Would a megatall be possible in Phase 2? Javits Center could give up its air rights? Residential and hotel maybe.

Javits will likely be demolished in the coming years, and probably moved to Sunnyside Yards. That site may be Phase 3 of Hudson Yards.

That sounds promising. So long as there's enough transport to that area to support a convention center.

Aren't they literally expanding it right now as we speak?

Javits isn't going anywhere, nor should it.

Definitely not true. Cuomo almost moved Javits to LIC a few years ago, and the reason the expansion was shrunk is because everyone recognizes it's going to move.

Javits won't be there in 15 years, count on it. The state would be losing out on billions and the city would lose about 20 million square ft. of development in the middle of Hudson Yards. And obviously the convention business needs an up-to-date center; Javits was out-of-date even 30 years ago.

There could hardly be a more idiotic land-use decision than putting a giant one-floor warehouse space in the middle of Hudson Yards. It makes the destruction of Penn Station look like genius.

If I could downvote this I would. Have you even been inside Javits Center? Its much more than one floor,

I want to see a rendering of 50 Hudson, The Spiral and Girasole all together if it’s possible pls

50hy, spiral and what is now "girasole" are all forgettable disappointments that could have been interesting designs. They are just mega corporate containers, not real architecture. A picture of th m is going to be like looking at cardboard or wallpaper, a massive snooze.

I wouldn't go THAT far, but yeah those towers could have been a lot bolder. The Spiral is being developed on land that was once touted before Speyer-Tishman set on the current design as potentially an 1,800 building called the Hudson Spire which always was a vision rather than a concrete proposal, but it set up the soaring possibilities that the Bjark Ingels model falls considerably short of even with its massive square footage. 50 Hudson is conservative, but classy...3 Hudson Boulevard(The Girasole) is the most disappointing because the original renderings showed distinctive angles and character which Moinian pulled back for whatever cost containment and corporate pragmatism. They're fine as is, but it's so true they truly could have been special.

Can't wait for Phase II. Its really going to solidify this perspective.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...104775af_k.jpg
baronsonphoto-20191231-052.jpg by Brian Aronson, on Flickr

hudson square to hudson yards


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• Video Link
Jan 26, 2020

the shed opened a year ago today:


http://email.wordfly.com/view/?sid=O...rceNumber=3398

Then (2011) and Now (2020)
 

A view of Manhattan's Midtown skyline from Weehawken, NJ. The image on top is from 2011 and the image on bottom is from May 2020.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYFRXEDX...g&name=900x900

Source: @GaryHershorn

Watch in 4K and full screen. Just like more cow bell, we need more full screen!!!!



• Video Link

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well that was a quick and disasterous hello goodbye.

anchor neiman marcus is on the way out of the hudson yards mall. it will be replaced by the facebook.

nm had filed for bankruptcy in may.


https://nypost.com/2020/06/22/neiman...e-to-facebook/

Jacob K. Javits Center’s $1.5B Expansion Progresses In Hudson Yards

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NYY

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Well, that tower is certainly different.

I can't wait till all those Lincoln Tunnel approaches are platformed over with new development.

What the hell with the low flying jet? Just plain weird and then something else even more.

Damn Neiman-Marcus is out

https://www.6sqft.com/neiman-marcus-...-hudson-yards/

First of many sadly. In the main though, Hudson Yards could well be the last big 'office' complex ever built in Manhattan. I mean is there a chance of Phase 2 not happening? If there is little to no demand in office space?

Working from home is the future that has come much earlier. The office as we've known it is dying right before our eyes. I mean why are earth would a company continue to pay premium Manhattan prices when you can downsize to one of the other boroughs and have most of your staff work from home most days?

At this point I really hope 2WTC is built. I mean they have already concluded 5WTC will have residential/hotel space right? If 2WTC doesn't have a design/start date by the end of next year then I will really fear for it.

lol wow who could have seen this coming? good luck with the giant soulless placemaking failure of hudson yards... who wants to make some bets on when Nordstrom goes under? :haha:

Hudson Yards is far from a failure.

And why would you joke about people losing their jobs?

Phase 2 is mostly residential so i don't see it as not happening. The residential portion is their cash cow since most of the office were done at cost.

Ah right. I suppose some office space plans can be converted to more residential/other use to get a building built. Then again we don't yet know how much damage will be done to the potential market of folks looking to buy a place in this climate.

I guess the likes of Facebook are ones to watch if they in the future still want all that floor space in HY.

From the older renderings, there's just one tower probably in the 1,000-1,000 ft area deemed for primarily office space preliminary dubbed West Tower or something like that? Then seven or eight residential towers between 500-900 ft or so...looks like they want to be more individually creative with these.. some affordable rentals (or I guess "affordable" in a Manhattan context... didn't see specific income ranges) though the vast majority is going to be market rate rental, if I'm not mistaken? Supposed to have schools and plenty of park land as well.

