idea that actually had several other notables residing there- Dr.Bicknell,Dr.Lemoyne Wills,the Hillikers AND stunningly rich Mary Banning-daughter of Phineas -who had the easternmost structure just beyond Harry Chandler.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4...ilosb2sign.jpg
LAPL detail


So where would that put this house......on a street above North Broadway several blocks in?

__________

See my answer above your final question-Oops---Rick M

ethereal_reality Dec 21, 2011 3:16 AM

:previous: That is so great Rick M!! Thanks for finding out the owner and exact location of the house! I really appreciate it.
I am surprised so my notables lived in the same vicinity...I thought they were clustered a bit further south.

____

I googled the new information you gave me and found a couple more photos of the Baker residence.
In the photograph below the Baker residence is the large house on the left. If you look closely you can see a small portion of its onion shaped cupola.

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8036/fortmoore.jpg
http://ahistoricalpanoramaoflosangel...nker-hill.html




http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3003/fredbaker.jpg
http://ahistoricalpanoramaoflosangel...nker-hill.html

Thanks again Rick M!

_____

ethereal_reality Dec 21, 2011 3:59 AM

Eastern Oil Field, looking north from Baker Iron Works, Los Angeles County in 1905.


http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8...rfield1905.jpg
http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/cgi-...36&SIZE=medium


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