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Obey Sep 7, 2010 3:46 PM


Originally Posted by Mr. Lion (Post 4972467)
can someone explain to me exactly what the situation is (what plan, status, ect.)

This has to be one of the most confusing projects to me. I would also love an explanation/status. :shrug:

NYguy Sep 7, 2010 4:21 PM


Originally Posted by Obey (Post 4972955)
This has to be one of the most confusing projects to me. I would also love an explanation/status. :shrug:

Keep in mind that this thread isn't just about the railyard development, but the entire Hudson Yards redevelopment (see page 1). As far as the railyard development goes, there are two halfs. When the Hudson Yards rezoning was approved by City Planning and the Council a few years ago, it was assumed a new Jets stadium would be standing on the western half of the railyards. Obviously that's not going to be the case, so that half was rezoned to fit in with the master plan that Related has for the site.

Here's the EIS for the Hudson Yards as approved (2005):

And the Western yards addition...

As far as any actual design goes, it's a blank slate. Related has a 100 (or so) year lease of the Yards, but won't actually have to start paying until the economy improves. There are three marks to meet for the payments to kick in, and one has recently been met.

Obey Sep 7, 2010 4:44 PM

:previous: Thank you so much and yes I remeber the whole Jets Stadium thing. It is all coming together yes.

thelanetrain17 Oct 9, 2010 3:28 AM

does anyone know if there are going to be any supertalls in this huge project?

SkyscrapersOfNewYork Oct 9, 2010 3:31 AM


Originally Posted by thelanetrain17 (Post 5009901)
does anyone know if there are going to be any supertalls in this huge project?

a few actually

thelanetrain17 Oct 12, 2010 8:44 PM


Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 (Post 4938969)
First post, anyways saw this a few days ago, and looked for this update but didn't see it. From the WSJ.
(Full article on page 11 - post 213)

i dont see any supertalls. haha but i might be wrong.

SkyscrapersOfNewYork Oct 12, 2010 9:10 PM


Originally Posted by thelanetrain17 (Post 5013257)
i dont see any supertalls. haha but i might be wrong.

thats not an actual rendering its a conceptual rendering revealed by the NY times. no one knows what will go here we'll just have to wait a few years to see.

but heres a few proposals.

NYguy Oct 13, 2010 12:19 AM

Beyond the railyards, there are also a number of other planned supertalls in the Hudson Yards, a couple being the Girasole and Sherwood's potential office building. Extell's former World Product Center will also be developed with a similarly large project.

SkyscrapersOfNewYork Oct 13, 2010 12:23 AM


Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5013493)
Beyond the railyards, there are also a number of other planned supertalls in the Hudson Yards, a couple being the Girasole and Sherwood's potential office building. Extell's former World Product Center will also be developed with a similarly large project.

any news on the WPC site? all the drilling has stopped recently

NYguy Oct 13, 2010 12:28 AM


Originally Posted by SkyscrapersOfNewYork (Post 5013495)
any news on the WPC site? all the drilling has stopped recently

That site has been cleared for a while now, and work going on there has to do with the subway station that is scheduled to open in 2013. Extell own's the site which is zoned for a large commercial skyscraper.

SkyscrapersOfNewYork Nov 3, 2010 12:21 AM

tear it down, lets build...


Magic-Knicks Postponed for MSG Safety Concerns

The Orlando Magic-New York Knicks game at Madison Square Garden was postponed Tuesday because of safety concerns after debris fell into the arena during overnight cleaning of asbestos-related materials.

Saying it was using "an abundance of caution," MSG released a statement saying it consulted with the NBA and decided to postpone the game, and wouldn't reopen the building until it was assured the arena was safe.

A spokesman for New York City's Department of Environmental Protection, Farrell Sklerov, said the agency's inspectors were on the scene and had determined that no asbestos had been released.

Garden officials, he said, apparently became concerned after two air quality monitoring stations set up in the arena seating area were triggered while a crew was clearing debris from the building's attic.

Subsequent testing, however, revealed that the dust particles that set off the alarm didn't contain asbestos fibers. The material is only dangerous if it is damaged, produces airborne dust and is inhaled.

The work was done by maintenance staff in the attic above the ceiling following the New York Rangers' game and prevented workers from laying down the Knicks' hardwood floor. The ice surface was still down as of Tuesday afternoon.

In its statement, MSG said it would work with the city and independent experts ATC Associates and GCI Environmental Advisory to determine the next steps.

"As the safety of our customers and employees are our top priority, we will not reopen the Garden until we are absolutely assured the arena is safe," the statement said.

ATC and GCI did not immediately respond to messages left by The Associated Press.

