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-   -   NEW YORK | Hudson Yards; 40 msf of development (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123575)

Roadcruiser1 Dec 9, 2011 4:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Will (Post 5510089)
The lead developer, Related Companies, released a fairly detailed breakdown of the plan for the entire site more than a month ago. It calls for 6 million square feet of office, and 12.87 million square feet total. Their website seems to be down right now, but this is from the .pdf:

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/...relatedcos.png

The floor space for this site is equal to the floor space of the original World Trade Center. That is just so cool.

THE BIG APPLE Dec 9, 2011 4:40 AM

But the old WTC contained around 12 msf of office space. This is office, residential, commercial, and hotel space around 12 msf.

J. Will Dec 9, 2011 4:43 AM

That's what I'm saying.

THE BIG APPLE Dec 9, 2011 4:56 AM

:???:

NYguy Dec 9, 2011 9:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 5509927)
There is no official website for Hudson Yards. It's a neighborhood, not a development. You're referring to the Related website. Related has rights to about 13 million square feet of development, out of the 40 million total. Related is just one of many landowners in the neighborhood.

Right, people (media included) often confuse the Hudson Yards redevelopment plan with the railyards development that is a part of it. The specific Hudson Yards redevelopment plan that was approved by the City covers every thing in the Hudson Yards district from the railyards, to towers like the Girasole and Manhattan West, and the new Hudson Boulevard around which most of the towers will rise.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/hyards/proposal.shtml

http://hydc.org/html/home/home.shtml


http://hydc.org/includes/site_images..._map_large.gif


http://hydc.org/html/home/home.shtml

Quote:

The absence of sites in Midtown Manhattan for large floor-plate office buildings has led many companies to leave the City for larger sites elsewhere in the region. Rezoning would ensure that redevelopment of the area supports the larger goal of keeping New York competitive as a global city for the next several decades. While accommodating approximately 28 million square feet of commercial office growth, the plan also provides for approximately 12.6 million square feet of residential expansion.


http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/hyards/hymain.shtml

Quote:

For centuries, New York has grown to meet the employment and housing needs of its citizens. The foresight of the city’s leaders – exemplified best in Manhattan's grid plan of 1811 and the annexation and consolidation of 1898 – has been matched by private entrepreneurship, especially in the railroads and in the subway systems that reached out from the City's point of origin in Lower Manhattan to the outer boroughs. Over time, in large part because of that confluence of transit lines, the office market settled in Manhattan.

That demand continues – the 2000 Census indicated that over 8 million people now live in New York City, the most in the City’s history. Companies continue to seek out New York City as a place to set up headquarters, the latest example is Bank of America. In the New York region, it is anticipated that there will be the need to accommodate over 440,000 new workers, requiring 111 million square feet of new space by 2025. If Midtown captures near its historical share, 45 million square feet of office space would be needed over the next 20 years. The problem is that there are few sites remaining in Midtown to accommodate new office buildings. Recent studies indicate that at most, there is perhaps room to accommodate only 20 million square feet in Midtown. In a place where dreams and ambitions are limitless, land is not. Manhattan in a few short years will be out of developable land for new office construction.

There is one last frontier available in Manhattan - Hudson Yards, the underutilized area bounded roughly by West 42nd Street and West 30th Street, Eighth Avenue to the Hudson River.


J. Will Dec 11, 2011 10:22 AM

My apologies. I thought people were suggesting there was going to be 40m square feet of development just from 10th Avenue West between 31st and 33rd Streets, which of course is absurd. That would require a site-wide FAR of over 50 by my calculations.

NYguy Jan 4, 2012 11:05 PM

Numbered days for the Javits?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...b43fe476a792c8

NY gov seeks Aqueduct convention center, casinos

By MICHAEL GORMLEY
Jan 4, 2011

Quote:

A privately funded plan to build the world's biggest convention center in New York City with 3,000 hotel rooms and an inside track to expanded gambling got a powerful boost Wednesday from Gov. Andrew Cuomo.

Cuomo pushed for a development company's proposal for Aqueduct racetrack in Queens in his State of the State speech as part of his recommendation to grow gambling in a bid to create jobs and shore up sagging state tax revenues.

