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JScott Feb 22, 2013 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6024441)
Not sure I'm seeing what you're seeing, Scott. I can see the Bradbury/Potts mansion back there over the top of that Victorian block but I can't quite make out any part of the courthouse.


This little bit here:

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...e3a2_o_mod.jpg
LAPL

I can't say for sure it's part of the new Court House, but it's a square/flat structure of some sort. Plus, I can see what could be a little crane/pulley or two in the middle of the top of the thing. It's in the right place to be the clock tower, too. Anyway, like I said - I wish the image were larger so I could be certain! I'm just purely speculating here.

MichaelRyerson Feb 22, 2013 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScott (Post 6024462)
This little bit here:

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...e3a2_o_mod.jpg
LAPL

I can't say for sure it's part of the new Court House, but it's a square/flat structure of some sort. Plus, I can see what could be a little crane/pulley or two in the middle of the top of the thing. It's in the right place to be the clock tower, too. Anyway, like I said - I wish the image were larger so I could be certain! I'm just purely speculating here.

That's what I'm seeing as the Bradbury/Potts house.

JScott Feb 22, 2013 1:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6024470)
That's what I'm seeing as the Bradbury/Potts house.

Yep, you're right. :tup:

GaylordWilshire Feb 22, 2013 2:50 PM

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6...alterhouse.jpgfindagrave.com


Quote:

Originally Posted by gus37 (Post 6024093)
Possibly. Seems like there was politics involved with getting it rebuilt too, so they may be extra edgy:
January 2007 letter from University Park HPOZ to insurance adjuster

House is #409 on this culturally historic LA monuments list

Picture of work in progress:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s%2C_CA%29.jpg
Wikipedia

If you click on the image for the high rez version, you can see that's the same private property sign from the back on the temporary fencing in front, so they maybe had to deal with squatters/vandals during the process too. I guess if they want to be paranoid now I won't fault them.


A bit more on the Burkhalter house...a full interesting house-history could be done on it, but the short of it is that railroadman Dennis Burkhalter bought the land--lot 78 of the Ellis tract--in September 1894 and received a building permit the following February. Burkhalter had four daughters, two of whom, Margaret (b 1882) and Amy (b 1885) appear never to have married. Both were listed at 2309 in the 1956 city directory; Amy died in 1958 and Margaret was listed at 2309 as late as July 1963.

The picture at top here is undated, but it's from before the 2006 fire--2317 Scarff, which burned down (or was burned down) in 2006 with the fire spreading to the Burkhalter house, can be seen at left. According to info on Dennis Burkhalter's "Find-a-Grave" entry, 2309 originally had an attic dormer on its north side that wasn't restored in repairs after a fire prior to the one of 2006.

MichaelRyerson Feb 22, 2013 3:47 PM

Here you go Scott, this is the only other shot of the Hall of Justice on the east side of Buena Vista (Justicia) St. I could find. Kind of a nice pic. Also places the 'new' County Jail on Temple Street as coming online after 1902.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8372/8...aa5cab5c_o.png
Los Angeles County Jail, Buena Vista Street and Temple Street, after 1902

"Photograph of the Los Angeles County Jail, Buena Vista Street and Temple Street, after 1902. Several pedestrians are visible on the sidewalk adjacent to the 3-story stone structure. An automobile is parked at the left side near a lawn with a large fir tree. Photograph was taken from a rooftop (partially visible in bottom foreground)." Archived caption incorrectly, I think, says camera was on a roof. I believe the shot is from the County Courthouse grounds which were elevated above Temple Street. It then says the car is parked near a lawn when it is clearly parked on Buena Vista Street and the 'large' fir tree is on this side of Temple Street on the courthouse grounds. Also looking up Buena Vista (Justicia) the second building, next to the jail is the Hall of Justice.

USC digital archive/Title Insurance and Trust, and C.C. Pierce Photography Collection, 1860-1960

tovangar2 Feb 22, 2013 6:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanhawk (Post 5536411)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5536425)
:previous: I recognize William Holden and the Reagans....but who are the other two?

