The floor space for this site is equal to the floor space of the original World Trade Center. That is just so cool.

But the old WTC contained around 12 msf of office space. This is office, residential, commercial, and hotel space around 12 msf.

That's what I'm saying.

:???:

Right, people (media included) often confuse the Hudson Yards redevelopment plan with the railyards development that is a part of it. The specific Hudson Yards redevelopment plan that was approved by the City covers every thing in the Hudson Yards district from the railyards, to towers like the Girasole and Manhattan West, and the new Hudson Boulevard around which most of the towers will rise.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/hyards/proposal.shtml

http://hydc.org/html/home/home.shtml


http://hydc.org/includes/site_images..._map_large.gif


http://hydc.org/html/home/home.shtml



http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/hyards/hymain.shtml

My apologies. I thought people were suggesting there was going to be 40m square feet of development just from 10th Avenue West between 31st and 33rd Streets, which of course is absurd. That would require a site-wide FAR of over 50 by my calculations.

Numbered days for the Javits?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...b43fe476a792c8

NY gov seeks Aqueduct convention center, casinos

By MICHAEL GORMLEY
Jan 4, 2011

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...ADQO07SXKX.DTL

Cuomo Calls for Biggest U.S. Convention Center in New York City

Esmé E. Deprez
January 4, 2012


_______________________________________________




http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...120109978/1072

Cuomo wants nation's biggest convention center

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...q=100&MaxW=800

By Jeremy Smerd
January 4, 2012



______________________________________


http://www.scribd.com/doc/77151117/SOS-Book

(page 9)

It is mind boggling to think of the sea of supertall structures that this area will have in 20years!

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI...566-326885.jpg
http://www.superstock.com/stock-phot...es/1566-326885

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...come&mg=id-wsj

NY POLITICS
JANUARY 5, 2012
Another New Idea for the Javits Center

By JOSEPH DE AVILA

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's plans to redevelop the West Side facility and build a new convention center in Queens come as the Javits Center is searching for a new chief executive and is completing a $500 million renovation.

Making the announcement in his State of the State address, Mr. Cuomo summed up what critics have said about the state-owned Javits Center for years: It is too small and outdated to host world-class events in the nation's largest city.

"Right now the Jacob Javits Center is not competitive," Mr. Cuomo said, adding that it is smaller than convention centers in cities like Anaheim and Atlanta. "That hurts the New York economy."

Replacing Javits would be what Mr. Cuomo billed as the country's largest convention center, a private venture proposed near the Aqueduct Racetrack and a casino in the South Ozone Park section of Queens. The plan would add the Javits site as another prime parcel of developable land in a fast-growing part of Manhattan near the Related Cos.' Hudson Yards project and Moynihan Station.

Under Mr. Cuomo's plan, the 18-acre Javits Center site would become a mixed-use facility that could include housing, hotels and office space. It would be modeled, Mr. Cuomo said, after the Battery Park City Authority, which signs long-term leases with private developers and provides revenue to the state. Small and midsize conventions could still take place at Javits, while larger shows would happen in Queens. The Cuomo administration estimates that more than $2 billion in private-sector investment would flow into a redeveloped Javits Center.

Carl Loewenson, chairman of the New York Convention Center Operating Corp. that runs the Javits Center, declined to comment on Mr. Cuomo's speech.

Mr. Cuomo's plan is the latest effort by the state to reconfigure the Javits Center, which was built in 1986. Ever since, governors have made halting efforts to expand the center, which is currently in the midst of a $500 million renovation that includes an 80,000-square-foot addition scheduled to be completed in two years.

The Queens convention center proposal—on which Mr. Cuomo's Javits plans hinge—would face significant obstacles.

Malaysian gaming company Genting Americas would have to obtain financing for a 3.8-million-square-foot facility that would cost more than $1 billion at a time when construction loans are hard to get, industry experts said. A Genting subsidiary already runs a casino at the racetrack.

The Queens location could be another hurdle because many tourists prefer to stay in Manhattan with easy access to restaurants and Broadway, said Steven Spinola, president of the Real Estate Board of New York, an industry association.