No makeup date for the Magic-Knicks game has been announced. MSG said it would provide information about future events once they have been determined. The Knicks are scheduled to play at home against Washington on Friday. The arena will host Roger Waters: The Wall Live on Saturday, and the Knicks and Rangers will play a doubleheader Sunday.

NYguy Nov 3, 2010 3:56 PM

The aging apple
Older office stock, little commercial construction puts NYC behind global competitors when it comes to new office space

November 01, 2010
By Peter Kiefer


With a rapidly aging pool of commercial towers, New York has fallen behind dozens of other international cities, which are adding state-of-the-art office space to their building stock at far faster rates than the Big Apple.

Just 2.6 million square feet of office space was under construction here as of the end of June, ranking Manhattan an abysmal 34th in a list of international cities producing new, modern commercial space, according to a review by Colliers International. That number only includes 1 World Trade Center, but if 4 World Trade Center, which is also under construction now, is factored in, the number jumps to 4.9 million square feet.

Still, according to Cassidy Turley, in 2009, just two office buildings were delivered in New York: One Bryant Park and 510 Madison. So far in 2010, 11 Times Square, the Goldman Sachs tower, 41 Cooper Square, and 400-404 First Avenue have all been finished, and 450 West 14th Street is expected to be completed by the end of the year. That means by year's end, 3.73 million square feet of space will have been delivered in Manhattan.

Yet even with that combined with the more than 10 million square feet planned to come online over the next five to 10 years at the World Trade Center site, New York City is still lagging behind many of its international counterparts.

Overall, the construction of new office towers, like all construction, has been depressed in New York. That reality has some observers worried about whether New York will be able to compete globally to attract international corporate tenants.

The reasons for the lack of commercial construction are varied. For starters, the economic downturn has put a freeze on credit and the brakes on construction. In addition, while lower than they were during the boom, land and construction costs remain relatively high compared to a number of other cities -- and political red tape and bureaucracy in the city are notoriously messy.

There are projects on the drawing board, but many of them don't have shovels in the ground yet. For example, the Related Companies, which has delayed its development plans for the Hudson Yards on Manhattan's Far West Side because of the downturn, is now beginning to consider some development projects there.

At The Real Deal's annual forum last month, company president Jeff Blau said the firm won't start new construction in New York for at least 18 months, but he said there has been a "tremendous amount of corporate interest," and Related is working with several potential commercial tenants who would look to take more than 1 million square feet of space.

At present, though, both New York and London -- which have been locked in a head-to-head struggle for the title of the world's "financial capital" -- must reckon with surging cities like Shanghai, Singapore, Moscow and Sao Paulo, among others. Those cities are leaving London and New York in the dust when it comes to adding new, state-of-the-art office supply. Technology may be making the world smaller, but these other emerging cities -- hungry for their share of the global economic pie -- are only getting bigger.

"I wouldn't call it alarming yet, but it is of great concern to me. I think we live on a larger playing field than we used to," said Vishaan Chakrabarti, the head of the Real Estate Development Program at Columbia University's School of Architecture. "What I see is a leapfrogging taking place [by other cities] in terms of new buildings."

Take Shanghai, which ranked at the top of Colliers' list with 37 million square feet of office space being constructed right now -- and what research manager Colin Bogar of Colliers calls a "never-ending stream of new construction over the coming years."

In Shanghai's Pudong District alone, the city will soon have the world's second-tallest tower -- the Shanghai Tower at 2,073 feet -- which is part of a trifecta of new office buildings being built. (The two others are the 88-story Jin Mao Tower and the 101-story Shanghai World Financial Center.) All three structures are incorporating the newest in sustainability technology, like rainwater recycling systems for heating and cooling and built-in wind turbines to create on-site power. Colliers believes the market will "adequately absorb the new supply" with an office vacancy rate of around 10 to 15 percent, Bogar said.

For its part, Moscow (which ranked second in terms of building, with about 30 million square feet under construction)[/color][/b] will have the City Palace Tower, a mixed-use development with 860,000 square feet of offices due for completion in summer 2011. Meanwhile, Dubai (ranked third, with 28 million square feet under construction) is currently developing the massive Business Bay complex, which by the end of this year will have 3.6 million square feet of additional space, 7 million by the end of 2011, and 11 million by the end of 2012, though that space will likely be hard to fill. Last month, Bloomberg News reported that the overall office vacancy rate in the emirate is 40 percent.

To be fair, unlike many of these other urban centers, Manhattan has already gone through several building booms over the past 80 years.

But New York's existing pool of office space, while extremely large and enviable by most standards, poses its own set of problems. Almost 90 percent of the 450 million square feet of existing Manhattan office space was built before 1970, according to the Real Estate Board of New York. That means 40 years of environmental, technological and engineering advances were not factored into the construction of a huge portion of New York's office buildings (with the exception of office retrofitting).