From the older renderings, there's just one tower probably in the 1,000-1,100 ft area deemed for primarily office space preliminary dubbed West Tower or something like that? Then seven or eight residential towers between 500-900 ft or so...looks like they want to be more individually creative with these.. some affordable rentals (or I guess "affordable" in a Manhattan context... didn't see specific income ranges) though the vast majority is going to be market rate rental, if I'm not mistaken? Supposed to have schools and plenty of park land as well.

I don't find it to be a laughing matter, how insensitive.

i always thought the mall would have a rough go even before corona. major retail will probably work better there eventually when the western yards are completed and there is much more built in residential.

The mall has some of the highest rents for indoor space in Manhattan. It's extremely valuable space. Neiman Marcus went bankrupt due to skyrocketing debt issues preceding the pandemic.

Also, if the space wasn't valuable, Neiman Marcus would have kept the space. That's the whole point. They're trying to raise money to survive, so have been marketing their most valuable leases.

I am constantly baffled by anyone who still see's a future in the standard 20th century concept of a 'mall'

Not sure why. In wealthy cities like New York, shopping is an activity that requires a physical venue, which makes it less likely to be substituted with online purchases. Retail is a broad category - some kinds of purchases/buyers are more likely to switch to online than others. A wealthy tourist in New York is far more likely to visit a physical store for a designer handbag (because shopping is just something that tourists do) whereas a middle-class family in Ohio shopping for blue jeans may switch to online. For that reason I don't see the Fifth Avenues and Rodeo Drives going anywhere - the insane rents and construction budgets may moderate, but I don't see the shopping districts going away.

As for malls, they are just aggregations of individual stores and their ongoing success/failure will depend on the factors I mentioned above. These are different than the factors of the past. The old adage is that "retail follows rooftops" but people are moving more and more of their day-to-day purchases online, so having residential nearby will matter less, even dense residential. Physical retail in the future may depend far more on being a destination for tourists and people from across the region, so having excellent transportation links and unique offerings are more important than ever. A mall at Hudson Yards may do just fine, given the tourist draw of the Vessel and the huge volumes of people at Penn Station/Port Authority nearby.

I'm baffled that people believe that consumers will no longer want to consume in social environment.

"Malls" (aka clustered retail) have existed since the Roman era, possibly earlier. They're here to stay. Of course there will be radical evolutions, but in-person consumerism won't go extinct.

And everyone will work from home. You didn't hear?

Important context

https://www.6sqft.com/king-nyani-gor...la-abzug-park/

A giant gorilla sculpture is coming to Hudson Yards


AUGUST 6, 2020
BY DANA SCHULZ




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https://lovethelast.com/pages/meeting-nyani


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...g?v=1593064668

i never really saw anybody in the hy mall in any numbers, and more gawkers than buyers, so i cant imagine it was doing well pre-covid. one of the problems was there was nothing unique about hudson yards shops, other than neiman marcus, which was unique for nyc at least and is now gone.

as it stands, the anchor site may not come back as retail at all, facebook was considering it. maybe the mall can adjust and try to be a new destination eventually, but the foreseeable reality is retail is in for an even rockier road ahead:

https://www.cpexecutive.com/post/amp...ovid-19-world/

^ That's funny, because everytime I went through there it was pretty full. Now, whether or not people were just "looky loos" (like me), I couldn't tell you, although there were people with obvious bags.

But this "mall" (I use quotes because it's not a typical mall) is really 5th Avenue in a box. Related delayed the opening once because the wanted to wait until some of the office towers were open. I still think it was an early opening, because the neighborhood isn't there yet, and hasn't been built. But that's ok. This thing is new, it's way to early to be talking about a failure or success. It's a place that still doesn't even exists in most people's minds, despite how much we here at the forum may have talked about it. New York is a very large city, with many competing places. And by the way, retail in general hasn't been at it's greatest everywhere. But people know 5th Avenue for what it is. They know Broadway for what it is. They know Grand Central. They know the Garden. Those places have been around, and are easily identifiable. When the Hudson Yards becomes more of a fabric of New York, and can really anchor a developed west side as its centerpiece (which could be a decade away), then we can come out and discuss where we are with it. But it's really way too early to even suggests a failure of anything here. As I've said, I've been through there a bit, and still couldn't really tell you what's in there. And I watched the place get built from the ground up. So there probably are more "looky loos" right now, trying to figure out the place. But that's good.

^ exactly. as i said, the mall, if it works and doesn't become a glorified manhattan mall type disaster, at best will come into its own more when the area is more built out. we'll see.

Beautiful!

^ fay wray and bruce cabot approve! :haha:

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Gorilla is here...



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Wish they could have put this in front of the ESB.

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wash your hands after you monkey around on that!

For sure. I love seeing the interaction though. In fact, I can look at a whole book of it.



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More so than this, lol...



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