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nequidnimis Jul 29, 2007 12:10 AM

Being one of the tallest in town adds to the prestige of a building, and to the amount the owner can charge tenants. I am wondering how owners of the existing tallest buildings in S.F feel about this zoning change that will make their properties look short, and much less marketable...

kenratboy Jul 29, 2007 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reminiscence (Post 2977178)
For months now I've held the concept of building a tower around the height of 1500'. I've always tried to imagine it, but it seemed like people I talked to were not buying it when I mentioned it, saying it would be nice, but unlikely to get approved. I posted this a few pages back to provide something of a visual aide to what I was refering to. In this shot, the Transbay Tower appears at 1500', the tallest among the buildings in the central part of the skyline.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7...skylineoq7.jpg

1400' is very nice, but if they build it at my height, they would top both Taipei and Sears Tower with a higher roof, and it would become the tallest building in an earthquake zone, a testament to advances in earthquake technology. I felt as if the meeting dropped hints that such a thing is possible and that they've given it some serious thought. This along with Tyler's research makes me think we'll find this to be reality at the unveiling on August 6th. A stellar design combined with superb engineering and this supertall height should make this one building the whole world will keep its eyes on. I certainly hope I see this in a few days :).

You are the man, thank you!!!

I would be as giddy as a Japanese school girl at a Hello Kitty convention if this came to fruition, imagine the construction pictures as the tower hit 500, 750, 1000, 1250 feet and just towered above San Francisco. OH MY GAWD!!!

nequidnimis Jul 29, 2007 3:26 AM

It would make the rest of the high-rises downtown instantly obsolete...

kenratboy Jul 29, 2007 4:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nequidnimis (Post 2978208)
It would make the rest of the high-rises downtown instantly obsolete...

I would not go that far, it would just be another new, exciting, and beautiful addition.

The best views of Transamerica and BofA are from the north, looking south - or something like that. Honestly, don't think it will affect these buildings too much.

If these buildings were to surround Transamerica and BofA, that would not be too hot. These new buildings are going to be just south of Market (or SOMA if you like...), which isn't a very significant area in that these hi-rises will not block a whole lot.

What will change is the view as you drive by downtown on 80...but thats not a big deal. As it is now, you see a wall of skyscrapers a half mile away, now you will see some of the tallest buildings in the nation towering far above you :banana:

Plokoon11 Jul 29, 2007 4:57 AM

I bet LA would go nuts, and try to top SF. I could only imagine.

tyler82 Jul 29, 2007 6:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plokoon11 (Post 2978315)
I bet LA would go nuts, and try to top SF. I could only imagine.

They have quite a lot of catching up to do, skyscraper wise.

peanut gallery Jul 29, 2007 8:55 AM

Wow. Just wow:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...umoredshrp.jpg

Nice work, SFView.

San Frangelino Jul 29, 2007 2:59 PM

I am having visions of the Chicago Skyline from Lake Michigan, as seen from this photo by wlauber on Flickr.com

...but I certainly like the view!

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=740671706&size=l
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1376/...38069576_b.jpg

sfcity1 Jul 29, 2007 6:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nequidnimis (Post 2978208)
It would make the rest of the high-rises downtown instantly obsolete...

I actually think these towers are well situated. These new towers look like the tall guys standing behind the shorter guys and besides the new residential buildngs on the left and the older financial area to the right. It does not appear to take away from the embarcadero buildings either which have their distinctive lighting design in the evening.

roadwarrior Jul 29, 2007 6:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanut gallery (Post 2978459)

I personally love the look and agree that the Chicago lakefront analogy is a good one. My concern would be that if people are complaining about their views being destroyed with One Rincon, what will they think with towers twice as tall? My hope is that these people are becoming increasingly marginalized.

kenratboy Jul 29, 2007 6:38 PM

roadwarrior:

Look how far this project has come and how little opposition it has come across. Also, because the city is backing this project (not just some developer wanting to build a tall building), makes it even harder to do anything about it.

