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atlantaguy Nov 28, 2013 4:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyscraperfan23 (Post 6355815)
thank you, florida is not california, california is broke, because they spend money that they don't have.

You have absolutely NO idea of what you are talking about. The HSR project that was proposed was all about being a Federal demonstration project. As far as no need, just how recently have you navigated I-4 between Orlando & Tampa?

California will have a surplus this year. Look it up.

Rick Scott is a complete idiot, and is a total disaster as Governor of the 4th largest State in the country.

And AAF is not HSR. It will be faster than Amtrak at about 90 mph and will be successful, but don't kid yourself into thinking this is privately funded HSR. It most certainly is not. It is higher speed rail than we are used to.

electricron Nov 28, 2013 5:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantaguy (Post 6356080)
And AAF is not HSR. It will be faster than Amtrak at about 90 mph and will be successful, but don't kid yourself into thinking this is privately funded HSR. It most certainly is not. It is higher speed rail than we are used to.

Since when has 125 mph train speeds not been considered high speed rail? NEC regionals achieve 125 mph on the speedway in NJ. Acela only achieves 135 mph on the same speedway. Does that 10 mph make that much a difference to you?
125 mph is faster than HSR trains from Chicago to St. Louis, and from Chicago to Detroit. 125 mph is faster than the original Tokyo to Osaka "Bullet" trains, which I believe most would consider the original HSR train. :)
125 mph Orlando to Coco Beach, a distance of ~40 miles
110 mph from Coco Beach to West Palm Beach, a distance of ~124 miles
79 mph West Palm Beach to North Miami, a distance of ~54 miles.
60 mph from North Miami to downtown Miami, a distance of ~11 miles.
Over 2/3rds of the entire route is proposed to be faster than Class 4 tracks will allow.

scalziand Nov 28, 2013 6:02 AM

^Acela goes 150mph in Rhode Island.

eleven=11 Nov 28, 2013 7:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalziand (Post 6356154)
^Acela goes 150mph in Rhode Island.

What about rail travel in Italy...
or Germany or France or Japan or Spain or London England...

atlantaguy Nov 28, 2013 2:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricron (Post 6356127)
Since when has 125 mph train speeds not been considered high speed rail? NEC regionals achieve 125 mph on the speedway in NJ. Acela only achieves 135 mph on the same speedway. Does that 10 mph make that much a difference to you?
125 mph is faster than HSR trains from Chicago to St. Louis, and from Chicago to Detroit. 125 mph is faster than the original Tokyo to Osaka "Bullet" trains, which I believe most would consider the original HSR train. :)
125 mph Orlando to Coco Beach, a distance of ~40 miles
110 mph from Coco Beach to West Palm Beach, a distance of ~124 miles
79 mph West Palm Beach to North Miami, a distance of ~54 miles.
60 mph from North Miami to downtown Miami, a distance of ~11 miles.
Over 2/3rds of the entire route is proposed to be faster than Class 4 tracks will allow.

Thanks for proving my point. These speeds are not true HSR. The proposal that was killed from Orlando to Tampa was HSR. What California wants to do is HSR. The above speeds are not.

Eightball Nov 28, 2013 2:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantaguy (Post 6356080)
You have absolutely NO idea of what you are talking about. The HSR project that was proposed was all about being a Federal demonstration project. As far as no need, just how recently have you navigated I-4 between Orlando & Tampa?

California will have a surplus this year. Look it up.

Rick Scott is a complete idiot, and is a total disaster as Governor of the 4th largest State in the country.

And AAF is not HSR. It will be faster than Amtrak at about 90 mph and will be successful, but don't kid yourself into thinking this is privately funded HSR. It most certainly is not. It is higher speed rail than we are used to.

x1000! :cheers:

Lakelander Nov 30, 2013 2:13 PM

I believe AAF is a more logical step for Florida (operational-wise) than the dead HSR project that would have connected Tampa and Orlando. Nevertheless, Rick Scott screwed this state over big time by rejecting that HSR money. It was a demonstration project being funded by the feds and private companies were willing to operate it on their own dime for the first 30 years. Opportunities like that don't happen every day. Even if it fails after 30 years, that's infrastructure not paid for locally that could have been used for freight and conventional passenger rail movement.

