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-   -   Oldest city in the world (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=240980)

Danie Nov 16, 2019 1:30 PM

Oldest city in the world
 
What city is the oldest in the world ?

iheartthed Nov 16, 2019 3:06 PM

Damascus

Crawford Nov 16, 2019 3:11 PM

You mean continuously settled geography? I think Damascus is commonly agreed to be oldest.

montréaliste Nov 16, 2019 3:26 PM

Damn, ask us what the oldest city on earth is, and all you get is Damascus, over and over again.

IluvATX Nov 16, 2019 4:34 PM

Cusco, Peru is the oldest in the Americas. Over 3000 years continuously inhabited.

jd3189 Nov 16, 2019 4:53 PM

It’s actually Jericho.

mousquet Nov 16, 2019 5:20 PM

That must be something of ancient Mesopotamia, although ancient Egypt (that must be slightly later in ancient records) definitely built much more significant things. Ancient Egypt is usually seen as the mother of all later civilizations, even though it all started in Mesopotamia that invented stuff like the first characters that would leave experience and ideas to following people. That was something like writing back then, thousands of years ago.

Notice that in the completely idiotic fight over superior races (widely fed by bigotry in the US), people with dark skins constantly have to say that ancient Egyptians (before Arab conquers) were Black Africans. Well yes, they certainly were. You simply take a look at sarcophagi at the Louvre museum, you easily realize they were Africans. It's no secret, huh. In real life, things weren't like in ancient Hollywood movies.
I bet their really best looking girls haven't even got the privilege of a golden sarcophagus.
It doesn't matter. The dead don't care about their burials. The best of them leave their wrecks to science, usually medical students. That's what I'll do of my body when I'm dead. Straight back to the university so students can dissect my butt.

I don't even particularly like history, cause it's so fucking full of pathetic ugly mistakes, but I guess people still need to be aware of details like this.

10023 Nov 16, 2019 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousquet (Post 8750443)
I don't even particularly like history, cause it's so fucking full of pathetic ugly mistakes, but I guess people still need to be aware of details like this.

Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.

Also, ancient Egyptians did not look like sub-Saharan Africans, at least not in the region of Alexandria or Cairo. They weren’t Arab either. Nor were there Turkic people in what is now Turkey. These were all Mediterranean people who were not blond-haired (although Ancient Greek and Roman prostitutes often dyed their hair blond), but did have light skin and I think sometimes even blue eyes. They didn’t look quite like modern Syrians or Greeks either, as the Arab expansion during and following Mohammed and the later Turkic expansion into Anatolia created some different admixture by the Middle Ages.

And the “something” was population density. That’s the main factor in the development of civilisation. For example Greece exceeded the carrying capacity of their arable land, and then started colonising the Mediterranean.

mousquet Nov 16, 2019 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8750536)
Also, ancient Egyptians did not look like sub-Saharan Africans, at least not in the region of Alexandria or Cairo. They weren’t Arab either. Nor were there Turkic people in what is now Turkey. These were all Mediterranean people who were not blond-haired (although Ancient Greek and Roman prostitutes often dyed their hair blond), but did have light skin and I think sometimes even blue eyes. They didn’t look quite like modern Syrians or Greeks either, as the Arab expansion during and following Mohammed and the later Turkic expansion into Anatolia created some different admixture by the Middle Ages.

I kinda know about all of this, but the looks of those people don't even matter, because they've disappeared. They're all gone, you know?

I'm worried about lots of Black folks today. Not all of them, though. Some (usually educated) are doing fine. But lots of others are feeling lost, desperately looking for some reason to be, and this is our time, right now.

I don't give a shit what ancient Egyptians looked like. I'm even laughing at writing this. That's not our issue. We need people to be happier at our present time.

Sun Belt Nov 17, 2019 1:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8750536)
Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.

Also, ancient Egyptians did not look like sub-Saharan Africans, at least not in the region of Alexandria or Cairo. They weren’t Arab either. Nor were there Turkic people in what is now Turkey. These were all Mediterranean people who were not blond-haired (although Ancient Greek and Roman prostitutes often dyed their hair blond), but did have light skin and I think sometimes even blue eyes. They didn’t look quite like modern Syrians or Greeks either, as the Arab expansion during and following Mohammed and the later Turkic expansion into Anatolia created some different admixture by the Middle Ages.