The proposed $4 billion, nearly 4 million-square-foot convention center in Queens between New York City's major airports would replace the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in Manhattan. The Javits Center was considered too small almost from the outset and poorly suited for the kind of bold, glitzy convention center that would be appropriate for Manhattan as a world destination; an ongoing expansion project slated for completion next year would increase its size to nearly 900,000 square feet.

"Let's build the largest convention center in the nation, period," Cuomo said.

Reactions from legislative leaders indicated no immediate opposition. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said New York City needs a bigger convention center to draw more visitors. "Aqueduct would probably make a decent location," he said, noting it has the advantage of available land.

The New York Daily News first reported Wednesday the project would be funded by the Genting Group of Malaysia. Genting runs the video slot machine center at Aqueduct.

NYguy Jan 4, 2012 11:20 PM

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...ADQO07SXKX.DTL

Cuomo Calls for Biggest U.S. Convention Center in New York City

Esmé E. Deprez
January 4, 2012

Quote:


New York Governor Andrew Cuomo called for building a 3.8 million-square-foot convention center, the largest in the U.S., in the New York City borough of Queens.

The center, which would be bigger than McCormick Place in Chicago, would be built at Aqueduct Racetrack in a joint venture with the Kuala Lumpur-based gambling company Genting Bhd., Cuomo said today in remarks prepared for his State of the State speech in Albany, the capital. The $4 billion "private investment" would also include as many as 3,000 hotel rooms, he said.

Cuomo, a 54-year-old Democrat beginning his second year, said the center would allow the state to turn the Jacob Javits Convention Center into a mixed-use facility to help revitalize the far west side of Manhattan. The Javits Center is "obsolete and not large enough to be a top-tier competitor in today's marketplace," he said.


_______________________________________________




http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...120109978/1072

Cuomo wants nation's biggest convention center

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...q=100&MaxW=800

By Jeremy Smerd
January 4, 2012

Quote:


Razing the Javits Center would leave a multi-block, $4 billion piece of waterfront property that could be parceled off and developed alongside Related Cos.' planned Hudson Yards project and the redevelopment of the Farley Post Office into Moynihan Station. The redevelopment of Javits will be modeled after Battery Park City, where the state leases the land to developers in exchange for a percentage of their rental income. Revenue for the state would increase along with apartment values.

Economic development officials had considered Willets Point, Queens, a possible site for a new convention center because of its proximity to La Guardia Airport and infrastructure improvements that are already underway. But the Aqueduct Racetrack site in Queens has clear advantages, too: Genting could build a convention center on one story and, perhaps most importantly, finance it.

"Genting Americas is extremely excited about this opportunity to partner with Gov. Cuomo to build the largest convention center in the country,” said Christian Goode, the company's senior vice president for development. “It's a great time to invest and grow in New York, and we are thrilled to be able to play a role in creating jobs and increasing tourism."



______________________________________


http://www.scribd.com/doc/77151117/SOS-Book

(page 9)
Quote:

We Will Master Plan the Javits Convention Center Site

We can then master plan the 18-acre Jacob Javits Convention Center site as a mixed-use facility to revitalize New York City’s West Side. We will follow the highly successful Battery Park City model, which has resulted in housing, hotels, museums, and over 10 million square feet of Class A office space. As part of the redevelopment, we will explore options for serving the needs of smaller and medium sized trade shows at the Javits site or elsewhere onthe West Side of Manhattan. We estimate over $2 billion in private sector development increating a new 21st century neighborhood for the West Side.To put it in perspective, the Javits Center site is larger thanthe World Trade Center and the United Nations. This will complement the development at Hudson Yards andMoynihan Station.


RobertWalpole Jan 5, 2012 2:07 AM

It is mind boggling to think of the sea of supertall structures that this area will have in 20years!

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI...566-326885.jpg
http://www.superstock.com/stock-phot...es/1566-326885

RobertWalpole Jan 5, 2012 12:52 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...come&mg=id-wsj

NY POLITICS
JANUARY 5, 2012
Another New Idea for the Javits Center

By JOSEPH DE AVILA

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's plans to redevelop the West Side facility and build a new convention center in Queens come as the Javits Center is searching for a new chief executive and is completing a $500 million renovation.

Making the announcement in his State of the State address, Mr. Cuomo summed up what critics have said about the state-owned Javits Center for years: It is too small and outdated to host world-class events in the nation's largest city.