No money was saved on Florida's end, since we can't get the cash back for all the studies. If any thing, we subsidized FECI's decision (all the HSR studies we paid for) to create AAF, which is essentially covers the path of the dead HSR project's phase 2.

Jasonhouse Dec 1, 2013 7:56 AM

Having DT Tampa, Ybor and the cruise terminals directly tied to Disney, OCCC/Seaworld and OIA with a 35-45 minute ride would have been transformative. Especially since the Tampa end was the end with lots of land to develop near the station. Add a station at the Hard Rock Casino (which gets 20,000+ weekday visitors, many of them tourists who drive from Orlando), and ridership would have been plenty.

eleven=11 Dec 1, 2013 9:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse (Post 6358809)
Having DT Tampa, Ybor and the cruise terminals directly tied to Disney, OCCC/Seaworld and OIA with a 35-45 minute ride would have been transformative. Especially since the Tampa end was the end with lots of land to develop near the station. Add a station at the Hard Rock Casino (which gets 20,000+ weekday visitors, many of them tourists who drive from Orlando), and ridership would have been plenty..

I agree. So why is Rick Scott so stupid???

Jasonhouse Dec 1, 2013 2:59 PM

^He's not stupid, he's a self serving asshole.

Busy Bee Dec 1, 2013 4:17 PM

HypotheticAlly speaking, if the Feds resurrected (miracle?) their funding offer to Florida for the original plan, and say Charlie Crist got the governorship back, is the original plan still doable now with FEC in the picture?

Jasonhouse Dec 1, 2013 5:08 PM

Yes, absolutely.

But at the federal level, the Republican HoR would still be a stumbling block. Depending on how it shakes out after 2014, I think a Rep senate filibuster could be broken though.

It's also important to note that Rick Scott has been laying the ground work to fill in the HSR right of way along I-4 with for-profit corporate toll lanes. If reelected, it'll be all but a sure thing.

Lakelander Dec 1, 2013 7:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 6358954)
HypotheticAlly speaking, if the Feds resurrected (miracle?) their funding offer to Florida for the original plan, and say Charlie Crist got the governorship back, is the original plan still doable now with FEC in the picture?

I doubt the feds resurrect the $2 billion gift that was once up on the table but I could see AAF and FECI expanding to Tampa along the I-4 corridor (old HSR project's proposed path).

Lakelander Dec 1, 2013 8:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eleven=11 (Post 6358831)
I agree. So why is Rick Scott so stupid???

He's not stupid. That decision was more about self serving politics than what was best for the state long term. Unfortunately, in this state, there's a lot of money being made off of road building and sprawl.

For example, to make their project a reality, AAF had to agree to pay the Orlando Orange County Expressway Authority millions. Since the Beach Line is a toll road, they were fearful that a successful train would mean less automobile traffic. Without AAF agreeing to subsidize their desired profits, they would have refused to lease ROW for the rail line's extension from the coast to Orlando.

Leo the Dog Dec 1, 2013 9:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantaguy (Post 6356080)
You have absolutely NO idea of what you are talking about. The HSR project that was proposed was all about being a Federal demonstration project. As far as no need, just how recently have you navigated I-4 between Orlando & Tampa?

California will have a surplus this year. Look it up.

Rick Scott is a complete idiot, and is a total disaster as Governor of the 4th largest State in the country.

And AAF is not HSR. It will be faster than Amtrak at about 90 mph and will be successful, but don't kid yourself into thinking this is privately funded HSR. It most certainly is not. It is higher speed rail than we are used to.

