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-   -   The Brightline/Virgin Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=198371)

Hatman Jul 11, 2019 4:38 PM

I wonder how much time these new stops will add to the trip time between Orlando and Miami? Perhaps this means that they are looking at an express service with fewer stops and a local service, possibly going only between Miami and West Palm Beach? Could this be the first step in an evolution to have VTUSA run their own private version of the Coastal Link? Tri-Rail is moving so slowly towards extending service to VTUSA's Miami station that it would probably take them another decade to start the Coastal Link line on their own. Maybe VTUSA doesn't want another entity running on their tracks, or maybe - because so much of Miami Central's profitability is dependent on real estate which is dependent on high passenger through-put, perhaps VTUSA is getting impatient with Tri-Rail and wants to start Costal Link now, even if it means doing it on their own?

So many questions!

Also - I like the idea of using the rail line to the Port to give access to cruise ships, but I don't know if building a full station at the port makes sense. Trains stopping at that station would have to bipass Miami Central, which is where most people presumably want to go. Also, the railhead in the port can be as far way from the terminals as a half mile, and that seems like an inconvenient distance for passengers to walk considering that it would be through a very industrialized port area.
I think it would make more sense for them to run a trolley service from the ground level of Miami Central out to the Port, sort of like they are proposing to run a separate railcar to a Disney station from the Orlando station. The trolley could stop at each cruise terminal, like a shuttle in the airport, for added utility. Nobody likes a transfer, but in the case of the port, if luggage is delivered in a van straight from Miami Central onto the ship, this could be seen as a convenience rather than an 'extra step.'

I will trust whatever VTUSA comes up with eventually, but it's fun to speculate!

N830MH Jul 12, 2019 8:53 PM

Boca Raton potential site of new Virgin Trains station

http://www.bocaratontribune.com/boca...E6LPdBuZqnRjnU

N830MH Jul 23, 2019 9:13 PM

Virgin Trains Says New Stations At PortMiami, Aventura & Boca Raton Expected To Be Operational In 2020

https://www.thenextmiami.com/virgin-...VmcojdXhOeegxw

Let the speculation begin!

mrnyc Jul 28, 2019 3:53 PM

i was recently driving around downtown west palm beach and wow is the brightline station sharp looking. that is all. :tup:

urbanview Jul 29, 2019 12:46 AM

The REAL problem with this train is not just that it's slow as all hell, but that the horn is blown nearly constantly because of the level crossings throughout the trip. All that obnoxious honking is not very pleasant for passengers and it's not pleasant for people living around the tracks. It's not an experience a European would enjoy anyway. They'd be laughing and cringing. A grade separated solution would be better. Would it be possible to bridge/tunnel the road crossings in the future?

It's a god fracking shame that your governor vetoed the real HSR trains years ago that could have been world class transit and eventually been extended around Florida. Now that you have this god forsaken pathetic excuse for a railway, the transit hating politicians/right wingers can say "we have a train, no more for you". Cute, good job Florida. Also, Branson branding this train is just a money play, he's probably laughing his ass off secretly at such a third world railway.

urbanview Jul 29, 2019 12:51 AM

del

SpawnOfVulcan Jul 29, 2019 1:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanview (Post 8644027)
The REAL problem with this train is not just that it's slow as all hell, but that the horn is blown nearly constantly because of the level crossings throughout the trip. All that obnoxious honking is not very pleasant for passengers and it's not pleasant for people living around the tracks. It's not an experience a European would enjoy anyway. They'd be laughing and cringing. A grade separated solution would be better. Would it be possible to bridge/tunnel the road crossings in the future?

It's a god fracking shame that your governor vetoed the real HSR trains years ago that could have been world class transit and eventually been extended around Florida. Now that you have this god forsaken pathetic excuse for a railway, the transit hating politicians/right wingers can say "we have a train, no more for you". Cute, good job Florida. Also, Branson branding this train is just a money play, he's probably laughing his ass off secretly at such a third world railway.