And the “something” was population density. That’s the main factor in the development of civilisation. For example Greece exceeded the carrying capacity of their arable land, and then started colonising the Mediterranean.

First Briton from 10,000 years ago:
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018...7936566146.jpg


Side note: isn't it amazing how quickly skin will turn white in a period of 10,000 years!

eschaton Nov 17, 2019 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189 (Post 8750424)
It’s actually Jericho.

This is commonly thought, but Jericho was abandoned at many different periods.

Byblos in Lebanon may qualify, as it's been inhabited for 9,000 years, and a city for 5,000.

None of the old Mesopotamian cities survived - probably because of the shifting locations of the rivers, and how the early irrigation practices eventually left salt deposits which made it impossible to grow crops there.

Sun Belt Nov 17, 2019 6:11 PM

I'm fascinated with Göbekli Tepe, located in modern day Turkey, just north of the Syrian border and not too far from the Euphrates River.

It's 12,000 years old, abandoned and was intentionally, carefully buried 10,000 years ago. It is estimated that only 10% of the site has been excavated. It is quite possibly the oldest temple in the world. Today's modern wheat originated about 20 miles away from the site.

Quote:

With its mountains catching the rain and a calcareous, porous bedrock creating lots of springs, creeks, and rivers, the upper reaches of the Euphrates and Tigris was a refuge during the dry and cold Younger Dryas climatic event (10,800 – 9,500 BCE).

-----

At present Göbekli Tepe appears to raise more questions for archaeology and prehistory than it answers. It remains unknown how a population large enough to construct, augment, and maintain such a substantial complex was mobilized and compensated or fed in the conditions of pre-sedentary society.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Da...3!4d38.9214009

Just imagine the unknown settlements that were submerged when the Ataturk Dam was constructed in the 1980s.

Quote:

The early Neolithic settlement of Nevalı Çori, site of some of the world's most ancient known temples and monumental sculpture, was discovered during rescue excavations before the dam was completed. Nevalı Çori was inundated by Atatürk Dam's reservoir.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atatürk_Dam

https://www.google.com/maps/place/At...9!4d38.3122199

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ca_7500_BC.jpg

dubu Nov 17, 2019 9:37 PM

oldest circular city with a lot of water around it is the long gone atlantis. amsterdam is the only atlantis type city we have now though, over 700 years old?. now we are all about huge dense downtown smart cities. i sorta became obsessed with circular cities you probably have seen https://forum.skyscraperpage.com/sho...d.php?t=239987

LosAngelesSportsFan Nov 17, 2019 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt (Post 8751097)
I'm fascinated with Göbekli Tepe, located in modern day Turkey, just north of the Syrian border and not too far from the Euphrates River.

It's 12,000 years old, abandoned and was intentionally, carefully buried 10,000 years ago. It is estimated that only 10% of the site has been excavated. It is quite possibly the oldest temple in the world. Today's modern wheat originated about 20 miles away from the site.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Da...3!4d38.9214009

Just imagine the unknown settlements that were submerged when the Ataturk Dam was constructed in the 1980s.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atatürk_Dam

https://www.google.com/maps/place/At...9!4d38.3122199

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ca_7500_BC.jpg

Predates current Armenia by a few thousand years, but is in an area that was historically Armenia if i'm not mistaken. Most certainly nothing to do with the Turks other than its currently in an area controlled by Turkey

jbermingham123 Nov 18, 2019 6:09 AM

I will always wonder how much history was wiped out when the sea levels rose again 12K years ago. I doubt its a coincidence that history seems to start around 10K BC.. there is probably evidence of a much more gradual development of civilization, language, etc but it is all underwater just off the coast of every continent. Pretty much every community around the world has a flood story and many communities have an atlantis story. Not a coincidence

wwmiv Nov 18, 2019 6:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbermingham123 (Post 8751488)
I will always wonder how much history was wiped out when the sea levels rose again 12K years ago. I doubt its a coincidence that history seems to start around 10K BC.. there is probably evidence of a much more gradual development of civilization, language, etc but it is all underwater just off the coast of every continent. Pretty much every community around the world has a flood story and many communities have an atlantis story. Not a coincidence

http://discovermagazine.com/2019/jun...n-to-aquaterra

mousquet Nov 18, 2019 1:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt (Post 8750775)
Side note: isn't it amazing how quickly skin will turn white in a period of 10,000 years!