"Part of the planning will have to be the transportation to get people around the city of New York," Mr. Spinola said. "But if you make it big enough and make it exciting enough, I think you will be able to overcome that."

Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the Aqueduct area would be a "decent location."

"I think all of us agree that we need a bigger convention center," he said. "It would be a great idea to get it done."

Christian Goode, senior vice president of development of Genting Americas, said in a statement: "It's a great time to invest and grow in New York, and we are thrilled to be able to play a role in creating jobs and increasing tourism."

Mr. Cuomo's vision for the Javits Center would open for development a Manhattan parcel of land that the governor said was "larger than the World Trade Center and the United Nations."

"This becomes the biggest development parcel in the city," said Bob Yaro, president of the Regional Plan Association, which had pushed for a similar plan for Javits last year. "It's the opportunity to create a large mixed-use district that would complement the Hudson Yards site."

The proposal comes as the Javits Center has hunted for a new chief executive for several months after its longtime leader Gerald McQueen stepped down last year. Mr. McQueen had been credited for rooting out the mob corruption at the center and helping it turn profits from fiscal year 1997 to 2009.

The center's financial health declined after the 2008-09 recession. Shows have become smaller, and there have been fewer of them as more groups opt for video conferencing instead of traditional conventions, Mr. Loewenson said.

"People have recovered from the shock of the financial crisis, but it's still not back to where it was before 2008," Mr. Loewenson said.

Then what was the point of giving Mr. I.M Pei all that hard work in the 70's when you're just going to tear it down. Well more buildings the better (if done right).

Thanks for the articles. I can't even begin to imagine how nice that area will be in 20 years if this plan for a new convention center goes through. Seems like it will, the Javits Center was deemed too small basically the day it opened if I'm not mistaken.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/ny...in-queens.html

A Convention Center at Aqueduct Is Urged

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
January 4, 2012

I don't know why they opened a convention center in Manhattan, yet there isn't a football stadium for either of the two teams, always really surprised me. But in my opinion Manhattan should be mostly BUILDINGS.

NIMBYs already out with ideas of their own for the Javits site...
http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-conten...NA_1420122.pdf

Convention centres are buildings. And what's a football stadium got to do with anything?

A city's principal convention centre should be within walking distance of thousands of hotel rooms where the conventioneers will be staying, or at least a VERY short cab or transit ride away. Putting a huge convention centre way the hell out in Queens, miles from where most of the hotels are doesn't make much sense to me.

^ I think Manhattan wouldn't mind being one exception, becuause there's just too much demand for buildings. WHY? Money. Why did the old Penn Station get demolished for a new toilet complex? Money. So I would expect the Javits to go but not yet. I think they're still doing an expansion.

It makes sense to me to keep some kind of convention center in Manhattan. It is the center of the city and the center of the world. Build one in Queens if you want, but never rule out one in Manhattan. The bigger, the better. With New York, you are always building for years down the road, not just the next year or two. I hope the plans continue for this development though. It is very exciting.

With the Javits getting an expansion, it would be foolish to immediately demolish it. The Javits should remain standing and redeveloped to become more modern and large enough to host major events and trade shows. Having to travel to the outskirts of Queens for trade shows is a bit inconvenient unless mass transit is approved. After all, there is nothing wrong with having NYC be the home of two major convention centers. Most tourists to NY almost never venture outside of Manhattan.

The current expansion is a minor one. And even with that it will still be under 1 msf. In short, it's a convention center that isn't serving the purpose it was intended to. Now with the redevelopment of the Hudson Yards, that land has become increasingly more valuable, especially as the largest development site in Manhattan. Years ago, it made sense to put it there because nothing was there, but now there is a chance to correct that.

I won't discuss the merits of a convention center in Queens because that's another thread.

Then why not put the convention center on the east side, south of the UN, and we got all this extra space then.

Because the land in Manhattan is far too valuable for a low-slung convention center.

And that land you're referring to was sold by Con Edison for about $5 billion maybe 10 years ago. Can you imagine what it's worth now?

Why would the state spend billions for Manhattan land (and billions more for construction costs), when it can get a free convention center in Queens?