"Right now the Jacob Javits Center is not competitive," Mr. Cuomo said, adding that it is smaller than convention centers in cities like Anaheim and Atlanta. "That hurts the New York economy."

Replacing Javits would be what Mr. Cuomo billed as the country's largest convention center, a private venture proposed near the Aqueduct Racetrack and a casino in the South Ozone Park section of Queens. The plan would add the Javits site as another prime parcel of developable land in a fast-growing part of Manhattan near the Related Cos.' Hudson Yards project and Moynihan Station.

Under Mr. Cuomo's plan, the 18-acre Javits Center site would become a mixed-use facility that could include housing, hotels and office space. It would be modeled, Mr. Cuomo said, after the Battery Park City Authority, which signs long-term leases with private developers and provides revenue to the state. Small and midsize conventions could still take place at Javits, while larger shows would happen in Queens. The Cuomo administration estimates that more than $2 billion in private-sector investment would flow into a redeveloped Javits Center.

Carl Loewenson, chairman of the New York Convention Center Operating Corp. that runs the Javits Center, declined to comment on Mr. Cuomo's speech.

Mr. Cuomo's plan is the latest effort by the state to reconfigure the Javits Center, which was built in 1986. Ever since, governors have made halting efforts to expand the center, which is currently in the midst of a $500 million renovation that includes an 80,000-square-foot addition scheduled to be completed in two years.

The Queens convention center proposal—on which Mr. Cuomo's Javits plans hinge—would face significant obstacles.

Malaysian gaming company Genting Americas would have to obtain financing for a 3.8-million-square-foot facility that would cost more than $1 billion at a time when construction loans are hard to get, industry experts said. A Genting subsidiary already runs a casino at the racetrack.

The Queens location could be another hurdle because many tourists prefer to stay in Manhattan with easy access to restaurants and Broadway, said Steven Spinola, president of the Real Estate Board of New York, an industry association.

"Part of the planning will have to be the transportation to get people around the city of New York," Mr. Spinola said. "But if you make it big enough and make it exciting enough, I think you will be able to overcome that."

Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the Aqueduct area would be a "decent location."

"I think all of us agree that we need a bigger convention center," he said. "It would be a great idea to get it done."

Christian Goode, senior vice president of development of Genting Americas, said in a statement: "It's a great time to invest and grow in New York, and we are thrilled to be able to play a role in creating jobs and increasing tourism."

Mr. Cuomo's vision for the Javits Center would open for development a Manhattan parcel of land that the governor said was "larger than the World Trade Center and the United Nations."

"This becomes the biggest development parcel in the city," said Bob Yaro, president of the Regional Plan Association, which had pushed for a similar plan for Javits last year. "It's the opportunity to create a large mixed-use district that would complement the Hudson Yards site."

The proposal comes as the Javits Center has hunted for a new chief executive for several months after its longtime leader Gerald McQueen stepped down last year. Mr. McQueen had been credited for rooting out the mob corruption at the center and helping it turn profits from fiscal year 1997 to 2009.

The center's financial health declined after the 2008-09 recession. Shows have become smaller, and there have been fewer of them as more groups opt for video conferencing instead of traditional conventions, Mr. Loewenson said.

"People have recovered from the shock of the financial crisis, but it's still not back to where it was before 2008," Mr. Loewenson said.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 5, 2012 1:06 PM

Then what was the point of giving Mr. I.M Pei all that hard work in the 70's when you're just going to tear it down. Well more buildings the better (if done right).

yankeesfan1000 Jan 5, 2012 1:44 PM

Thanks for the articles. I can't even begin to imagine how nice that area will be in 20 years if this plan for a new convention center goes through. Seems like it will, the Javits Center was deemed too small basically the day it opened if I'm not mistaken.

NYguy Jan 5, 2012 2:01 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/ny...in-queens.html

A Convention Center at Aqueduct Is Urged

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
January 4, 2012

Quote:

A new 3.8-million-square-foot exhibition hall and hotel at the Aqueduct racetrack in Jamaica, Queens, would free up 18 windswept acres owned by the state overlooking the Hudson River in Midtown Manhattan, a site occupied since the 1980s by the much- maligned Jacob K. Javits Convention Center.

The land could fetch billions of dollars from developers, say state officials, urban planners and real estate executives. That could plug budget gaps and pay for expensive projects, like expanding Pennsylvania Station.