It's just the lack of sun. Skin is normally pretty fast at producing melanin anyway, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't protect your skin from the mighty sun. It just burns your skin when it's excessively exposed to it, which is unhealthy. That's why people in Africa carefully protect their skins, sometimes by some really cool stylish clothing, by the way.

Some people from northern Europe (including France) have bad difficulties with their skins as soon as they get in some intense sunlight. They constantly get sun-burnt instead of going darker as many of us naturally do. And bathing only makes it worse because water acts as magnifying glass, intensifying ultraviolet.
E.g. some of my cousins whose mom is from Brittany have had that annoying problem. We've never understood what it came from. Probably some particular part of their genome or something.

But again, even real dark skins get burnt by some real aggressive sunshine. Everybody must take care of their freaking skin.

eschaton Nov 18, 2019 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbermingham123 (Post 8751488)
I will always wonder how much history was wiped out when the sea levels rose again 12K years ago. I doubt its a coincidence that history seems to start around 10K BC.. there is probably evidence of a much more gradual development of civilization, language, etc but it is all underwater just off the coast of every continent. Pretty much every community around the world has a flood story and many communities have an atlantis story. Not a coincidence

One of the biggest areas of archaeological interest which is now submerged is the Persian Gulf. The Tigris-Euphrates valley originally continued traveling southeast until it reached the sea at the Straight of Hormuz. The earliest true cities could have been a submerged civilization in this area. It would also help explain some historic connections between Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley Civilization - because originally the two areas were much closer to one another.

Sun Belt Nov 18, 2019 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbermingham123 (Post 8751488)
I will always wonder how much history was wiped out when the sea levels rose again 12K years ago. I doubt its a coincidence that history seems to start around 10K BC.. there is probably evidence of a much more gradual development of civilization, language, etc but it is all underwater just off the coast of every continent. Pretty much every community around the world has a flood story and many communities have an atlantis story. Not a coincidence

Yep, I have had the same questions. It was a rapid melt and rapid warm up. We live in a time where the climate is incredibly stable, at least for the last 6,000 years or so.

Imagine what was submerged in the Adriatic and Aegian Seas in the Mediterranean. Imagine what was buried by the desertification of North Africa and the growth of the Sahara. The Sahara used to be green with rivers streams and trees-- not that long ago. Lake Chad was an inland sea.

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/d9...3c95c665a4.jpg


Quote:

Earlier than the African humid period, humid periods in Africa had influenced the evolution of modern humans; the African humid period now led to a widespread settlement of the Sahara and the Arabian Deserts by humans. These at first lived on animals and plants naturally occurring in the region; later they started domesticating animals such as cattle, goats and sheep. They have left archeological sites and artifacts such as one of the oldest ships in the world; but in particular they created rock paintings such as those in the Cave of Swimmers and in the Acacus Mountains; in fact the existence of earlier wet periods was postulated after the discovery of these rock paintings in now-inhospitable parts of the Sahara. When the African humid period ended, humans gradually abandoned the desert in favour of regions with more secure water supplies, such as the Nile Valley and Mesopotamia, where they gave rise to early complex societies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_humid_period

eschaton Nov 18, 2019 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt (Post 8750775)
First Briton from 10,000 years ago:
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018...7936566146.jpg


Side note: isn't it amazing how quickly skin will turn white in a period of 10,000 years!


To be fair, the original black skinned population of Western Europe was mostly wiped out genetically speaking - first by a population of farmers spreading from the Near East (which took on no more than 30% of their DNA from the hunter gatherers as they spread into Europe) and later by the expansion of a population from the steppe who were almost certainly speakers of Indo-European languages. In Britain in particular it's estimated that when the Indo-Europeans migrated in over 90% of the indigenous population of Britain died out within a few generations, leading to a population shift as dramatic as that involved in the settling of the Americas.


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