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AlvaroLegido Feb 21, 2013 9:13 PM

Cutted blocks
 
Remember this one ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6010983)

On the next photo, we see the railroad cutting the block between Los Angeles and Alameda starting north from the block on the previous photo (between San Pedro and Alameda).

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5297/...11bcb665_b.jpg
Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...NG-4129-T?v=hr

Wig-Wag Feb 21, 2013 11:50 PM

Cutted Blocks
 
[QUOTE=AlvaroLegido;6023666]Remember this one ?



On the next photo, we see the railroad cutting the block between Los Angeles and Alameda starting north from the block on the previous photo (between San Pedro and Alameda).

I think you nailed it AlvaroLegido.

At first I had a bit of trouble reconciling your aerial view with the street view, but after consulting a map of the Pacific Electric Los Angeles Terminal District it all fell into place and I can ad a bit more information.

The two car PE train seen above the double peaked roof has just turned off San Pedro Street on to Aliso Street, having departed the PE terminal at 6th and Main Streets. It will cross over the LA River on the old Aliso viaduct and continue on to the PE Eastern District and Northern District trackage for Pasadena and points east.

Going back to the street view, note that there is trolly wire visible above the street but not running into the "alley" as these spurs were called by the railroad crews. The trolly wire is for the PE cars. The alley is the Southern Pacific spur coming out of the now gong yard at Alameda and Macy streets.
At this point in time the spur would have been switched by steam locomotives.

This two track spur came off Alameda street and crossed over Aliso Street into the alley. There is a boxcar just visible behind the crossing gate at the extreme left of the picture. Two tracks can be seen entering the The LA Warehouse whose sign can be seen on the top of the building.

The freight operations in this area are described on the ERHA (http://www.erha.org/pelines/penterm.htm) site as follows:

"Due to franchise restrictions and to short radius curves, PE was unable to operate freight service over San Pedro Street or Main Street. The considerable number of cars destined from or received by the Southern District had to be handled by SP. This bridge arrangement began in March, 1920. It provided that SP would make the transfer between PE's yard at 8th & Alameda Streets and Macy Street via SP rails on Alameda Street."

Cheers,
Jack

ethereal_reality Feb 22, 2013 12:11 AM

:previous: Interesting aerial AlvaroLegido (and commentWig Wag)
and welcome to noirish Los Angeles 90004 and belmont bob!!
__





Here is the 'mystery' house again on Scarff Street. The fire was in 2006.

http://imageshack.us/a/img40/2558/aa...2309scarff.jpg
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23...20622681_zpid/






Looking good in 2010. (known as the Burkhalter House...built in 1895)

http://imageshack.us/a/img703/7233/a...in2006phot.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkhalter_Residence


Lwize, no..I don't think the house is blanked out on Google because it's a crack house.
If I didn't know better, I would think you were getting back at me for saying your 'mystery' building was a sex club. :)

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belmont bob Feb 22, 2013 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6023901)
:previous: Interesting aerial AlvaroLegido (and commentWig Wag)
and welcome to noirish Los Angeles 90004 and belmont bob!!
__





Here's the 'mystery' house again on Scarff. The fire was in 2006.

http://imageshack.us/a/img40/2558/aa...2309scarff.jpg
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23...20622681_zpid/






Looking good in 2010. It's known as the Burkhalter House.

http://imageshack.us/a/img703/7233/a...in2006phot.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/people/kansas_sebastian/


Lwize, no..I don't think it's blanked out on Google because it's a crack house.
If I didn't know better, I would think you were getting back at me for saying your 'mystery' building was a sex club. :) lol

__

Thanks for the welcome ethereal_reality….you have no idea what a grand discovery this forum was for me..But here is something that I think is rather unique…an old house that appears to have sustained heavy damage from fire, and apparently rebuilt with amazing detail and truth to the original design. The owners are heroes for not only the rebuilding but for that adherence to the details. No vinyl sliders and no stucco!!!!!

ethereal_reality Feb 22, 2013 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProphetM (Post 6019158)

originally posted by ethereal_reality
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-j.../echopark1.jpg
ebay



Here's an overhead view showing the corner of the house that I circled in the old pic:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N...955%2520PM.jpg

It's a two-story house, 5th property from the corner (after gas station, two apartments and one single-story house). It has a separate roof over the porch, which seems to me to match what little is visible in the old pic - where the eave of the main roof seemingly hangs out over another, smaller roof at the front of the house.

Next, the wall - going up Morton Ave. in Google Street View shows several properties in the right area with a low wall like the old pic:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E.../echopark2.jpg

So, it seems to fit I think, but is by no means conclusive. Oh, and as per the old pic, there was a streetcar line running down Echo Park Ave. from before 1900.