SFView Jul 29, 2007 6:55 PM

The central Transbay core will not block views of the Bay or Bay Bridge from Twin Peaks. From Twin Peaks, they will only block views of other tall buildings and the sky behind them. The current view experience of the San Francisco hills from most street, highway and residential locations will not change due to the taller towers.

tyler82 Jul 29, 2007 7:04 PM

Those things would be visible EVERYWHERE, possibly from San Jose/ Fremont area as well!

northbay Jul 30, 2007 3:20 AM

that skyline looks siiiickkk :slob:

new wallpaper :D

BTinSF Jul 30, 2007 3:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenratboy (Post 2978778)
roadwarrior:

Look how far this project has come and how little opposition it has come across. Also, because the city is backing this project (not just some developer wanting to build a tall building), makes it even harder to do anything about it.

The University of California San Francisco wanted a tall dormitory at Mission Bay. City College wants a tall building in Chinatown. These efforts were blocked by opposition applied to politicians who caved because the only organized voices were in opposition (until recently the Chinatown proponents of the City College building have gotten some organized a bit).

I do think the fact that certain city politicians have supported the idea--or at least, like Chris Daly, said height in itself isn't bad--is helpful, but I don't trust any of them IF one or more neighborhood organizations start to voice opposition.

kenratboy Jul 30, 2007 3:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTinSF (Post 2979474)
The University of California San Francisco wanted a tall dormitory at Mission Bay. City College wants a tall building in Chinatown. These efforts were blocked by opposition applied to politicians who caved because the only organized voices were in opposition (until recently the Chinatown proponents of the City College building have gotten some organized a bit).

I do think the fact that certain city politicians have supported the idea--or at least, like Chris Daly, said height in itself isn't bad--is helpful, but I don't trust any of them IF one or more neighborhood organizations start to voice opposition.

Obviously SOME people will complain, but a few angry voices here and there will not be too much of an issue - and also, I think times are really changing and this is more of a (positive) reality than some sort of burden the city has to bear.

viewguysf Jul 30, 2007 4:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFView (Post 2978808)
The central Transbay core will not block views of the Bay or Bay Bridge from Twin Peaks. From Twin Peaks, they will only block views of other tall buildings and the sky behind them. The current view experience of the San Francisco hills from most street, highway and residential locations will not change due to the taller towers.

As one who lives on Twin Peaks, I think that the super tall Transbay core would dramatically improve my view. It's the tall Rincon Hill towers that are and will be the most controversial.

viewguysf Jul 30, 2007 5:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTinSF (Post 2979474)
The University of California San Francisco wanted a tall dormitory at Mission Bay. City College wants a tall building in Chinatown. These efforts were blocked by opposition applied to politicians who caved because the only organized voices were in opposition (until recently the Chinatown proponents of the City College building have gotten some organized a bit).

I do think the fact that certain city politicians have supported the idea--or at least, like Chris Daly, said height in itself isn't bad--is helpful, but I don't trust any of them IF one or more neighborhood organizations start to voice opposition.

Again, a tall building in Mission Bay would be just as controversial as on Rincon Hill because it would block views that are currently not obstructed. Tall buildings in the heart of the downtown core, including around the Transbay Terminal, won't do this.

The City College controversy in Chinatown is a different story completely, driven by the Chinese investors who own the building that is now the Hilton (formerly the Holiday Inn Financial District/Chinatown). They don't want their views blocked for commercial reasons and are being hypocritical by trying to hide this fact.

BTinSF Jul 30, 2007 5:46 PM

^^^Everybody has their reasons and they don't have to seem logical to me or to you. I am simply saying it's possible that opposition to these buildings could emerge from an unexpcted quarter and some of the politicians you think are for them now could quickly switch sides.

Also, I do think there's a greater possibilty for objections from Twin Peaks than most of you seem to.

