Southfield (Detroit Suburb) wants after-work downtown vibe and nightlife
Glad to see Southfield making some decent plans to revitalize itself. Ignore the putdown I put in the thread title. I put there by accident.
Southfield wants after-work downtown vibe and nightlife Quote:
http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...w=640&Maxh=410 http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...w=640&Maxh=410 http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...w=640&Maxh=410 http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...w=640&Maxh=410 |
Nice to see Southfield is looking for a makeover. It definitely need one.
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Edited thread icon as per request.
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I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but it's too late for Southfield. It has an ageing and somewhat unpopular housing stock, its schools are in decline, and it has some of the highest property tax rates in Oakland county. Plus its retail is in decline and office space isn't too hot either, with the exception of the Towne Center and the Northwestern Highway corridor. Northland mall is probably in its last decade as an enclosed shopping center and Macy's (in the next inevitable round of closings) will close the Northland store. And we don't even have to get to the elephant in the room of its proximity to Detroit and the city's problems beginning to spill into Southfield's borders. But Southfield isn't declining as rapidly as other suburbs (Eastpoint (that name change really worked out), Warren, Hazel Park, and many others).
Moreover, this seems like a really stupid plan. If downtown Detroit, the Pointes, Birmingham, and Rochester can't maintain or had to shutter their stand-alone department store(s) what makes Southfield think that it can maintain a few new stores. And the project seems like a poor version of a lifestyle center (Fountain Walk part deux). A good lifestyle center like Crocker Park or Legacy Village will only work where the plan is good and people want to live/work nearby -- all negative for Southfield. Plus, downtown Birmingham/Royal Oak are very close by and even a resurgent downtown/midtown Detroit would make the plan unviable. |
^ some good points. They totally missed the opportunity on this, and the transition should have begun 15 years ago when office towers were still rising there. But you got the pull of other suburbs and redevelopment in Detroit that are better places to shop and work and that's where Southfield residents will go.
Major planned developments scare me. They tend to fail more easily than succeed and fail worse in communities where the past half century development trajectory has totally been opposite of what is proposed. |
This will never happen.
I know Southfield well, and lived there for a bit as a child. Southfield, while a decent community, is slowly declining, and does not have sufficient demand for new retail space of any type. The existing mall (Northland) is a disaster, the other mall (Tel Twelve) was demolished and rebuilt, and all those existing office buildings you see in the renderings are half-empty and starved for tenant interest. They're even demolishing 60's-era highrises in Southfield (just tore down a former Sheraton, and a former Holiday Inn may be next). And surrounding communities have successful existing downtowns (Birmingham, Royal Oak, Ferndale). Southfield is an older sprawlburb and cannot compete with this. Another thing: Southfield is overwhelmingly black and Orthodox/Hasidic Jewish. This means it isn't your "typical" sprawlburb, and means that your typical retail development and might not necessarily work. You need someone who knows the community; who would know that, for example, Friday night is useless from the perspective of attracting religious Jews, or that retail in black neighborhoods may be successful in attracting blacks but often has trouble attracting other ethnicities from neighboring jurisdictions. |
Lots of spandex wearing cyclists in that rendering.:D
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Southfield's problem isn't really that it is itself a sprawlburb, but that the Metro Detroit's sprawlburb market is beyond saturated. This ain't fixing what truly ails Southfield... |
The area already has a decent relatively urban residential base with the townhouses and residential towers. There's also the student base at Lawrence Tech and the employee base in the multiple office towers. Civic Center Dr. could become a sort of walkable 'main street" as the traffic isn't too heavy on that road. Obviously it is an ambitious plan, but I think it would be nice if it pans out. They really should focus on adding a bunch of residential mid-rises. Maybe young professionals working in the nearby office towers may decide to ditch the commute and move in.
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It would be nice.