And pretty much all major global cities have their convention centers outside of the core. London, Paris, Tokyo all have convention centers on the fringe.

Hotels are a non-issue. There are no major hotels close to Javits anyways. Genting plans 3,000 hotel rooms on the Queens site.

Exactly.

If the LIRR link is opened some day, transit won't be a problem. Also, it is near the airport which is very convenient for visitors arriving for conventions, especially if the rail link is direct from JFK and hotel facilities are built.

Well, if the Javits will be demolish, i hope for a new super complex project like this:

http://static.flickr.com/69/198571330_a4e0eed66d.jpg

or for a single office/hotel tall tower... :tup:

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/442/nyse1.jpg

This sounds overly ambitious, however I think that as time progresses and space in Manhattan becomes more scarce, a hulking building such as the Javits Center is almost counter productive as it eats up too much valuable land. A modern convention center located in proximity to JFK would make much more sense IF the proper transportation accommodations were in place. I hope Cuomo remains consistent with this and pushes it through.

http://archpaper.com/news/articles.asp?id=5833

Lucky Seven: New York's 7 line extension steams ahead.

http://archpaper.com/uploads/image/7_subway_01.jpg
Detail of the lower mezzanine's arc.


Jan 7, 2012


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_04.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_05.jpg
Workers prepare a new communication center beneath Eleventh Ave. as ventilation rises at right.


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_10.jpg
Subgrade work continues for parkland entrance to subway.


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_04.jpg
Two tunnels run east to meet the park entranc


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_01.jpg
Cross section from left to right (west to east) shows tracks and lower mezz, escalators, upper mezz, and park entrance.


More images...

http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_03.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_07.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_02.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_03.jpg

Are the Hudson Yards towers going to have their own entrances to the stations, or will workers have to walk outside just to get to the subway? The pdf brochure they released a few months ago didn't seem to show any entrances from the towers interiors.

I think a few will. That's the reason I'm certain the Girasole is delayed, because they have to complete the stations underneath the site. Most of the buildings won't.

The HKNA plan for the Javits site is better than I thought it would be. It restores the street grid to most of the site without cluttering the WSH up with too many intersections, and connecting the whole neighborhood to the waterfront with a bridge over the WSH.

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7359/javitts.png

I do think that it has more green space than necessary though.

That would really be something - I love the idea of connecting the area with the waterfront.

The problem with that plan is it doesn't include much for office develoment. But when the state does develop a master plan for the site, it will of course include space for office development, similar to the BPC plan. The City is trying to create a new office district in that area. Turning over that much space to primarily residential development would be a mistake. There are few places to expand the commercial districts of Manhattan. Even given the time it will take to develop the existing sites zoned for office in the Hudson Yards, eventually those too will dry up. Meanwhile, residential towers and complexes go up all over Manhattan and the rest of the City. Residential's fine there, at least some. But I wouldn't wanna get carried away with it on that site.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...301089973/1009

Javits' end promises new dawn for W. Side
Redeveloping the six-block-long property overlooking the Hudson will give a huge boost to efforts
by the government and a growing number of developers to recreate the long-desolate far West Side of Manhattan.


http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...q=100&MaxW=800

By Theresa Agovino
January 8, 2012

So what are the chances of the hideous Javits Center being demolished? Very good?

Please please please make it happen!!!!

Also, 450 West 33rd Street is so disgusting. Any plans to demolish?!

http://s3.amazonaws.com/trd_three/im...articlebox.jpg

The chances of Javits being demolished now or in the imminent future? Very slim.

The chances in a decade or two? Very high.

450 West 33rd Street is the Daily News Building, so I wouldn't bet on it being demolished. It's the current headquarters for one of the city's major newspapers. But not as beautiful as their old east side building on 42nd Street.

450 West 33rd Street is also the home to WNET Channel 13, highly unlikely this building will be demolished anytime soon.

^ That's what I said. It's the headquarters or includes tenants such as the Associated Press, WNET/Channel 13, Lerner New York, Coach, Barney's, and two City of New York agencies, and the Board of Elections and Financial Information Services Agency, and ofcourse the headquarters of the fourth major newspaper in the U.S the Daily News. But I did say it'll be gone in 15-20 years, now that's a guarenDAMNtee.

