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Does anyone know where the Disney station will be? I don't think Disney would actually give VTUSA land for a station, and I don't think VTUSA would want to stray all that far from the I-5 corridor anyway.
The point being, if you are arriving at Disney for a one-day thing, great. Take a bus from the train station to the park, and when you go home get a bus back to the train. But going from the Orlando airport to Disney makes very little sense. The buses that Disney runs from the airport go directly to the Disney hotels. It's a one-seat ride straight to your resort. It makes Zero sense for Disney to stop their bus service from the airport and have everyone 1) take a train two stops from the airport before 2) transferring to a bus and then 3) finally arriving at your hotel. The best place for the Disney station, IMO, would be by Disney Springs (the old Downtown Disney), because that is the closest Disney attraction to I-5, and is the only direct connection that VTUSA could realistically pursue. Maybe one day Disney will finally extend the monorail to Disney Springs (once autonomous cars render the parking issues irrelevant) and Disney Springs could be a very nice transportation hub. I just don't understand why the Disney station is being given such a priority. It will be a busy stop to be sure, but I don't see how it could be the huge demand generator people seem to expect it to be. It certainly isn't so important that it needs to be built as part of the first push towards Orlando - Disney has many very nice options to get to their properties from the airport and those won't be going anywhere, even with this new train. |
Trains Magazine is reporting that the Meadow Wood and Disney stations will *possibly* be served by a separate DMU service, meaning that the main line to Tampa may not follow that route at all. This would be great news for the Orlando-Tampa segment because it would make that trip become significantly faster, but it would also make the Disney and Meadow Wood stops all the more irrelevant.
It's all very strange. |
VIRGIN TRAINS (BRIGHTLINE) SECURES FUNDING IT NEEDED FOR MIAMI-ORLANDO HIGH SPEED RAIL CONSTRUCTION
April 8, 2019 Brightline – which is now known as Virgin Trains – has raised the funding it needs to build a high speed rail line from Miami to Orlando from investors. In the past three weeks, 67 investors have lined up to buy the $1.75B in tax free bonds that had been approved by the state of Florida. That is enough to begin construction on the stretch from Miami to Orlando, and work will begin imminently. Permits and construction contracts are already in place. According to The Bond Buyer, investors were “wowed,” leading the bond sale to be upsized from $1.5 billion. Strong demand also led the bond sale to close a day earlier than expected. The company on Friday won state approval to issue another $950 million in tax free bonds, bringing the total to $2.7 billion. The announcement of funding came at an event held last week where the company was officially renamed from Brightline to Virgin Trains USA. Richard Branson was in attendance. Virgin’s station at Orlando International Airport is already completed. Construction of the rail line from West Palm Beach to Orlando will take 30 to 36 months. At the event, the company also confirmed that they are working on additional stations: *PortMiami – the company would like to build a station to serve cruise passengers (up to $50 million in additional bonds would be sold to build it) *Fort Lauderdale Airport – to serve both air and cruise passengers from Port Everglades (up to $50 million in additional bonds) *Walt Disney World – a Letter of Intent has already been signed, and it could open at the same time as the Orlando airport station if permitting allows (up to $200 million in additional bonds) *Sunrail – linking to Orlando’s local rail service at the Meadow Wood Station *Tampa Another $100 million may be issued to purchase rolling stock. https://www.thenextmiami.com/virgin-...vestors-wowed/ |
Virgin rebrands Miami Central
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Virgin Trains officially begins construction on West Palm-to-Orlando express route.