“The Javits site is worth $4 billion,” said Robert Yaro, president of the Regional Plan Association. “You can release that value and use it for the long-term advantage of city and state. All by itself, the convention center in Queens becomes the biggest urban development project in the country.”

After the Javits center is demolished, the state would develop a master plan for housing, hotels and museums on the site, between 34th and 40th Streets and west of 11th Avenue, and sell or lease the land to developers.


THE BIG APPLE Jan 5, 2012 10:00 PM

I don't know why they opened a convention center in Manhattan, yet there isn't a football stadium for either of the two teams, always really surprised me. But in my opinion Manhattan should be mostly BUILDINGS.

NYguy Jan 5, 2012 10:21 PM

NIMBYs already out with ideas of their own for the Javits site...
http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-conten...NA_1420122.pdf

J. Will Jan 5, 2012 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE (Post 5538862)
I don't know why they opened a convention center in Manhattan, yet there isn't a football stadium for either of the two teams, always really surprised me. But in my opinion Manhattan should be mostly BUILDINGS.

Convention centres are buildings. And what's a football stadium got to do with anything?

A city's principal convention centre should be within walking distance of thousands of hotel rooms where the conventioneers will be staying, or at least a VERY short cab or transit ride away. Putting a huge convention centre way the hell out in Queens, miles from where most of the hotels are doesn't make much sense to me.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 6, 2012 4:09 AM

^ I think Manhattan wouldn't mind being one exception, becuause there's just too much demand for buildings. WHY? Money. Why did the old Penn Station get demolished for a new toilet complex? Money. So I would expect the Javits to go but not yet. I think they're still doing an expansion.

Stained Jan 6, 2012 4:36 AM

It makes sense to me to keep some kind of convention center in Manhattan. It is the center of the city and the center of the world. Build one in Queens if you want, but never rule out one in Manhattan. The bigger, the better. With New York, you are always building for years down the road, not just the next year or two. I hope the plans continue for this development though. It is very exciting.

NYC4Life Jan 6, 2012 4:45 AM

With the Javits getting an expansion, it would be foolish to immediately demolish it. The Javits should remain standing and redeveloped to become more modern and large enough to host major events and trade shows. Having to travel to the outskirts of Queens for trade shows is a bit inconvenient unless mass transit is approved. After all, there is nothing wrong with having NYC be the home of two major convention centers. Most tourists to NY almost never venture outside of Manhattan.

NYguy Jan 6, 2012 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC4Life (Post 5539379)
With the Javits getting an expansion, it would be foolish to immediately demolish it.

The current expansion is a minor one. And even with that it will still be under 1 msf. In short, it's a convention center that isn't serving the purpose it was intended to. Now with the redevelopment of the Hudson Yards, that land has become increasingly more valuable, especially as the largest development site in Manhattan. Years ago, it made sense to put it there because nothing was there, but now there is a chance to correct that.

I won't discuss the merits of a convention center in Queens because that's another thread.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 6, 2012 9:32 PM

Then why not put the convention center on the east side, south of the UN, and we got all this extra space then.

Crawford Jan 6, 2012 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE (Post 5540305)
Then why not put the convention center on the east side, south of the UN, and we got all this extra space then.

Because the land in Manhattan is far too valuable for a low-slung convention center.

And that land you're referring to was sold by Con Edison for about $5 billion maybe 10 years ago. Can you imagine what it's worth now?

Why would the state spend billions for Manhattan land (and billions more for construction costs), when it can get a free convention center in Queens?

And pretty much all major global cities have their convention centers outside of the core. London, Paris, Tokyo all have convention centers on the fringe.

Hotels are a non-issue. There are no major hotels close to Javits anyways. Genting plans 3,000 hotel rooms on the Queens site.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 6, 2012 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE (Post 5539352)
^ I think Manhattan wouldn't mind being one exception, becuause there's just too much demand for buildings. WHY? Money. Why did the old Penn Station get demolished for a new toilet complex? Money. So I would expect the Javits to go but not yet. I think they're still doing an expansion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 5540332)
Because the land in Manhattan is far too valuable for a low-slung convention center.