^^^I wouldn't count on it . . it's a perfectly fine building that meets the needs of those who occupy it. At a minimum it may go through a rehabilitation . . . I think that's a more realistic and likely scenario considering the transformation the neighborhood will be going through.

It would be a major expense and undertaking to bring down a structure of that size . . regardless of whether something similar has been done before.

The Javits will be demolished in 3 - 5 years, but not before the replacement opens in Queens, which will be no earlier than 2014-15. It's going to come down quickly because it's valuable land and the state wants (needs) the money. They'll develop a master plan for the site before then. It's state land, so it won't need to go through the City's approval process, which is what happened with the rest of the Hudson Yards rezoning. They keep pointing to Battery Park City as a model, so expect something along those lines, but not a duplicate.

Well it better be a masterpiece of a master plan, because the New Jerseyans like the master of the New York threads nyguy will loose the masterful view of the 1930's masterpiece the Empire State Building and Midtown

This building will almost certainly be demolished and replaced during the next economic cycle.

It's zoned for 3.1 million square feet of space, and was purchased by a major development firm. Their subsequent leases all have demolition clauses.

100,000 sqft floor-plates . . . this building isn't going anywhere. Brookfield has too much in the pipeline to even think about redeveloping this site. I tend to believe that the only changes to this site will modernizing the existing structure . . and that'll be down the road as the area becomes more developed and modernized itself.

But then again . . were all just speculating . .

I agree. There's no way that building won't be razed in 15 or 20 years. It has tons of air rights.

http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/01/0...omment-page-1/

The Upside of Cuomo’s Convention Center Plan: Urbanism on the West Side

http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-conten...t_side_map.jpg


by Ben Fried
Jan 9, 2012



What the earlier, Hudson Yards expansion looked like, before plans were scrapped for a much smaller extension.

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/140863867/original.jpg


And then there was the hotel...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/140863972/medium.jpg

http://www.rpa.org/2012/01/remaking-...west-side.html

Remaking the Far West Side

By Bob Yaro, President, RPA
Jan 12, 2012

NYC is changing so quickly it becomes incredible.

As a Foreigner who first came in 1985 and almost every year since then until 2005, I can tell how much the city has changed. When you see NYC only once a year, it's like seeing a child growing every summer.

No other cities in the occidental world is as dynamic and as fast growing than NYC. Times Square has become a forest of high rise, The west side west of Lincoln center has become a forest of High rise. The city is safer, cleaner and now the 1980 corner stone of the redevelopment of the west side is about to be demolished to give birth to a New Battery park like project. It took time, but at least the job will be done.

The new buildings planned for the Hudson Yards development are not architecturally speaking "perfect" to my point of view, but I can only say bravo to a city which always look forward to build its future.

Bravo NY. :tup:

New York has a lot more competition from cities around the world now for corporate space, and in the past hasn't really kept up with modern office supply. The problem has been talked about for a long time, but here we see plans in motion to make things possible.

There may be yet another massive rezoning for Midtown proper...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=197082

I looked at the thread and was quite outraged. But that's another topic. Regarding the development of NYC, I know that cities (mainly in Asia) are advancing at a much faster pace. NYC may have old buildings but London, Paris, Frankfurt, Milano are way behind in terms of growth and change. I know that London is building a lot of high-rise but they are still way behind you.
So, good job, it must be exciting to see your hometown endlessly changing for the best. It's not like our European cities which have become open air museums...

That's one of teh things I would like like to see changed about the HKNA plan. The new strip of park and residential buildings facing the park would be nice, but I'd really like to see a row of office towers along 11th ave.

That would add another 10-15 MSF of office space while still keeping a decent amount of room for residential development. It would be good to have the towers step down in size as they head north from the yards, so as to not overwhelm the existing residential along 42nd street.

Something like this:
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/585/hknaplanmod1.png

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3378/hkmod2.jpg

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3153/hkmod3.jpg