SFView Jul 30, 2007 6:46 PM

^^^I think that the City, as well as some of us on SSP, are well aware of these potential issues.

peanut gallery Jul 30, 2007 7:10 PM

Damn, SFView. I can't stop looking at your illustration. That skyline would look amazing.

Echo Park Jul 30, 2007 7:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler82 (Post 2978413)
They have quite a lot of catching up to do, skyscraper wise.

It's funny though since I'm pretty sure LA proper has more towers than SF. But if you wanna talk urbanity-wise, then LA has tons of catching up to do before it gets to SF's level.

SFView Jul 30, 2007 7:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanut gallery (Post 2980387)
Damn, SFView. I can't stop looking at your illustration. That skyline would look amazing.

^^^Thanks! That skyline rendering is only conceptual, and is already more than a half year old. It shows generic boxes and other assumptions that may have, and will be subject to change. The real future skyline that is still unknown, should actually look MUCH better! There should be some even more fantastic renderings and models of Transbay revealed on August 6, 2007.

Echo Park Jul 30, 2007 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanut gallery (Post 2980387)
Damn, SFView. I can't stop looking at your illustration. That skyline would look amazing.

Same here. I love skylines that apex while iconic towers like the Transamerica pyramid aren't dwarved by taller towers. Transbay would create that apex and some of those projects in mission bay and soma would balance out the skyline's southern side. I just hope Transbay towers will have a somewhat bold design..

nequidnimis Jul 30, 2007 9:28 PM

The contestants likely to produce the boldest designs (Foster, Calatrava), were eliminated (after not showing up in person at a meeting), or bowed out. That has left Pelli, S.O.M. and Rogers. Let's hope for the best.

BTinSF Jul 30, 2007 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFView (Post 2980341)
^^^I think that the City, as well as some of us on SSP, are well aware of these potential issues.

Then it makes less sense than ever to ignore them while salivating over a design which none of us have seen and really know nothing about yet.

I suspect in the end you are going to be very disappointed.

tyler82 Jul 30, 2007 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTinSF (Post 2980800)
Then it makes less sense than ever to ignore them while salivating over a design which none of us have seen and really know nothing about yet.

I suspect in the end you are going to be very disappointed.

As Cartman would say, "stop being a Negative Nancy" :yes: :yes: :yes:

BTinSF Jul 30, 2007 11:53 PM

I find things go better if you plan for the downside and try to anticipate the problems along the way. In this case, those who badly want these towers built should be prepared to do what some of us (but, no, not me I admit) did this week and go to whatever meetings are held on the subject and speak our piece in favor of them. Wouldn't hurt to write letters to those with influence, certainly including Supervisors (especially whomever represents Twin Peaks--and who might that be exactly?), although it probably makes sense to wait until the designs are known.

But I also admit I'll be very surprised if San Francisco allows 1400 ft towers. I can tell you for almost certain that the Fire Dept. will not be thrilled (but I don't know if they'll speak up). I'll be personally happy with something over 1000 ft. I'll be ecstatic if it tops the US Bank building (or whatever that LA "tallest" is) ;) . Something essentially twice as tall as everything around it may be a little bit out of place. And what I'm really holding my breath for is not so much the TransBay tower itself but the Piano design--it sounds like that could be really innovative and it could actually make or break the appearance of its neighbor.

tyler82 Jul 31, 2007 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTinSF (Post 2980844)
I find things go better if you plan for the downside and try to anticipate the problems along the way. In this case, those who badly want these towers built should be prepared to do what some of us (but, no, not me I admit) did this week and go to whatever meetings are held on the subject and speak our piece in favor of them. Wouldn't hurt to write letters to those with influence, certainly including Supervisors (especially whomever represents Twin Peaks--and who might that be exactly?), although it probably makes sense to wait until the designs are known.