Great detective work ProphetM! NOW I understand...thanks a million.

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ethereal_reality Feb 22, 2013 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6023938)
Here is something that I think is rather unique…an old house that appears to have sustained heavy damage from fire, and apparently rebuilt with amazing detail and truth to the original design. The owners are heroes for not only the rebuilding but for that adherence to the details. No vinyl sliders and no stucco!!!!!

:previous: Well said belmont bob. I couldn't agree more.
__

Great story about the Hotel Pepper Mr. Swink.
(I've been out of town this week...now I'm busy catching up on all the posts)

belmont bob Feb 22, 2013 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6023946)
Well said belmont bob. I couldn't agree more.
__

I grew up in the Echo Park area, and there are so many older homes (like my old home) where the clapboard has been replaced by stucco and the old double hung windows replaced by new sliding windows of varoius styles... it really is too bad...my old home of 17 years was built in 1922 and it is a real mess.:slob:

gus37 Feb 22, 2013 1:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6023938)
Thanks for the welcome ethereal_reality….you have no idea what a grand discovery this forum was for me..But here is something that I think is rather unique…an old house that appears to have sustained heavy damage from fire, and apparently rebuilt with amazing detail and truth to the original design. The owners are heroes for not only the rebuilding but for that adherence to the details. No vinyl sliders and no stucco!!!!!

Indeed, that's a phenomenal restoration job after a devastating fire!

Unique for sure, and commendable... and for me that adds even more mystery around their decision to request the blurring (well-described here earlier as "pointless" I think). Maybe they just figured after all their work to rebuild, people ought to have to work a little harder to see it than dragging the little gold G-man onto their street?

...or it may have some relation to their perceived need to have this sign on their back gate:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2268/scarff.jpg
GSV
Quote:

Private Property
No Trespassing
Violators subject to arrest
This property is closed to the public
No entry without permission

ethereal_reality Feb 22, 2013 2:16 AM

Perhaps the 2006 fire was arson, which is something that would scare the 'bejesus' out of a property owner. -hence the security measures.
(of course that's only if they didn't start it themselves).

gus37 Feb 22, 2013 2:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6024065)
Perhaps the 2006 fire was arson, which is something that would scare the 'bejesus' out of a property owner. -hence the security measures.
(of course only if they didn't start it themselves).

Possibly. Seems like there was politics involved with getting it rebuilt too, so they may be extra edgy:
January 2007 letter from University Park HPOZ to insurance adjuster

House is #409 on this culturally historic LA monuments list

Picture of work in progress:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s%2C_CA%29.jpg
Wikipedia

If you click on the image for the high rez version, you can see that's the same private property sign from the back on the temporary fencing in front, so they maybe had to deal with squatters/vandals during the process too. I guess if they want to be paranoid now I won't fault them.

ethereal_reality Feb 22, 2013 2:49 AM

below: The building that I've outlined in red looks familiar but I can't place it. (it predates the old L.A. County Courthouse)

circa 1883
http://imageshack.us/a/img855/6411/aabflyingwedge1.jpg
originally posted by flyingwedge



below: Here it is several years later, slightly obscured by the courthouse.

http://imageshack.us/a/img27/2628/aabflyingw21891.jpg
originally posted by flyingwedgehttp://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=12567




below: The building in question also appears in this photograph I found on ebay.

http://imageshack.us/a/img560/8595/aabebaydec2012a.jpg

There's a good chance we have discussed this building before, but I can't recall it. (I have a terrible memory) :(
Was it an early county jail? -hence its close proximity to the county courthouse-

p.s. there are interesting buildings on the right hand side of the courthouse as well. --> pan

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ConstructDTLA Feb 22, 2013 3:42 AM

I'm surprised you guys arent talking about the murdered girl from Hotel Cecil... So creepy. So sad.

The video of her acting weird in the elevator gives me the willies.

rick m Feb 22, 2013 3:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6022929)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-g...349%2520PM.jpg
waterandpower.org/museum



Thanks so much for that bit of info. I'd actually looked a long time at that little compound, so different from the other yards on the block. It has a lovely six-bay east-facing porch too.

What else did Gillette build? Angels Flight is the only project of his that I'm aware of.

Not remembering the various mentions in my years ago reading of L A Times archives- but Gillette name also attached to orig. home @ s/w corner of S.Grand n 3rd St. -(#301 S.Grand) Col.Eddy entrusted him tho----

MichaelRyerson Feb 22, 2013 4:12 AM

This C.C. Pierce shot of Poundcake Hill seems to support the identification as being the jail.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8238/8...06117a53_o.png
Los Angeles County Court House and Jail on Poundcake Hill, ca.1895

Photograph of exterior Los Angeles County Court House and Jail on Poundcake Hill, ca.1895. Located on the south side of Temple Street between Broadway and Spring Street, on Poundcake Hill. Broad stairs approach the building from the corner. A stone retaining wall lines the sidewalk on the Court House side. About 10 horse-drawn carriages are parked on the street in front of the building. Utility poles and lines are visible. A flag flies from the uppermost clock tower of the building.