Was this one ever solved? That's Gore Vidal on the left and (I think) Ardis Anderson Gaines (Mrs. William Holden), stage name Brenda Marshall.

MichaelRyerson Feb 22, 2013 6:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6024848)
Was this one ever solved? That's Gore Vidal on the left and (I think) Ardis Anderson Gaines (Mrs. William Holden), stage name Brenda Marshall.

Brenda Marshall was a beauty by whatever name she chose. I don't think the marriage to Holden was a particularly happy one though. That's Don Taylor on the left though, not Vidal. He and Holden had just made Stalag 17. Taylor's character (Dunbar) drove a central plot device by hiding in the water tower much to the consternation of the bad guys.

ethereal_reality Feb 22, 2013 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterK (Post 6024148)
I'm surprised you guys arent talking about the murdered girl from Hotel Cecil... So creepy. So sad.

The video of her acting weird in the elevator gives me the willies.


Interesting article on the Hotel Cecil murder in the Daily Mail.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Angeles.html

below are some highlights

http://imageshack.us/a/img33/4842/aabcecildmail.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img62/838/aabcecildmail2.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Angeles.html




http://imageshack.us/a/img267/3554/a...oftopdmail.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html






http://imageshack.us/a/img833/2931/a...ldmailfoto.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html


http://imageshack.us/a/img24/5696/aa...watertaste.jpg

__

ethereal_reality Feb 22, 2013 7:26 PM

...more on the Hotel Cecil's shady past here (very interesting)

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nationa...-has-dark-past
__

tovangar2 Feb 22, 2013 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6024865)
Brenda Marshall was a beauty by whatever name she chose. I don't think the marriage to Holden was a particularly happy one though. That's Don Taylor on the left though, not Vidal. He and Holden had just made Stalag 17. Taylor's character (Dunbar) drove a central plot device by hiding in the water tower much to the consternation of the bad guys.

Thx for the corrected info. I guess the arched eyebrow fooled me. Ardis' marriage to Holden lasted 30 years, mostly in name only.

"...hiding in the water tower..."? I'd forgotten that detail. I wasn't talking about the Elisa Lam case HunteK because it's so disturbing, I haven't quite processed it yet. I'm dumbfounded to hear that the Health Dept allowed the Cecil to stay open on the condition guests are provided with bottled water. What are they supposed to shower in?

belmont bob Feb 22, 2013 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScott (Post 6024319)
(Sorry for the large image size, but it's necessary in order to show details.)

At the far right of the 1921 Baist map, "X" marks the spot of the Hall of Justice that preceded the one later erected at Temple and Broadway. I don't recall ever seeing a photo of this building. Has anyone else?

http://trinidadbay.net/img/lanoir/1921baistmap_crop.jpg
Historic Map Works



Also on the map, "†" marks the true historical location of St. Athanasius, at the southwest corner of Temple and New High. The parallel lines mark the present alignment of Spring Street. By this reckoning, the site of the church is now almost entirely in the roadway of present-day Spring Street.

Unless this approximation of the current alignment of Spring Street is in error, it would appear we split the difference between the church locations as depicted in the two photo superimpositions.

When it comes to the Baist maps no one should ever apologize for making them too large. These are such great treasures and contain so many little details that even when looking at the subject in question I can’t help but stare at all the little details on other properties. So to be sure, any of these maps posted will get my full scrutiny. And Historic Mapworks is a site I keep open all the time so I can check out photos are they are posted.