But I also admit I'll be very surprised if San Francisco allows 1400 ft towers. I can tell you for almost certain that the Fire Dept. will not be thrilled (but I don't know if they'll speak up). I'll be personally happy with something over 1000 ft. I'll be ecstatic if it tops the US Bank building (or whatever that LA "tallest" is) ;) . Something essentially twice as tall as everything around it may be a little bit out of place. And what I'm really holding my breath for is not so much the TransBay tower itself but the Piano design--it sounds like that could be really innovative and it could actually make or break the appearance of its neighbor.

Lead by example. Go to the meetings, be a part of the discussion. Otherwise, you look pretty foolish lecturing us all on your version of reality.

Stepping Razor Jul 31, 2007 1:08 AM

I fully expect these towers to face some serious opposition from many quarters in this town, but I don't think people with views on Twin Peaks will be one of them. No matter how tall Transbay is, it won't block the Bay Bridge (or anything else of consequence) from Twin Peaks. Just look at a map and draw a straight line from the Bridge through 1st and Mission and see where it comes out the other side -- closer to Alamo Square than Twin Peaks. Transbay at 1400 feet has much less of a view impact than the Rincon Hill highrises at half the height.

Hopefully the design will be nice and the community benefits being squeezed out of it will be enough to get it approved.

Stepping Razor

mthd Jul 31, 2007 1:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTinSF (Post 2980844)
I find things go better if you plan for the downside and try to anticipate the problems along the way. In this case, those who badly want these towers built should be prepared to do what some of us (but, no, not me I admit) did this week and go to whatever meetings are held on the subject and speak our piece in favor of them. Wouldn't hurt to write letters to those with influence, certainly including Supervisors (especially whomever represents Twin Peaks--and who might that be exactly?), although it probably makes sense to wait until the designs are known.

But I also admit I'll be very surprised if San Francisco allows 1400 ft towers. I can tell you for almost certain that the Fire Dept. will not be thrilled (but I don't know if they'll speak up). I'll be personally happy with something over 1000 ft. I'll be ecstatic if it tops the US Bank building (or whatever that LA "tallest" is) ;) . Something essentially twice as tall as everything around it may be a little bit out of place. And what I'm really holding my breath for is not so much the TransBay tower itself but the Piano design--it sounds like that could be really innovative and it could actually make or break the appearance of its neighbor.

the fire department has recently created new local rules to address very tall buildings - they will not oppose a 1400 foot tall tower in principle. they may oppose certain aspects of the design or require certain additional precautions.

i konw everybody is very excited about this... but just wait a few days. you will not be disappointed by the competition submittals - or at least not by all of them. there is a lot of political support for this project and of all the very tall buildings being discussed and proposed in the city, this one has the greatest chance of success.

postulating that the (mostly unkown) design for the solit site will make or break the appearance of the (completely unkown to most here on the forum) design of the transbay tower is a little silly if ya ask me. which, of course, you didn't. ;)

nequidnimis Jul 31, 2007 2:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler82 (Post 2980934)
Go to the meetings, be a part of the discussion. Otherwise, you look pretty foolish lecturing us all on your version of reality.

I suspect online forums like this one have a wider audience than Planning Department workshops. But thanks, Tyler, for reminding us to do our civic duty.

djvandrake Jul 31, 2007 3:05 AM

All debate points aside, this project has the potential to completely remake the skyline of San Francisco and define it for several decades. This has to be one of the most exciting proposals out there and I can't wait for a few renders. :tup:

SFView Jul 31, 2007 3:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTinSF (Post 2980800)
...you are going to be very disappointed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mthd (Post 2981007)
... you will not be disappointed...

Right...

Wait until the 6th of August.

BTinSF Jul 31, 2007 6:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler82 (Post 2980934)
Lead by example. Go to the meetings, be a part of the discussion. Otherwise, you look pretty foolish lecturing us all on your version of reality.

I'm not a meeting goer (I've spent too many hours sitting through endless city government meetings waiting for the few minutes of discussion I cared about to come up, thanks), I'm a letter writer--which is why I asked which supervisor represents Twin Peaks. My Supe--Daly--may be a lost cause. You do it your way, I'll do it mine.