BY ROB WILE MAY 22, 2019 09:37 AM Virgin Trains USA announced Tuesday construction on its West Palm Beach to Orlando extension had officially begun on what it projects will be a four-year undertaking. The $4 billion project calls for 170 miles of new track. The company, formerly known as Brightline, projects that by 2022, it will have generated more than 10,000 jobs and more than $650 million in federal, state and local tax revenue. Digging formally began this week outside Orlando International Airport, where a new connection hub will shuttle passengers from the train’s terminus to airline gates. The announcement follows years of delays, debate and negotiation over safety, noise and traffic concerns. Virgin also has named the five contractors who will handle the laying of 490,000 ties and transporting 2.35 million tons of granite and limestone by 20,000 rail cars, and the hammering of two million spikes and bolts over the next 36 months. “Connecting Central and South Florida will bring thousands of jobs today and by modernizing infrastructure, we will strengthen Florida’s economy for decades,” said Patrick Goddard, president of Virgin Trains USA, in a statement. A formal groundbreaking ceremony is slated for the coming weeks. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/bus...230688994.html :cheers: |
I want to be stoked but this should have been done under a statewide high speed rail program using electrified trains operating at 180mph. And that likely could have been operating already if it wasn't for the good-ol-alien-next-door Rick Scott.
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^^^ Well, at least it’s something. This project would not even exist if it wasn’t done by a private company that really want it to happen.
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That's a big reason why Scott killed the high-speed plan. He wanted private companies to profit off the demand instead of having a public rail program.
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I'm glad this project is being done by a private company. The old government project of a Orlando-Tampa line would not have been a good demonstrator HSR in the USA (perhaps a good technology demonstrator, but the corridor was too short and the cities were too small and decentralized to provide enough ridership to justify that project).
I'm hopeful that if this project is successful other railroads will eventually join in and start running passenger trains again in the most profitable corridors. Or at least partner with sibling-companies, like Virigin Trains USA is doing with the Florida East Coast. These services would start like VTUSA, with diesel-hauled 'higher-speed' service, but as popularity rises improvements could be made to increase the speed, or add electric catenary, etc., all as the market would allow it. After all, the original transcontinental railroad is more than 100 miles shorter today than it was in 1869, because it has been constantly improved over time. Get it built, get the money rolling in, optimize over time. Ultimately, I think the best approach the government could have for transportation policy would be a bounty system. No one would get funding or subsidies. Instead, the individual transportation companies (rail, airline, uber + ride hailing, etc.) would report report their riderships and the government would pay out 'bounties' accordingly. A metric would be set up, with 1 credit for distance, 1 credit for total trip time (the shorter the better!) 1 credit for type of environment (within urban areas get higher bounties)..... etc. This way both the public and private sectors win. Transportation policy is shaped by the government, but private services get to compete for that service, which will be great for the customer. Look at the service of VTUSA as compared to Amtrak. It's not just a funding difference; even fully funded Amtrak's service is shaped more by political concerns than it ought to be. I really hope that VTUSA is as profitable in this venture as they expect to be, because I believe a national private passenger rail renaissance depends on their success with this project. |
FIRST RAIL DELIVERED FOR MIAMI TO ORLANDO LINE AS VIRGIN TRAINS TARGETS 2022 COMPLETION
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https://www.thenextmiami.com/first-r...22-completion/ |
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Even Brightline will be implemented in stages, but stages following closely upon each other - not decades apart. |
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The point, anyways, of constructing the first segment in the Central Valley is specifically that there is existing services that can be leveraged at the book-ends (that was always the contingency, and that is in fact what they are going to do). The first Brightline project worked in an existing corridor and involved adding tracks, upgrading crossings and signals, and building stations. Going through the entire process of properly identifying alignments, scoping everything out, going through the mandated public consultation process, acquiring property, bidding out contracts, etc, is not a project specific but context specific. |
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And I will repeat once more, they should have built that missing book end first! Yes, I mean the black hole of the CHSR system, Bakersfield to Los Angeles - where no passenger train runs today. The only contingency there is an express bus service. Why not replace all of the CHSR system with an express bus service if that is a good enough contingency? |
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And I will repeat once more, they should have built that missing book end first! Yes, I mean the black hole of the CHSR system, Bakersfield to Los Angels - where no passenger train runs today. The only contingency there is an express bus service. Why not replace all of the CHSR system with an express bus service if that is a good enough contingency? Leveraging an express bus service in lieu of a train service is not a great contingency! Which is why so many people continue to question CHSR past decisions. The truth is their first decision to ignore and delay the Bakersfield to Los Angeles leg was completely wrong! |
I want to talk for a minute about the other Virgin Trains USA project - the one between Las Vegas and 'Southern California.' It just got (probably) delayed for 2-ish years until the state of Nevada can convene the legislature again and hopefully give the company 'tax abatements' whatever those are.