This comes at a time of heightened concerns about sustainability among multinational corporations. More and more Fortune 500 companies are imposing stricter criteria for the sustainability of their corporate headquarters, looking to boost their environmental bona fides and cut operating costs by occupying state-of-the-art, LEED-certified towers.

Last year, the Bloomberg Administration passed legislation to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from existing government, commercial and residential buildings in New York. When the legislation passed, the mayor's office predicted 85 percent of the existing buildings will be in use in 2030 -- a clear indication that it expects much of the current stock of office towers will be retrofitted.

Margaret Castillo -- president-elect of the New York chapter of the American Institute of Architects, and a leading proponent of retrofitting -- said New York's stock of Class A buildings are all designed well enough to be upgraded through a reexamination of their insulation, airflow, lighting, carbon dioxide monitoring and building controls. The problem, she said, is with Manhattan's Class B buildings.

Others, like Columbia's Chakrabarti, think building new towers might be more efficient.

"I do think that we have to consider a world further out where we ask what kind of zoning and tax policy do we need in place which would then make it more sensible to tear down a skyscraper and put up a new one," he said. "We can't stick our heads in the sand like ostriches."

scalziand Nov 3, 2010 4:16 PM


"I do think that we have to consider a world further out where we ask what kind of zoning and tax policy do we need in place which would then make it more sensible to tear down a skyscraper and put up a new one," he said. "We can't stick our heads in the sand like ostriches."
I can think of one...

NYC4Life Nov 3, 2010 4:47 PM

Please tear down the Garden!! I don't see what's the point spending upwards of $800 Million to renovate this dinosaur of an arena. The Garden's glory days have long passed, time for a new arena.

yankeesfan1000 Nov 3, 2010 5:22 PM

Agreed about the Garden, I mean asbestos fell onto the court a few days ago, and the game was cancelled. It's a dump.

NYguy Nov 17, 2010 3:02 AM

New York Studies Extending Subway Line to New Jersey

November 16, 2010


Ever since Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey killed an expensive plan for a new commuter rail tunnel to Manhattan, the Bloomberg administration has been working on an alternative: run the No. 7 subway train under the Hudson River.

The plan envisions the No. 7 stretching from 34th Street on the Far West Side of Manhattan to Secaucus, N.J., where there is a connection to New Jersey Transit trains. It would extend the New York City subway outside the city for the first time, giving New Jersey commuters direct access to Times Square, Grand Central Terminal and Queens, and to almost every line in the system.

Like the project scuttled by Mr. Christie, this proposed tunnel would expand a regional transportation system already operating at capacity and would double the number of trains traveling between the two states during peak hours. But it would do so at about half the cost, an estimated $5.3 billion, according to a closely guarded, four-page memorandum circulated by the city’s Hudson Yards Development Corporation.

Unlike the old project, the new plan does not require costly condemnation proceedings or extensive tunneling in Manhattan, because the city is already building a No. 7 station at 34th Street and 11th Avenue, roughly one block from the waterfront. In July, a massive 110-ton tunnel boring machine completed drilling for the city’s $2.1 billion extension of the No. 7 line from Times Square to the new station.

Still, the proposal faces a number of daunting political, financial and logistical hurdles in an era of diminishing public resources. Mr. Christie, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Governor-elect Andrew M. Cuomo of New York would have to agree to make the tunnel a high priority and work in lock step to obtain the city, state and federal funds needed to make it happen.

“Extending the 7 line to New Jersey could address many of the region’s transportation capacity issues at a fraction of the original tunnel’s cost, but the idea is still in its earliest stages,” said Andrew Brent, a spokesman for the deputy mayor for economic development, Robert K. Steel. “Like others, we’re looking at — and open to discussing — any creative, fiscally responsible alternatives.”

Mr. Christie had not yet received a formal briefing on the idea, but his office said it was curious to hear more.

“We’ve been open to ideas for solving the trans-Hudson dilemma, ideas that are affordable and fair amongst the interested jurisdictions,” said Michael Drewniak, a spokesman for Mr. Christie.

Last month, Mr. Christie, a Republican, put an end to the long-planned Hudson rail tunnel project after the estimated cost climbed to at least $11 billion, from an initial $8.7 billion. The project would have created two new tracks for New Jersey Transit from Secaucus to a new station deep under 34th Street, near Pennsylvania Station. The federal Transportation Department had pledged $3 billion, as had the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. But New Jersey was responsible for the rest of the money.

The federal transportation secretary, Ray LaHood, described Mr. Christie’s decision as “a devastating blow to thousands of workers, millions of commuters and the state’s economic future.”