Exactly.

aquablue Jan 7, 2012 4:35 AM

If the LIRR link is opened some day, transit won't be a problem. Also, it is near the airport which is very convenient for visitors arriving for conventions, especially if the rail link is direct from JFK and hotel facilities are built.

Rey88 Jan 7, 2012 1:12 PM

Well, if the Javits will be demolish, i hope for a new super complex project like this:

http://static.flickr.com/69/198571330_a4e0eed66d.jpg

or for a single office/hotel tall tower... :tup:

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/442/nyse1.jpg

Dac150 Jan 8, 2012 5:20 PM

This sounds overly ambitious, however I think that as time progresses and space in Manhattan becomes more scarce, a hulking building such as the Javits Center is almost counter productive as it eats up too much valuable land. A modern convention center located in proximity to JFK would make much more sense IF the proper transportation accommodations were in place. I hope Cuomo remains consistent with this and pushes it through.

NYguy Jan 8, 2012 11:15 PM

http://archpaper.com/news/articles.asp?id=5833

Lucky Seven: New York's 7 line extension steams ahead.

http://archpaper.com/uploads/image/7_subway_01.jpg
Detail of the lower mezzanine's arc.


Jan 7, 2012

Quote:

In the waning days of 2011, Shawn Kildare gave a tour 130 feet below Eleventh Avenue. Kildare, a senior vice president at the MTA, delivered some good news to the small group gawking at the huge caverns carved for the Number 7 Subway Extension. The project, he said, is ten months ahead of schedule and under budget. With the Second Avenue subway progressing in fits and starts, hobbled by community complaints, the new Number 7, which boasts few residential neighbors, looks poised to take the prize as New York’s newest subway exension.

The new station, engineered by Parsons Brinkerhoff, will take one of the system’s busiest train lines from its westernmost terminus at Times Square, to Eleventh Avenue and 34th Street—and perhaps, one day, to New Jersey. The extension may prove a viable alternative to the regional tunnel that New Jersey governor Chris Christie squashed in 2010. As currently planned, the new station will serve the mass-transit-challenged Javits Center and Related Hudson Yards project, to say nothing of Brookfield Properties’ Manhattan West proposal. It will accommodate 25,000 commuters per hour, and an additional six trains added to the line will find room to park and/or maneuver on extra tracks positioned just north and south of the new subway platform.

Along Eleventh Avenue the tunnel dodged Amtrak and Lincoln Tunnel tubes before curving east to meet the existing Number 7 tracks. This meant digging beside the Port Authority Bus Terminal while passengers disembarked 20 feet away. A few blocks west, the sandhogs borrowed beneath the Times Square/Eighth Avenue pedestrian passageway while commuters crisscrossed overhead.


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_04.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_05.jpg
Workers prepare a new communication center beneath Eleventh Ave. as ventilation rises at right.


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_10.jpg
Subgrade work continues for parkland entrance to subway.


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_04.jpg
Two tunnels run east to meet the park entranc


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_01.jpg
Cross section from left to right (west to east) shows tracks and lower mezz, escalators, upper mezz, and park entrance.



More images...

http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_03.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_07.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_02.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_03.jpg

J. Will Jan 9, 2012 12:09 AM

Are the Hudson Yards towers going to have their own entrances to the stations, or will workers have to walk outside just to get to the subway? The pdf brochure they released a few months ago didn't seem to show any entrances from the towers interiors.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 9, 2012 12:20 AM

I think a few will. That's the reason I'm certain the Girasole is delayed, because they have to complete the stations underneath the site. Most of the buildings won't.

scalziand Jan 9, 2012 12:55 AM

The HKNA plan for the Javits site is better than I thought it would be. It restores the street grid to most of the site without cluttering the WSH up with too many intersections, and connecting the whole neighborhood to the waterfront with a bridge over the WSH.

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7359/javitts.png

I do think that it has more green space than necessary though.

Dac150 Jan 9, 2012 12:57 AM

That would really be something - I love the idea of connecting the area with the waterfront.

NYguy Jan 9, 2012 5:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalziand (Post 5542356)
The HKNA plan for the Javits site is better than I thought it would be. It restores the street grid to most of the site without cluttering the WSH up with too many intersections, and connecting the whole neighborhood to the waterfront with a bridge over the WSH.