BTinSF Jul 31, 2007 6:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mthd (Post 2981007)
the fire department has recently created new local rules to address very tall buildings . . . . postulating that the (mostly unkown) design for the solit site will make or break the appearance of the (completely unkown to most here on the forum) design of the transbay tower is a little silly if ya ask me. which, of course, you didn't. ;)

I was talking about how members of the FD are likely to feel, not their public stance--as I said they are unlikely to make public. And I absolutely think a group of tall and attractive buildings of different heights near 1st & Mission will be much preferable to a single building sticking way above the rest--which makes the Piano complex very important--and you're right: I didn't ask for obnoxious hostility. You're wecome to tell me I'm wrong and why but telling me I'm "silly" is just boorish.

Reminiscence Jul 31, 2007 11:05 PM

Less than a week left for the big day. As some of the others said, they should be build as tall as they can. I for one am expecting the best, but I'm also prepared for the the worst.

rajaxsonbayboi Aug 1, 2007 12:37 AM

alittle off topic but anybody here working for an architechural firm here in sf? im lookin for an internship. now back on topic cant wait for those proposals so close i can almost taste it.

viewguysf Aug 1, 2007 4:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTinSF (Post 2981462)
I'm not a meeting goer (I've spent too many hours sitting through endless city government meetings waiting for the few minutes of discussion I cared about to come up, thanks), I'm a letter writer--which is why I asked which supervisor represents Twin Peaks. My Supe--Daly--may be a lost cause. You do it your way, I'll do it mine.

Letter writing is a good thing, though very much under utilized and appreciated these days. Market Street is the dividing line on Twin Peaks for the supervisor's districts. Above is District Seven and below is District Six; those living on opposite sides of the street are in different districts. It also divides the Congressional districts between Tom Lantos above and Nancy Pelosi below.

CityKid Aug 3, 2007 4:21 PM

I'm so excited! I can't wait until Monday.

kenratboy Aug 3, 2007 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CityKid (Post 2988882)
I'm so excited! I can't wait until Monday.

I could not agree with you more.

Pandemonious Aug 3, 2007 6:25 PM

I have seen something I think is this project. This will be an interesting competition, and you guys will not be disappointed if the rest of the proposals are evn half as cool.

Dolemite Aug 3, 2007 9:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandemonious (Post 2989155)
I have seen something I think is this project. This will be an interesting competition, and you guys will not be disappointed if the rest of the proposals are evn half as cool.

How do you know it is for the Trasbay project...as opposed to the rumored supertalls at Wolfpoint, Kinzie Street, LSE or the project next to river city :D

Pandemonious Aug 3, 2007 10:19 PM

^Because Chicago doesn't have an 850' Pyramid skyscraper in its skyline, nor a large Golden colored suspension bridge.

Reminiscence Aug 3, 2007 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandemonious (Post 2989155)
I have seen something I think is this project. This will be an interesting competition, and you guys will not be disappointed if the rest of the proposals are evn half as cool.

Where, if I may ask, did you happen to come accross the proposal?

craeg Aug 3, 2007 11:26 PM

How exciting. Something new and actually tall by global standards - proposed in the most architecturally conservative city in the country!

SFView Aug 4, 2007 5:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandemonious (Post 2989155)
I have seen something I think is this project. This will be an interesting competition, and you guys will not be disappointed if the rest of the proposals are evn half as cool.

That doesn't include being half as tall does it?;)

kenratboy Aug 4, 2007 6:06 PM

2 days!!!

(and that was my 500th post!)

pizzaman355 Aug 4, 2007 10:05 PM

If anyone goes on August 7th, please get a ton of pictures. I can't wait to see the design!

pizzaman355 Aug 4, 2007 10:10 PM

I'm really wishing that sf builds a tower over 1,000ft, hopefully 1300-1500 ft tall. If Nashville can build a tower over a 1,000 ft, I think san francisco can


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