The two sides are now wrangling over Mr. LaHood’s demand that New Jersey repay $271 million the federal government has spent on the project.

City officials had initially hoped that they could recapture the $3 billion pledged by the federal government, but that no longer seems possible, and the project will most likely have to compete with others around the country for the money. A spokesman for Mr. LaHood declined to comment on the proposal on Tuesday.

Another obstacle is the lengthy environmental review required of such projects, but officials are hoping to be able to use much of the work already done for the tunnel that was killed.

And it is unclear whether New Jersey is willing to redirect to the No. 7 train project the money it had originally intended for the tunnel plan, which was known as Access to the Region’s Core, or ARC. “The issue again will come down to, what will Governor Christie say,” said Jeffrey M. Zupan, senior fellow for transportation of the Regional Plan Association.

It is very likely that the Port Authority would have to be involved, since it has condemnation powers in both New York and New Jersey, unlike the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which oversees the city’s subways.

Lawrence S. Schwartz, the top aide to Gov. David A. Paterson, said Tuesday that the Bloomberg administration had not yet formally presented the plan to Mr. Paterson but that similar ideas had been discussed in the past. The governor, Mr. Schwartz said, was “intrigued” by the broad outlines of the administration’s plan and looked forward to hearing more details.

“Getting cars off the road, reducing congestion and providing another access point for commuters between New York and New Jersey is going to benefit the region from a job-creation and development standpoint,” Mr. Schwartz said.

A spokesman for Mr. Cuomo said that the proposal had recently been circulated to the governor-elect’s transition team but that there had been no high-level discussions so far.

Aside from relieving congestion on the rails, the proposal also would benefit New York’s real estate industry, because it would include an $800 million subway station at 10th Avenue and 42nd Street, an area with limited public transportation and a number of new residential towers. The station was part of the Bloomberg administration’s plan for the No. 7 extension, but was cut to trim costs.

And the project would almost certainly serve as a boon for the planned $15 billion Hudson Yards residential and office development, to be built on platforms over the West Side railyards. That project has been stymied by the recession and an absence of demand for new residential and commercial space.

Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, expressed his support for the plan.

“This is a bold idea that must be given serious and immediate consideration,” Mr. Schumer said. “Building the ARC tunnel and extending the 7 line for a second stop are both critical to growing the New York economy for the coming decades, and I will fight to deliver any available federal funds to make that happen.”

At a reception in Manhattan on Monday night, Stephen M. Ross, chief executive of Related Companies and the developer for the Hudson Yards project, spoke to Mr. LaHood enthusiastically about the idea of running the No. 7 to New Jersey.

“I think it’s a great idea and it could save a ton of money,” Mr. Ross said Tuesday.

Busy Bee Nov 17, 2010 3:50 AM

Woah. Now this would be something.

NOPA Nov 17, 2010 6:02 AM

So if they did extend the 7 into New Jersey the station at 10th and 42nd would be back on? I would love to see this happen.

NYC2ATX Nov 17, 2010 6:22 AM

WOW. That was really'd be incredibly interesting, and to have the 10th Ave station. Truly and intriguingly fantastic. :rolleyes:

NYguy Nov 17, 2010 2:22 PM


Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 5058205)
Woah. Now this would be something.

It would change the dynamics of mass transit in the area. For one thing, Jersey commuters could catch a train in Jersey directly to Grand Central and the east side, as well as the redeveloped west side. Suddenly the 7 line extension could be more than it was planned to be. If they're not going to go forward with ARC - and at this point they aren't - it would be a good deal if they could work this out.
Let 7 train go to NJ: Mike

November 17, 2010


Mayor Bloomberg wants to extend the No. 7 train into New Jersey -- the first time any New York subway train would leave city limits.

The mayor's plan would continue the subway line from its stop at 34th Street and 11th Avenue, which is still under construction, to Secaucus, NJ, where it would connect to every New Jersey Transit suburban line.

"Like others, we're looking at -- and open to discussing -- creative, fiscally responsible alternatives," Andrew Brent, a spokesman for Deputy Mayor Robert Steel, said last night.

The idea, which is still in a very preliminary stage, would be to use the partially built tunnel that would have brought Amtrak and NJ Transit trains to Penn Station before New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie killed it, citing potential cost overruns.

The feds and Port Authority had each committed $3 billion to the original project, and that money could go toward funding the No. 7 extension.

"Extending the 7 line to New Jersey could address many of the region's transportation-capacity issues at a fraction of the original tunnel's cost," Brent said.

The estimated cost would be $5.3 billion -- about half that of the original plan, sources said.

The West 34th Street station is slated to open in December 2013.

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