The problem with that plan is it doesn't include much for office develoment. But when the state does develop a master plan for the site, it will of course include space for office development, similar to the BPC plan. The City is trying to create a new office district in that area. Turning over that much space to primarily residential development would be a mistake. There are few places to expand the commercial districts of Manhattan. Even given the time it will take to develop the existing sites zoned for office in the Hudson Yards, eventually those too will dry up. Meanwhile, residential towers and complexes go up all over Manhattan and the rest of the City. Residential's fine there, at least some. But I wouldn't wanna get carried away with it on that site.

NYguy Jan 9, 2012 7:05 PM

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...301089973/1009

Javits' end promises new dawn for W. Side
Redeveloping the six-block-long property overlooking the Hudson will give a huge boost to efforts
by the government and a growing number of developers to recreate the long-desolate far West Side of Manhattan.



http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...q=100&MaxW=800

By Theresa Agovino
January 8, 2012

Quote:


Even Richard Kahan thinks it's time to demolish the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center—and he built the facility 26 years ago, as head of the Convention Center Development Corp. Mr. Kahan also praises Gov. Andrew Cuomo's proposal to transform the site into a mixed-use development modeled on Battery Park City—a project he also once led as the head of the BPC Authority.

“I don't like seeing my buildings torn down, but a mixed-use project is the highest and best use for that site,” said Mr. Kahan.

Legions of real estate executives agree with him. They say that redeveloping the six-block-long property overlooking the Hudson will give a huge boost to efforts by the government and a growing number of developers to re-create the long-desolate far West Side of Manhattan. The governor's vision of a mix of office buildings, apartment houses, museums and parkland for the 18-acre site would close a key gap.

“It's a great location,” said Douglas Durst, chairman of the Durst Organization, a prominent family development firm. “I'm sure my family would be interested in it.”

The developer with the most at stake is Related. It has several projects under way there. Late last year, Related and partner Oxford announced they would build the site's first tower, a 51-story spire at West 30th Street that will be home for luxury leather-goods maker Coach. To build out the rest of the site, however, the developers must first erect a $1.6 billion platform over the tracks. The timing of the Javits project could be critical for Hudson Yards. If it comes to fruition before Hudson Yards has lined up big tenants, Javits could pose a threat as a cheaper alternative, since it won't require building a pricey platform. On the other hand, if the project takes too long, it could be an eyesore that drags down Hudson Yards' value.

“We look forward to reviewing the details of the proposal, which is even further evidence of the potential of Manhattan's West Side,” said a Related spokeswoman.

599GTO Jan 9, 2012 8:26 PM

So what are the chances of the hideous Javits Center being demolished? Very good?

Please please please make it happen!!!!

Also, 450 West 33rd Street is so disgusting. Any plans to demolish?!

http://s3.amazonaws.com/trd_three/im...articlebox.jpg

scalziand Jan 9, 2012 8:36 PM

The chances of Javits being demolished now or in the imminent future? Very slim.

The chances in a decade or two? Very high.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 9, 2012 10:10 PM

450 West 33rd Street is the Daily News Building, so I wouldn't bet on it being demolished. It's the current headquarters for one of the city's major newspapers. But not as beautiful as their old east side building on 42nd Street.

NYC4Life Jan 11, 2012 10:43 PM

450 West 33rd Street is also the home to WNET Channel 13, highly unlikely this building will be demolished anytime soon.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 11, 2012 10:51 PM

^ That's what I said. It's the headquarters or includes tenants such as the Associated Press, WNET/Channel 13, Lerner New York, Coach, Barney's, and two City of New York agencies, and the Board of Elections and Financial Information Services Agency, and ofcourse the headquarters of the fourth major newspaper in the U.S the Daily News. But I did say it'll be gone in 15-20 years, now that's a guarenDAMNtee.

Dac150 Jan 11, 2012 11:15 PM

^^^I wouldn't count on it . . it's a perfectly fine building that meets the needs of those who occupy it. At a minimum it may go through a rehabilitation . . . I think that's a more realistic and likely scenario considering the transformation the neighborhood will be going through.

It would be a major expense and undertaking to bring down a structure of that size . . regardless of whether something similar has been done before.

NYguy Jan 11, 2012 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalziand (Post 5543177)
The chances of Javits being demolished now or in the imminent future? Very slim. The chances in a decade or two? Very high.