USC digital archive/Title Insurance and Trust, and C.C. Pierce Photography Collection, 1860-1960


Here you go, I think this shows us what you're talking about...I think we can see the high school has been moved and yet the courthouse hasn't yet been built. The small building we think may be the jail is up and can be seen just to the left of the distinctive roofline of St. Athanasius. At the base of this small building you can clearly see the dirt of Poundcake Hill and, in fact, I think the building may actually still be under construction.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8097/8...13ebe3a2_o.jpg
Main, Spring, Temple Sts., ca.1887

Summary: The junction of Main, Spring and Temple Streets circa 1887, showing the Temple Block, Downey Block and County Jail.

LAPL00014004


And lastly, and perhaps least compelling because of the resolution, I think you can see the 'jail' building showing as a dark rectangle in this 1887 aerial on an otherwise vacant Poundcake Hill...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8323/8...b350e392_o.jpg
Aerial of Los Angeles, 1887

Aerial photo of Los Angeles on June 27, 1887 taken from a balloon. North is to the left. Note the farmland south of Second Street and east of Main Street to the Los Angeles River. The town's population was a little over 20,000 at this time. The circular form of the Plaza is visible to the center left. Of particular note, Poundcake Hill (look for the stub of Court Street pointing directly at it) is vacated for the coming construction of the new county courthouse which will be dedicated next year, in 1888, while the high school building has been moved and is visible over on Fort Moore Hill just above California Avenue.

waterandpower.org

annotated view...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8467/8...0dfb149a_o.jpg
Aerial of Los Angeles, 1887, annotated


I've always liked this shot looking south down Broadway in 1902. The camera is in or on the courthouse and I think we may be looking down on the roof of the county jail building right here in the left foreground.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8069/8...fa330e0d_o.jpg
Los Angeles, 1902

"Downtown Los Angeles of 51 years ago–an era when a four-story building ranked as a skyscraper–is illustrated in a photograph received yesterday by The Times.

Mrs. Glenn Randolph Schreiner of Indianapolis, sent it after reading a copy of the Times Midwinter Edition.

“Looking at the pictures of your beautiful modern buildings,” Mrs. Schreiner wrote,”I remembered a picture mailed to me years ago by an uncle who was working in your city at the time.” The uncle, Sloan Randolph, now lives in Vashon, Wash.

The picture, taken from the old Courthouse Hill, is a view looking southward down Broadway. Near its center is the tower of the old City Hall, completed in 1888. The 183-foot tower looked down on many large residences with lawns and trees on nearby Bunker Hill. The tower later was cracked by the 1918 quake which badly damaged San Jacinto and Hemet, and it was lowered by removal of a 76-foot section.

Long-time residents can spot the Nadeau Hotel, which stood on the site of the present Times Building; the Tally-Ho Stables, just north of 1st St. on the west side of Broadway, and the Central Jail, still in use on 1st St. between Broadway and Hill St.

The city has multiplied in population about 20 times since this picture was made in 1902. The census listed a figure of 102,479 in 1900.

The City Hall, the Nadeau and the Tally-Ho are gone today but some of the store and office buildings shown on Boardway and Spring St. are still in use.

The Times Midwinter Edition was published every New Year’s Day from 1885 to 1954. The edition, with many large photos, promoted Southern California."


Los Angeles Times archives/Los Angeles Times Midwinter edition 1953

Arco Sinclair Feb 22, 2013 4:31 AM

More news from the creepy Hotel Cecil :drowning:LOS ANGELES (AP) — British tourist Michael Baugh and his wife said water had only dribbled out of the taps at the downtown Cecil Hotel for days.

On Tuesday, after showering, brushing their teeth and drinking some of the tap water, they headed down to the lobby and found out why.

The body of a Canadian woman had been discovered at the bottom of one of four cisterns on the roof of the historic hotel near Skid Row. The tanks provide water for hotel taps and would have been used by guests for washing and drinking.

"The moment we found out, we felt a bit sick to the stomach, quite literally, especially having drank the water, we're not well mentally," Michael Baugh, 27, said.

Los Angeles County Department of Public Health officials issued a do-not-drink order Tuesday while its lab analyzes the water, said Terrance Powell, a director coordinating the department's response. The disclosure contradicts a previous police statement that the water had been deemed safe. Results of the testing were expected by Thursday.