Precisely how fast do these trains run through the average, minor, city-center? I understand they run through high population areas, so speed is something that needs to be a constant concern.

I know it's not an intercity service, but travel times between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham on the Crescent Line will blow by Birmingham's outer city-centers at around 50 mph... relatively high for a long range route.

bobdreamz Jul 29, 2019 3:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanview (Post 8644027)
The REAL problem with this train is not just that it's slow as all hell, but that the horn is blown nearly constantly because of the level crossings throughout the trip. All that obnoxious honking is not very pleasant for passengers and it's not pleasant for people living around the tracks. It's not an experience a European would enjoy anyway. They'd be laughing and cringing. A grade separated solution would be better. Would it be possible to bridge/tunnel the road crossings in the future?

It's a god fracking shame that your governor vetoed the real HSR trains years ago that could have been world class transit and eventually been extended around Florida. Now that you have this god forsaken pathetic excuse for a railway, the transit hating politicians/right wingers can say "we have a train, no more for you". Cute, good job Florida. Also, Branson branding this train is just a money play, he's probably laughing his ass off secretly at such a third world railway.

There is something like 50+ crossings between downtown Miami & W. Palm Beach. Do you realize how expensive that would be?

electricron Jul 29, 2019 4:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdreamz (Post 8644131)
There is something like 50+ crossings between downtown Miami & W. Palm Beach. Do you realize how expensive that would be?

Additionally, the responsibility for improving highways belongs to the state, the responsibility for improving streets belongs to the city, the responsibility for improving private roads belongs to the property owned. The railroad is only responsible for the tracks and other railroad property within the railroad corridor.

If cities, counties, and states want grade separated crossings, it is their responsibility to fund and build it.

202_Cyclist Jul 29, 2019 2:47 PM

We're planning a trip to South Florida next year and the problem with Brightline is the cost. Yes, the stations and trains do look nice but from West Palm Beach to Miami, the tickets cost between $15 - $22 per person compared with $6.90 per passenger for Tri Rail. I think it is difficult to justify paying as much as $30 more per trip (if traveling with two people) for a nicer experience at the station.

UrbanImpact Jul 29, 2019 3:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanview (Post 8644027)
The REAL problem with this train is not just that it's slow as all hell, but that the horn is blown nearly constantly because of the level crossings throughout the trip. All that obnoxious honking is not very pleasant for passengers and it's not pleasant for people living around the tracks. It's not an experience a European would enjoy anyway. They'd be laughing and cringing. A grade separated solution would be better. Would it be possible to bridge/tunnel the road crossings in the future?

It's a god fracking shame that your governor vetoed the real HSR trains years ago that could have been world class transit and eventually been extended around Florida. Now that you have this god forsaken pathetic excuse for a railway, the transit hating politicians/right wingers can say "we have a train, no more for you". Cute, good job Florida. Also, Branson branding this train is just a money play, he's probably laughing his ass off secretly at such a third world railway.

The trains are now silent running through South Florida.....no horns for the Virgin or the freight trains. I live along the tracks.

bobdreamz Jul 29, 2019 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist (Post 8644303)
We're planning a trip to South Florida next year and the problem with Brightline is the cost. Yes, the stations and trains do look nice but from West Palm Beach to Miami, the tickets cost between $15 - $22 per person compared with $6.90 per passenger for Tri Rail. I think it is difficult to justify paying as much as $30 more per trip (if traveling with two people) for a nicer experience at the station.

Well I guess it depends on what your priorities are in cost vs. time. TriRail is cheaper but it has many more stops in between the two cities and leaves you further west of most destinations.

urbanview Jul 30, 2019 1:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact (Post 8644337)
The trains are now silent running through South Florida.....no horns for the Virgin or the freight trains. I live along the tracks.

That's good, because the video I watched had the horn going the whole time.. Must have been an old video?