The Javits will be demolished in 3 - 5 years, but not before the replacement opens in Queens, which will be no earlier than 2014-15. It's going to come down quickly because it's valuable land and the state wants (needs) the money. They'll develop a master plan for the site before then. It's state land, so it won't need to go through the City's approval process, which is what happened with the rest of the Hudson Yards rezoning. They keep pointing to Battery Park City as a model, so expect something along those lines, but not a duplicate.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 12, 2012 1:07 AM

Well it better be a masterpiece of a master plan, because the New Jerseyans like the master of the New York threads nyguy will loose the masterful view of the 1930's masterpiece the Empire State Building and Midtown

Crawford Jan 12, 2012 1:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dac150 (Post 5546264)
^^^I wouldn't count on it . . it's a perfectly fine building that meets the needs of those who occupy it.

This building will almost certainly be demolished and replaced during the next economic cycle.

It's zoned for 3.1 million square feet of space, and was purchased by a major development firm. Their subsequent leases all have demolition clauses.

Dac150 Jan 12, 2012 1:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 5546446)
This building will almost certainly be demolished and replaced during the next economic cycle.

It's zoned for 3.1 million square feet of space, and was purchased by a major development firm. Their subsequent leases all have demolition clauses.

100,000 sqft floor-plates . . . this building isn't going anywhere. Brookfield has too much in the pipeline to even think about redeveloping this site. I tend to believe that the only changes to this site will modernizing the existing structure . . and that'll be down the road as the area becomes more developed and modernized itself.

But then again . . were all just speculating . .

RobertWalpole Jan 12, 2012 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE (Post 5546222)
^ That's what I said. It's the headquarters or includes tenants such as the Associated Press, WNET/Channel 13, Lerner New York, Coach, Barney's, and two City of New York agencies, and the Board of Elections and Financial Information Services Agency, and ofcourse the headquarters of the fourth major newspaper in the U.S the Daily News. But I did say it'll be gone in 15-20 years, now that's a guarenDAMNtee.

I agree. There's no way that building won't be razed in 15 or 20 years. It has tons of air rights.

NYguy Jan 12, 2012 3:15 AM

http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/01/0...omment-page-1/

The Upside of Cuomo’s Convention Center Plan: Urbanism on the West Side

http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-conten...t_side_map.jpg


by Ben Fried
Jan 9, 2012

Quote:

The Javits Center, built in the 1980s, controls 18 acres on the far West Side, from 33rd Street to 40th Street. Most of the site is an enormous superblock occupied by the main convention center building. The only cross street that provides access to the waterfront and Hudson River Park is 34th Street. (39th Street, while not part of the main building, is barricaded off to serve the facility’s needs.)

“You look down the street and all you see is a black wall,” said Meta Brunzema, an architect and professor at the Pratt Institute who chairs the planning committee of the Hell’s Kitchen Neighborhood Association. “It’s very difficult for the community to have waterfront access.” Meanwhile, the area around Javits never caught on as a retail environment, said Brunzema, because the convention center is empty 100 days out of the year.

Cuomo’s plan to redevelop the Javits site using “the Battery Park City model” — presumably by offering long-term leases piece-by-piece to different developers, working from a set of planning guidelines — could create a cohesive district on the western edge of the neighborhood and finally reconnect city streets to the waterfront......The Javits site sits next to the larger Hudson Yards special district, which the city rezoned in 2005 and will eventually be served by the extension of the 7 train to 34th Street and Eleventh Avenue. One important detail to keep an eye on is that the hard cap on parking spaces in the Hudson Yards district does not apply to the Javits Center site.


What the earlier, Hudson Yards expansion looked like, before plans were scrapped for a much smaller extension.

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/140863867/original.jpg


And then there was the hotel...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/140863972/medium.jpg

NYguy Jan 13, 2012 2:42 AM

http://www.rpa.org/2012/01/remaking-...west-side.html

Remaking the Far West Side

By Bob Yaro, President, RPA
Jan 12, 2012

Quote:

Gov. Andrew Cuomo's proposal to replace the Javits site with a new urban neighborhood heralds a transformational opportunity for Manhattan's Far West Side.

The area's potential has been undermined for decades by rail yards, empty lots and a hulking convention center that cut off the area from the rest of the city and the Hudson River. With the plan to remove Javits, a decades-long revitalization effort that began with Times Square, continued with the Hudson Waterfront and is under way at Hudson Yards would be fully realized.