JScott Feb 22, 2013 9:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6024598)
Here you go Scott, this is the only other shot of the Hall of Justice on the east side of Buena Vista (Justicia) St. I could find. Kind of a nice pic. Also places the 'new' County Jail on Temple Street as coming online after 1902.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8372/8...aa5cab5c_o.png
Los Angeles County Jail, Buena Vista Street and Temple Street, after 1902

"Photograph of the Los Angeles County Jail, Buena Vista Street and Temple Street, after 1902. Several pedestrians are visible on the sidewalk adjacent to the 3-story stone structure. An automobile is parked at the left side near a lawn with a large fir tree. Photograph was taken from a rooftop (partially visible in bottom foreground)." Archived caption incorrectly, I think, says camera was on a roof. I believe the shot is from the County Courthouse grounds which were elevated above Temple Street. It then says the car is parked near a lawn when it is clearly parked on Buena Vista Street and the 'large' fir tree is on this side of Temple Street on the courthouse grounds. Also looking up Buena Vista (Justicia) the second building, next to the jail is the Hall of Justice.

USC digital archive/Title Insurance and Trust, and C.C. Pierce Photography Collection, 1860-1960



Excellent, thank you! That's the closest view I've ever seen of the old jail. I'm still wondering about that other building on Pound Cake Hill which we think is/was an earlier jail. For awhile there, I thought it might be the Fulton Block as indicated on the Baist map, but double-checking, I noticed they are two quite different-looking buildings.

JScott Feb 22, 2013 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6025144)
When it comes to the Baist maps no one should ever apologize for making them too large. These are such great treasures and contain so many little details that even when looking at the subject in question I can’t help but stare at all the little details on other properties. So to be sure, any of these maps posted will get my full scrutiny. And Historic Mapworks is a site I keep open all the time so I can check out photos are they are posted.


:) A couple weeks ago, I made a desktop wallpaper of this Civic Center Baist map, but I found I spent most of my time at my computer just looking at the map, and not getting any work done. I find them to be incredibly absorbing. I wish I had the actual physical maps to leaf through at leisure. No, wait - then I definitely wouldn't get anything done IRL!

Speaking of distractions, I never cease to be amazed at the screencaps posted here from the video game, L.A. Noire. Talk about entrancing - I could see myself vanishing totally into that virtual world. Sometimes I wonder if some of our former major contributors here - like gsjansen and Beaudry - have been swallowed whole by the game, and that's why we don't hear from them anymore. Beaudry's disappearance, if I recall correctly, took place not very long after L.A. Noire was released...

MichaelRyerson Feb 22, 2013 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScott (Post 6025225)
Excellent, thank you! That's the closest view I've ever seen of the old jail. I'm still wondering about that other building on Pound Cake Hill which we think is/was an earlier jail. For awhile there, I thought it might be the Fulton Block as indicated on the Baist map, but double-checking, I noticed they are two quite different-looking buildings.

The Baist map is 1921. The Hall of Records went up in about 1910-12 adjacent to the courthouse and directly on the site of the smaller building I now think was the jail that immediately predated this one on Temple Street.

ProphetM Feb 22, 2013 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScott (Post 6024450)
Neither view was historically accurate, as it turns out.

D'oh!

I completely forgot to look at the Baist map. I was going by the 1928 USGS map overlaid in Google Earth, which of course is much smaller. I will review and see about updating the placement... :D

belmont bob Feb 22, 2013 11:54 PM

Court Flight
 
As long as we're looking at the old courthouse area reminds me that after going through all 630 plus pages of this forum one thing I don't remember seeing was any photos of Court Flight from the top including whatever type of station or structure was located there. There's been plenty of photos taken at the bottom, most of which are here, but the top...other than a couple that looked down the tracks, nothing of the station. On the other hand there have been plenty of the Angel's Flight upper station.

KevinW Feb 22, 2013 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScott (Post 6025269)
:) A couple weeks ago, I made a desktop wallpaper of this Civic Center Baist map, but I found I spent most of my time at my computer just looking at the map, and not getting any work done. I find them to be incredibly absorbing. I wish I had the actual physical maps to leaf through at leisure. No, wait - then I definitely wouldn't get anything done IRL!

Speaking of distractions, I never cease to be amazed at the screencaps posted here from the video game, L.A. Noire. Talk about entrancing - I could see myself vanishing totally into that virtual world. Sometimes I wonder if some of our former major contributors here - like gsjansen and Beaudry - have been swallowed whole by the game, and that's why we don't hear from them anymore. Beaudry's disappearance, if I recall correctly, took place not very long after L.A. Noire was released...