Powell said the water was also used for cooking in the hotel; a coffee shop in the hotel would remain closed and has been instructed to sanitize its food equipment before reopening.

"Our biggest concern is going to be fecal contamination because of the body in the water," Powell said. He said the likelihood of contamination is "minimal" given the large amount of water the body was found in, but the department is being extra cautious.

Powell said the hotel hired a water treatment specialist after the department required it to do so to disinfect its plumbing lines.

A call to the hotel was not returned.

The remains of Elisa Lam, 21, were found by a maintenance worker at the 600-room hotel that charges $65 a night after guests complained about the low water pressure.

Police detectives were working to determine if her death was the result of foul play or an accident.

LAPD Sgt. Rudy Lopez called it suspicious and said a coroner's investigation will determine Lam's cause of death.

Before she died, hotel surveillance footage showed Lam inside an elevator pushing buttons and sticking her head out the doors, looking in both directions. She was later found in the water tank.

Tami Abdollah can be reached at http://www.twitter.com/latams. Shaya Tayefe Mohajer contributed to this report posted on Yahoo news

JScott Feb 22, 2013 7:00 AM

Old Hall of Justice
 
(Sorry for the large image size, but it's necessary in order to show details.)

At the far right of the 1921 Baist map, "X" marks the spot of the Hall of Justice that preceded the one later erected at Temple and Broadway. I don't recall ever seeing a photo of this building. Has anyone else?

http://otters.net/img/lanoir/1921baistmap_crop.jpg
Historic Map Works



Also on the map, "†" marks the true historical location of St. Athanasius, at the southwest corner of Temple and New High. The parallel lines mark the present alignment of Spring Street. By this reckoning, the site of the church is now almost entirely in the roadway of present-day Spring Street.

Unless this approximation of the current alignment of Spring Street is in error, it would appear we split the difference between the church locations as depicted in the two photo superimpositions.

MichaelRyerson Feb 22, 2013 11:48 AM

The Hall of Justice, old and new.
 
(I do love those Baist maps) Both of the Halls of Justice (and the old City Jail) are here, under the superimposed lines for the Spring Street realignment...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8294/7...0d8c860f_o.jpg
proposed spring street cut

proposed spring street cut


USCdigital archive

JScott Feb 22, 2013 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6024402)
(I do love those Baist maps) Both of the Halls of Justice (and the old City Jail) are here, under the superimposed lines for the Spring Street realignment...


Ah, I remember this photo now. The old Hall of Justice wasn't much to look at, then, I guess.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6024184)
Here you go, I think this shows us what you're talking about...I think we can see the high school has been moved and yet the courthouse hasn't yet been built. The small building we think may be the jail is up and can be seen just to the left of the distinctive roofline of St. Athanasius. At the base of this small building you can clearly see the dirt of Poundcake Hill and, in fact, I think the building may actually still be under construction.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8097/8...13ebe3a2_o.jpg
Main, Spring, Temple Sts., ca.1887

Summary: The junction of Main, Spring and Temple Streets circa 1887, showing the Temple Block, Downey Block and County Jail.

LAPL00014004


I wish this image were a bit larger, because it kind of looks like the Court House is also currently under construction. I think I can just barely see the lower part of the clock tower sticking up over the roofline of that Victorian block to the right of St. Athanasius there. 1887 would be about right for that stage of construction, and it makes sense that an adjacent jail would be being built at the same time.

MichaelRyerson Feb 22, 2013 1:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScott (Post 6024421)
I wish this image were a bit larger, because it kind of looks like the Court House is also currently under construction. I think I can just barely see the lower part of the clock tower sticking up over the roofline of that Victorian block to the right of St. Athanasius there. 1887 would be about right for that stage of construction, and it makes sense that an adjacent jail would be being built at the same time.

Not sure I'm seeing what you're seeing, Scott. I can see the Bradbury/Potts mansion back there over the top of that Victorian block but I can't quite make out any part of the courthouse.

JScott Feb 22, 2013 1:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 6021665)
Also, to ProphetM: friggin awesome job! I knew when I saw that image of the church superimposed in the wrong place that it wouldn't be long before someone would put it in its proper location, and you did it better than I could have ever imagined. Bravo!


Quote:

Originally Posted by JScott (Post 6024319)
on the map, "†" marks the true historical location of St. Athanasius, at the southwest corner of Temple and New High. The parallel lines mark the present alignment of Spring Street. By this reckoning, the site of the church is now almost entirely in the roadway of present-day Spring Street.

Unless this approximation of the current alignment of Spring Street is in error, it would appear we split the difference between the church locations as depicted in the two photo superimpositions.



Neither view was historically accurate, as it turns out.


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