Prominently featured in the governor's address was an endorsement of Regional Plan Association's longstanding proposal to develop new convention facilities on Manhattan's Far West Side and in Queens and then to remove the outmoded Javits facility and redevelop its 18-acre site into a major mixed-use waterfront community. This proposal would provide a range of important economic and other benefits to the city and state, including both short- and long-term job creation. The plan also would:

• Recapture the estimated $4 billion value of this large development parcel and put these funds to work in rebuilding New York's economy and infrastructure.

• Allow New York the join the ranks of virtually every other global city in relocating its large convention/trade-show facility from the central business district to a peripheral site that can provide better truck, car and airport access and accommodate the large, single-story structures that these events require.

• Provide for development of a smaller convention facility for high-value conferences and shows that need to remain in Manhattan. While the governor didn't recommend a specific site for this facility, RPA strongly believes that it should be located in the western half of the landmark Farley Post Office, adjoining the new Moynihan Station. The publicly owned Farley building, with its ample floor space and location adjacent to the country's busiest rail station, would be ideal for this facility.

FMIII Jan 13, 2012 9:36 PM

NYC is changing so quickly it becomes incredible.

As a Foreigner who first came in 1985 and almost every year since then until 2005, I can tell how much the city has changed. When you see NYC only once a year, it's like seeing a child growing every summer.

No other cities in the occidental world is as dynamic and as fast growing than NYC. Times Square has become a forest of high rise, The west side west of Lincoln center has become a forest of High rise. The city is safer, cleaner and now the 1980 corner stone of the redevelopment of the west side is about to be demolished to give birth to a New Battery park like project. It took time, but at least the job will be done.

The new buildings planned for the Hudson Yards development are not architecturally speaking "perfect" to my point of view, but I can only say bravo to a city which always look forward to build its future.

Bravo NY. :tup:

NYguy Jan 14, 2012 9:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMIII (Post 5549170)
NYC is changing so quickly it becomes incredible.

The new buildings planned for the Hudson Yards development are not architecturally speaking "perfect" to my point of view, but I can only say bravo to a city which always look forward to build its future.

Bravo NY. :tup:

New York has a lot more competition from cities around the world now for corporate space, and in the past hasn't really kept up with modern office supply. The problem has been talked about for a long time, but here we see plans in motion to make things possible.

There may be yet another massive rezoning for Midtown proper...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=197082

FMIII Jan 15, 2012 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5550385)
New York has a lot more competition from cities around the world now for corporate space, and in the past hasn't really kept up with modern office supply. The problem has been talked about for a long time, but here we see plans in motion to make things possible.

There may be yet another massive rezoning for Midtown proper...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=197082

I looked at the thread and was quite outraged. But that's another topic. Regarding the development of NYC, I know that cities (mainly in Asia) are advancing at a much faster pace. NYC may have old buildings but London, Paris, Frankfurt, Milano are way behind in terms of growth and change. I know that London is building a lot of high-rise but they are still way behind you.
So, good job, it must be exciting to see your hometown endlessly changing for the best. It's not like our European cities which have become open air museums...

scalziand Jan 15, 2012 8:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5542953)
The problem with that plan is it doesn't include much for office develoment. But when the state does develop a master plan for the site, it will of course include space for office development, similar to the BPC plan. The City is trying to create a new office district in that area. Turning over that much space to primarily residential development would be a mistake. There are few places to expand the commercial districts of Manhattan. Even given the time it will take to develop the existing sites zoned for office in the Hudson Yards, eventually those too will dry up. Meanwhile, residential towers and complexes go up all over Manhattan and the rest of the City. Residential's fine there, at least some. But I wouldn't wanna get carried away with it on that site.

That's one of teh things I would like like to see changed about the HKNA plan. The new strip of park and residential buildings facing the park would be nice, but I'd really like to see a row of office towers along 11th ave.

That would add another 10-15 MSF of office space while still keeping a decent amount of room for residential development. It would be good to have the towers step down in size as they head north from the yards, so as to not overwhelm the existing residential along 42nd street.

Something like this:
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/585/hknaplanmod1.png

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3378/hkmod2.jpg

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3153/hkmod3.jpg


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