True, CA does have a surplus this year however, CA is also in debt at least $132 BILLION, not including billions in liabilities for public pensions and retiree health care benefits. $10 Billion is owed to the Federal Government for unemployment benefits alone.

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/sacrament...-load-132.html

eleven=11 Dec 2, 2013 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 6359226)
True, CA does have a surplus this year however, CA is also in debt at least $132 BILLION, not including billions in liabilities for public pensions and retiree health care benefits. $10 Billion is owed to the Federal Government for unemployment benefits alone.

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/sacrament...-load-132.html

I know this is about the train from Orlando to Miami
also connects to the new Ft laud Wave Train

but what does CA & Arnold The Terminator have to do with
rick scott ??

ardecila Dec 2, 2013 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 6358954)
HypotheticAlly speaking, if the Feds resurrected (miracle?) their funding offer to Florida for the original plan, and say Charlie Crist got the governorship back, is the original plan still doable now with FEC in the picture?

Sure, there's no technical reason why it wouldn't work. It could be structured as a TIFIA loan to AAF rather than a direct grant.

AAF would need local and state assistance to assemble the right-of-way between the airport and the I-4 median, but it's not inconceivable.

N830MH Dec 2, 2013 5:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse (Post 6358911)
^He's not stupid, he's a self serving asshole.

Actually, he lied to all Floridan people, and he didn't telling the truth. He should be removed from the office. He won't be next term. He will not be eligible for next Florida governor. Rick Scott is smartass. He stupid, cheat, steal and etc. I hate Rick Scott.

Good riddance to Rick Scott!!! Get him out of the office now!

Lakelander Dec 12, 2013 1:22 AM

Per the Orlando Business Journal:

Here’s what you can look out for in 2014 with regards to All Aboard Florida:

• The next series of public meetings will take place to get public input on an environmental impact study being done by third-party consultant Vanasse Hangen Brustlin Inc. The first series of meetings was held last spring. See details on that study process here.

http://www.allaboardflorida.com/wp-c...reen-FINAL.pdf

• Once the Federal Railroad Administration receives the study and the public input from the meetings, it can sign off on the project and construction can begin from West Palm Beach to Orlando.

• Infrastructure on the rail project will start, generating temporary 6,600 construction jobs and $400 million worth of construction work will take place in Central Florida.

• Construction to start on the 80-acre vehicle maintenance facility near the Orlando airport, where 80 permanent jobs will be created to manage eight of the rail system’s 10 rail cars.

• A contractor being named to handle the manufacturing of the passenger train cars, known as rolling stock.

Lakelander Feb 13, 2014 10:50 PM

Interesting. AAF and FEC's parent company just acquired downtown Jacksonville's largest hotel for $53 million. Gotta love the name.....Jacksonville Hotel 2014 Purchaser LLC....

Quote:

The sale of the Hyatt Regency Jacksonville Riverfront to a New York investment fund is a good thing for the Downtown hotel market, according to those in the business.

Fortress Investment Group (NYSE: FIG) paid $53 million for the 963-room Hyatt, which also boasts 110,000 square feet of meeting and convention space. Fortress purchased the hotel from the lender that foreclosed on it 2013.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonvi....html?page=all

Quote:

The Hyatt Regency Jacksonville Riverfront Hotel was sold this week for $53 million.

The city’s landmark hotel was purchased Monday by New York-based Jacksonville Hotel 2014 Purchaser LLC, a Fortress Investment Group company.

CapitalSource Bank issued a $34.5 million mortgage on Monday. The deed and mortgage were recorded Wednesday with the Duval County Clerk of
http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542234

It's been long rumored that the service would be extended to Jax, assuming the Miami/Orlando line ends up as a success.

This acquisition is probably totally unrelated with bringing passenger rail back to the old downtown terminal but this hotel is the key to getting the convention center out of the old train station, adjacent to FEC's tracks through downtown.

The Hyatt property has first dibs on the old courthouse site across the street. The old courthouse and its parking lot, are the long rumored site for a new downtown convention center.


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