Well, at least passenger comfort won't be as bad. Still, not a very European-like train with its diesel, low speeds and road barriers!!! You can see America still has long way to go in trains..

electricron Jul 30, 2019 2:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanview (Post 8644890)
That's good, because the video I watched had the horn going the whole time.. Must have been an old video?

Well, at least passenger comfort won't be as bad. Still, not a very European-like train with its diesel, low speeds and road barriers!!! You can see America still has long way to go in trains..

Wow! You read it here first, there are not any road barriers, slow trains, or diesel locomotives in Europe.

UrbanImpact Jul 31, 2019 5:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanview (Post 8644890)
That's good, because the video I watched had the horn going the whole time.. Must have been an old video?

Well, at least passenger comfort won't be as bad. Still, not a very European-like train with its diesel, low speeds and road barriers!!! You can see America still has long way to go in trains..

The trains are just as nice or nicer than their European counterparts. I've been on many of them minus the ICE. As far as the road barriers, there would be no other way other than tunneling through out all of South Florida, or elevating the whole track through South Florida which would make it too expensive. There's no other right of ways through the 3 continuous metropolises other than the other set of tracks on the CSX line that has the same situation.

hammersklavier Jul 31, 2019 7:09 PM

The Brightline uses very similar technology as the InterCity 125s up in the UK.

Does that mean it is about a generation out of date? Surprisingly ... No. Train speed only matters as long as the physical plant itself can handle it (this is the biggest problem on the NEC). The IC 125 runs along routes like the Midlands Main Line, Great Western Main Line, etc., which were not updated and electrified like the WCML and ECML were, and they and their successors (the DMU Azuma IIRC?) will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

plutonicpanda Aug 1, 2019 7:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8581530)
I want to be stoked but this should have been done under a statewide high speed rail program using electrified trains operating at 180mph. And that likely could have been operating already if it wasn't for the good-ol-alien-next-door Rick Scott.

This might come as a shock but I completely agree with you.

IMO. there also should NOT be any at grade crossings and a minimum average speed of 150 MPH should be had. Passes for students, poor/disadvantaged, military, and elderly should be free or discounted for intercity travel.

plutonicpanda Aug 1, 2019 8:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatman (Post 8601840)
This problem is most specific to the San Bernardino line, but exists on others as well. Here is one of the sections where I have no idea how capacity could ever be added:

https://www.metrolinktrains.com/glob...-reduction.jpg

It really speaks to LA car-culture. Measure the width allotted to cars, and compare that to the width for trains. Then consider that even then the train has been handicapped by having only one track, and it becomes even more depressing.

This is also why it will be so important to run trains all the way into Los Angeles. Sure, trains can run with a higher top speed on an exclusive ROW in the desert, but that is not (generally) where the congestion and delays occur. Very few people going to drive through all the traffic jams of Los Angeles only to park their car at Victorville - the moment they emerge from all the congestion that has been driving them nuts.

Very simple idea but not so simple to actually implement. Tunnel the rail and use the median where the rail currently is to build an elevated freeway to add more lanes for cars. It's a win-win for everyone. Better train service and better flowing traffic.

UrbanImpact Aug 1, 2019 1:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda (Post 8646934)
This might come as a shock but I completely agree with you.

IMO. there also should NOT be any at grade crossings and a minimum average speed of 150 MPH should be had. Passes for students, poor/disadvantaged, military, and elderly should be free or discounted for intercity travel.

Do you understand how many miles long it is through the metro of South Florida? +/- 73 miles of tunnel between West Palm Beach and Miami....... The best option would be to elevate the line over the existing tracks, but, that would be expensive as well and not go well with the NIMBYS. There's also no space to bridge the streets over the tracks.

N830MH Aug 2, 2019 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact (Post 8647030)
Do you understand how many miles long it is through the metro of South Florida? +/- 73 miles of tunnel between West Palm Beach and Miami....... The best option would be to elevate the line over the existing tracks, but, that would be expensive as well and not go well with the NIMBYS. There's also no space to bridge the streets over the tracks.

Excuse me! There is no tunnels. They don't have a tunnels in South Florida.


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