This is what I keep talking about building: a 3D map of L.A. that one can travel around but with a time slider so you can see everything that used to be here. Anyone know computer modelers who love history?

MichaelRyerson Feb 23, 2013 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6025378)
As long as we're looking at the old courthouse area reminds me that after going through all 630 plus pages of this forum one thing I don't remember seeing was any photos of Court Flight from the top including whatever type of station or structure was located there. There's been plenty of photos taken at the bottom, most of which are here, but the top...other than a couple that looked down the tracks, nothing of the station. On the other hand there have been plenty of the Angel's Flight upper station.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8028/7...e3222e6b_o.jpg
court street terminus at court flight, ca. 1940

Ansel Adams

Architecturally not as interesting as the upper station at Angel's Flight but still it is Ansel Adams...


And following the haircut...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8458/8...5f31dd36_o.jpg
The Civic Center from Court Flight, Arnold Hylen, 1953

The California History Room, California State Library

belmont bob Feb 23, 2013 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6025388)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8028/7...e3222e6b_o.jpg
court street terminus at court flight, ca. 1940

Ansel Adams

Architecturally not as interesting as the upper station at Angel's Flight but still it is Ansel Adams...


And following the haircut...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8458/8...5f31dd36_o.jpg
The Civic Center from Court Flight, Arnold Hylen, 1953

The California History Room, California State Library

Thank you Michael, such a fast responce (6 min) yeah I think I remember seeing these now, but the structure was so simple I guess I didn't realize what it was....I has expected more....oh well...now I know.

Flyingwedge Feb 23, 2013 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScott (Post 6025225)
Excellent, thank you! That's the closest view I've ever seen of the old jail. I'm still wondering about that other building on Pound Cake Hill which we think is/was an earlier jail. For awhile there, I thought it might be the Fulton Block as indicated on the Baist map, but double-checking, I noticed they are two quite different-looking buildings.

LAPL has the 1888 and 1894 Sanborn maps available online (with library card). Home access of the database didn't work today (librarians at a loss to explain), so I went to my local branch and looked online at the maps there. The building immediately south of the courthouse was, as MichaelRyerson said, an old jail, and is labeled in some detail on the 1894 map. To me it looks more like a church than a jail.

Here's the New High Street side in c. 1895 (I like that "DRUG" sign at lower left). On the Sanborn map the "church" building is labeled "Off's 1st / D 2nd." Maybe that means "Offices 1st floor" and "Detention 2nd floor"?:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psa2d05828.jpg
USC Digital Library (http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...id/2719/rec/28)

It seems to have lost the cross atop the right front corner in this c. 1904 pic:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psccc14b9a.jpg
USC Digital Library (http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...id/2722/rec/22)

In this c. 1906 shot looking I guess NE, we see the church-like building from the side/rear. The Sanborn map marks the slightly smaller building attached to the rear of the "church" as the actual jail; unseen and attached to the back side of the jail is a workshop.
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9aa0a585.jpg
USC Digital Library (http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...id/2723/rec/69)

Here are the back of the jail and a little of the workshop building in this c. 1900 pic from the corner of Broadway and Temple:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0df97288.jpg
USC Digital Library (http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...d/90118/rec/63)

Looking down Broadway in c. 1906 we see -- along with the shaded courthouse in the upper left quadrant of the photo -- a structure with smokestacks that according to the 1894 Sanborn map was behind (west of) the workshop, although they look to have been two halves of the same building. It housed a compression tank, steam plant, and oil and air pumps (seems like a big power plant just for that jail building; it must have also served the courthouse). Feeding the power plant, in the southwest corner of the courthouse lawn, was a 10,000-gallon crude oil tank with its top even with the ground.
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7eef11bb.jpg
USC Digital Library (http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...id/1725/rec/36)

I couldn't find out what this older jail was used for between 1902, when the next jail was built, and when it was torn down and replaced by the Hall of Records less than a decade later.


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