Meanwhile, VTUSA has 2 more years to evaluate what its service will look like, which is good because there is a huge problem with what is currently proposed: The line ends in Victorville, CA. In order to ride the train, people first have to drive their cars through LA and Cajon pass for at least an hour before they finally get to the train station. By then they might as well keep on going, because they are already in their cars and taking the train will cost at least $60 and only save them 80 minutes (according to this article) Everyone with common sense can see this isn't going to be excellent. There are really only two defenses for the proposed project: 1) There will be a future connection with High Speed Rail in Palmedale. This is probably not going to happen anytime soon considering recent events related to the CAHSR... 2) This is only phase 1 in a multi-step process - the line will be extended into LA later once the first phase is bringing in revenue. People with this second attitude will say that eventually a high speed rail line will be built - using private money - through the mountains and the LA basin. I just don't see this happening. Building through mountains and urban areas is far too expensive for a private company to take on. Instead, I think the best strategy for VTUSA connecting to Los Angeles is to connect their new high speed tracks to the existing freight tracks at Victorville and then run in mixed traffic all the way into LA Union Station, following a timetable similar to Amtrak's Southwest Chief. Amtrak is able to run from LAUS to Victorville in 2 hrs and 55 minutes; Add to this VTUSA's claim of 90 minutes from Victorville to Las Vegas in 90 minutes and the total ride time from Los Angeles to Las Vegas will be 4.5 hours, which in most traffic conditions is still faster than driving. This brought me to wondering about the viability of constructing VTUSA stations at the four locations Amtrak/Metrolink currently stop at in the LA basin: San Bernadino, Riverside, Fullerton, and LAUS. Assuming that VTUSA orders more trainsets from Siemens similar to the ones they are using in Florida (a safe bet, I think), these cars would be single-level high-floor cars that work best at high platforms. Of course, California and Illinois are ordering the exact same locomotives and cars for their own corridor services, and these cars will be equipped with stairs in order to use the low platforms on these routes. High platforms are better for passengers but until recently were limited in where they could be built because freight trains are often wider than passenger trains and could not use tracks adjacent to high platforms. Brightline in Florida solved this problem with gap-fillers that deploy from the passenger cars. The trouble is, these gap fillers and their support mechanisms would take up the space used by a stairwell. Mechanical gap fillers are not like manual bridge plates - you cannot switch between high-level and low-level doors. This is important, because I think VTUSA would want to have high platforms at their Las Vegas terminal station, which is slated to become a huge real estate development similar to MiamiCentral. It would be weird for the terminal station to require passengers to tromp up steep and narrow stairs, and for ADA passengers to require a lift. Perhaps VTUSA could have half their doors low and half high? But why forfeit half of your boarding speed? Perhaps VTUSA could have additional doors for low and high platforms, like the Stadler Kiss units ordered for the Caltrain electrification project? But why add complexity to the car design and reduce seating capacity? Also, would VTUSA really just use existing platforms at the four LA basin stations? Their whole thing is hospitality and professionalism. They are almost certainly going to want to build their own station buildings for waiting rooms, and if they are going to do that, why not build their own high-platforms directly on the mainline as well? I did a little armchair designing on Google Maps, and found that the current VTUSA stations in Florida are 860 feet long. These are all 'island' platform stations with a building above them connected by elevators/escalators. For California, I am assuming they will also build their waiting rooms above or beside the tracks then connect to them via an overhead bridge and elevators/escalators. However, instead of an island platform, I used two side platforms that would be located beside the low-level platforms of Amtrak/Metrolink. Here is an example. Fullerton, where passengers from San Diego on the Surfliners would connect: https://i.imgur.com/Zc1gEtch.jpg Now with a VTUSA station: https://i.imgur.com/BAzsDkDh.jpg The labels were attempting to designate the yellow area as the STATION building (complete with ticketing areas, waiting rooms, passenger drop-off and pick-up area for cars, and all the other amenities seen on VTUSA in Florida), the red areas as PEDESTRIAN CONNECTIONS including a bridge over the tracks to the ticketing and waiting areas, and the orange areas as PLATFORMS, where passengers would be directed to trains just as they were arriving and departing - no passengers would be allowed on the platforms when other trains were passing without stopping (as currently done in in Florida). The Riverton station would be similar. For San Bernadino I tried to fit two platforms in, but I just could not. So instead I have only platform placed just west of the brand-new Amtrak platform. Current: https://i.imgur.com/4Cv0x8rh.jpg With VTUSA: https://i.imgur.com/n8THky3h.jpg Again, the yellow is the station building, complete with bridge over the Metrolink tracks. The orange is the high-level VTUSA platform, and it is on the track that is otherwise used only by Amtrak and fright trains. The blue line is a very slight reloaction of one of the cross-overs between the Metrolink tracks and the Amtrak/freight track. I do not think it is used during regular daily operation, so there is no need to make it high-speed. I have no idea what to do about Los Angeles Union Station besides have VTUSA buy one of the tracks (possibly Track 15 - the farthest east?) and convert it to a high-platform. *-*-*-*-*-*-* I think this concept would be a very popular alternative for travelers. Connections at Fullerton and San Bernadino would be very convenient for passengers who did not want to drive/ride all the way into Union Station but were also unwilling to drive up to Victorville. The Victorville station would still be a thing, and people could still drive there if they chose. Remember, Brightline calculated that they could turn a profit on their train operations if they captured only 7% of the travel market between Orlando and Miami. Only 7%! Everything else is just gravy. For the LA-LV route, the profitability margin is probably even lower. This train doesn't need to be convenient for everybody - it only needs to work for a small amount of passengers for it to work, and I think by blending conventional-speed trains in the urban LA basin and the mountain pass with high-speed service through the desert, it will be convenient for more than enough passengers for it to be profitable. Even though the trains would clearly not be operating at a high speed from Victorville into Union Station, they could still travel at about 80 mph, which is currently the top speed on VTUSA in Florida (until the Orlando extension opens). The Florida operation also has to deal with mixed traffic on all but the future Cocoa-Orlando segment, so dealing with Amtrak/BNSF/Metrolink is not an impossible task. It is also possible that, just like in Florida, VTUSA is able to make some money in the commuter market as a friendlier alternative to Metrolink, just as some people commute into Miami from Fort Lauderdale on VTUSA instead of on TRIRAIL. I think VTUSA really ought to look a the cost of constructing their own stations in these locations, because a fully connected system is FAR superior to a disconnected high-speed system, even if trains travel only at conventional speeds. Thoughts? |
^ why go through Fullerton and not the more direct Metrolink line to San Bernardino?
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Capacity constraints, since that line is only single track with no easy way to add a second. Also Fullerton is very close to Anaheim, a major population center and a source of ridership. Lastly, the Fullerton route runs entirely on BNSF, so there's only one host railroad to deal with. By following an existing Amtrak schedule, coming to an agreement with BNSF should be pretty straight forward.
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It's the multiple passenger trains per day service that has prevented access to more passenger trains per day over this corridor. X-train, or whatever it will be called, are wanting to run one round trip per week - a Friday departure from LA and a Sunday return to LA. It's definitely far easier to talk UP or BNSF to add one round trip passenger train per week - it will be an entirely different manner talking about adding multiple round trips per day. I do not see that happening over a crowded freight rail corridor. |
I did not realize the LA metro area has such crappy rail capacity! That sure explains the pathetic Metrolink schedules.
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