Currently the area looks too spread out to have a solid running start. The college is a pretty long way away even if a skybridge or lid is built. So much depends on being an enjoyable one or three minute walk vs. a tougher five or seven minute walk. There's some housing nearby but on average there appears to be very little within the walkable zone in every direction. Of course if it's not a prosperous or growing part of town that's a huge hurdle. Drywall costs the same regardless of where you put it, so it usually goes where the rents and growth are high. On the positive side, maybe it can succeed as a drivable quasi-urban destination even before the walkable density goes in. Maybe there's good pent-up demand for this sort of thing. |
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Most office/retail projects have been in the North/Northwest suburbs (Novi, Northville, Oakland County) or downtown. How the hell is Southfield supposed to basically rebuild an auto oriented area about the size of the Detroit CBD, if not larger, into a faux urban mixed use development? Those offices in the area have lost several tenants over the past few years - most notably Blue Cross Blue Shield who consolidated their employees in downtown Detroit. And Southfield has several residential towers throughout the city that are declining. Lawrence Tech is a commuter school and commuter school students generally care about close parking to their classes and getting the hell back to home, studying, or play after class. If Lawrence Tech can't even support bookstores, non-chain restaurants, and bars near its campus, what makes you think that it can support a larger development - across an expressway no less? |
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Southfield apartment buildings are generally so undesirable they're in danger of being abandoned and demolished. Many of the large Southfield apartment complexes are filled with Section 8 and other subsidized tenants, and this wasn't the case just a few years ago. Southfield residential is generally undesirable, but Southfield multifamily is especially troubled. And anyone searching for urbanity and walkability has options all over the place. There would be no reason to move to Southfield which is basically the polar opposite, but not new and shiny like most sprawlburbs, but old and semi-declined. And re. middle class black families, I don't think they're moving to Southfield in significant numbers any more. They're moving to newer, more desirable suburbs, with better schools. Places like West Bloomfield, Farmington Hills, and Novi have very fast-growing black populations. |
I don't think people will be confusing mid-century Section 8 apartment complexes with a mixed-use office/retail/residential development.
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Retailers only care about making money, not whether "there are plenty of middle-class areas that will remain so for long term." in Southfield. The problem is that Southfield's established retail has seriously declined or its on life support. And Southfield's poorer population, as evidenced by declining home values, falling population, and lower incomes, does not help attract retailers. The number and quality of its stores have declined since the 90s. Sears, Khol's, Kmart, JC Penny and other department stores closed up shop in the city. Plus, why should retailers undercut their investments in nearby Troy, Birmingham, West Bloomfield, and Novi by adding the same stores in Southfield? Quote:
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What I find interesting is that many of qualities people are saying about Southfield are pretty much the same things that have been said about downtown Detroit.
The problem I find with the plan is that it doesn't seem ambitious enough. Southfield's plan doesn't really look all that attractive and doesn't seem to have enough placemaking qualities. Troy has a similar plan to densify it's notoriously suburban office parks along Big Beaver. The difference seems to be that Troy actually seem to put effort in creating a dense and reconizable center whereas Southfield doesn't seem to have as much effort put in. I mean, yea they already have the office towers, but the development isn't really centered around them. |
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Yet, even in Troy, there's no semblance of a "new downtown". It's the same old sprawl, but with some new sidewalks and decorative pavers. Of course the sidewalks are devoid of pedestrians, because you cannot turn postwar suburbia into something pedestrian friendly. |
Sure you can. Countless suburbs have created true urbanity in nodes, some very substantial. It just takes a lot of demand pressure and a lot of money. Growth management helps because high land prices and low land availability are a major driver.
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Buildings abandoned for nearly thirty years have come back online and other long rundown buildings are being purchased for more than a song. And now surface lots, which even at downtown's worst is not comparable to Southfield's acres of surface parking, are being developed. Most importantly, Downtown/Midtown have strong civic boosters who have the desire, influence, and ability (Gilbert/WSU) to grow residential, office, and retail space. |
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