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It aint happenin. Sure they would move across the street if the state paid the $8 or $9 billion it would cost. All you would be doing though is swapping places with skyscrapers. Let's not forget that was the goal the last time they tried to move MSG (to Moynihan). Those air rights are still in play, and are NOT a part of the state's redevelopment plan. But mostly, the state has no interests in it for one simple reason. Moving it does NOTHING to improve conditions at Penn Station. Some people like the thought of moving the Garden because they think the fantasy of rebuilding the original Penn would be in play. It won't. Partly because 2 Penn still stands (it's getting larger, in fact). But the biggest issue regarding building the original station is - ta da! the station is still there. It never left. It never got smaller. The only thing they did was remove the building that stood over it and replaced it with another. If the original building still stood, we'd still be in the predicament that we are in today. That's because the original station wasn't built to handle what it does today. You would still need the expansion, and various improvements that will take place with the state's plan. That's why they aren't pursuing the fool's mission of replacing the Garden. It does nothing to enhance or improve Penn Station itself. Could you get a prettier building above ground to look at? Absolutely. But not for the billions and headaches it will costs. Of course, most people don't know or think about these things. So if you give them some hope, they'll dream. But the reality is that what they dream of (rebuilding the original) is neither feasible, nor an improvement for Penn Station operations |
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KILLJOY!! LOL! (: Yeah we all know that moving MSG doesn't do anything to improve Penn Station and without 2 Penn also coming down which i certainly advocated for, the dream of rebuilding the original with modern touches is an impossibility.. but hey.. what's wrong with dreamin! (: Few things that a such a move would've accomplish is.. 1- Rebuild a modern version of Penn Station above ground on the old MSG site 2- Build a state of the art new MSG right across the Avenue - i'm a huge Rangers and Knicks fan.. having gone to hundreds of games and concerts at MSG! 3- Stop in it's tracks that monstrosity of Lord Foster's.. PENN15.. what a POS! Just a dream.. but us lifelong NYer's like to dream! (: |
The video board under the new escalator entrance is finally finished and all the construction barriers taken down. Looks great. Interested to see what they display, just a big Long Island Rail Road text right now. Might be able to grab a picture on my way home.
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Penn Station redevelopment isn’t dead yet, Gov. Hochul says
https://gothamist.com/news/penn-stat...ov-hochul-says Crux is Vornado will move ahead on a far slower timeline (interest rates up, office market terrible) so revenue isn't available to pay for much of the plan. The only options I see on the table are to switch uses (huge amount of residential) or dramatically scale back state ambitions. |
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I don’t see a need to switch anything. The plan was already adjusted to allow a switch to residential on a couple of towers. But Vornado only accounts for half of the towers, and only one was planned to go forward in the near term (15 Penn). As far as we can tell, that may still happen. The hotel itself should be demolished by next year, but one comment from Vornado - who’s known for changing gears on development, shouldn’t throw anything into chaos. But the media would have it no other way. (Who wants to read that things are going according to plan?) The thing about the other half of the planned tower development is tgat they can’t issue an rfp for the sites until the federal government formally announces the south expansion. But yeah, the tower development was always looked at as taking place over the long term. |
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This article doesn’t make a lot of sense, but we’ve seen a version of this MSG plan before….
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/28/n...ochul-nyc.html Plan B for Fixing Penn Station Would Wrap Madison Square Garden in Glass The previous proposal to help pay for the renovation of the station, which could cost up to $10 billion in state funds, has been shelved. https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023...ale&width=1200 By Dana Rubinstein and Stefanos Chen March 28, 2023 Quote:
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https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023...ale&width=1200 |
See toilet comment in other thread.
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A little bit more from the Post...
https://nypost.com/2023/03/28/design...m-ex-mta-boss/ Quote:
Midblock concourse between MSG and 2 Penn... https://a4.pbase.com/o12/06/102706/1...XWMN8K.r1b.jpg Removal of Hulu Theater... https://a4.pbase.com/o12/06/102706/1...saa1qs.r2b.jpg This was Extell's proposal. https://a4.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1...LDB2c2.g28.JPG https://a4.pbase.com/o12/06/102706/1...DWuOLk0.e5.JPG https://a4.pbase.com/o12/06/102706/1...D5HTPn.e27.JPG A vision from the Municipal Art Society... https://stewartmader.com/wp-content/...44-1x18j74.png https://stewartmader.com/a-viable-pl...-penn-station/ |
Sorry if this was asked before, but is the work that LIRR doing on their waiting room and the connecting concourse going to be incorporated into the final design? Or is it all just gonna be for nothing in the end.
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In addition some of the justification for starting with the LIRR concourse was so that there would be added circulation capacity when the main portion of the station closes. Both leading proposals will remove most of the upper level, and greatly expand the lower level of the station. In the end the majority of Penn station will be on the same level of the present LIRR concourse. |
At this point, I'm satisfied with the most recent "Proposal", all parties should do whatever it takes to make it happen. Vornado can pay a special assessment in exchange for upzonings so the state can recoup any costs incurred. IMO its about damn time that state invests more into its economic hub.
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https://njbiz.com/gdc-reveals-new-hu...oject-details/
GDC reveals new Hudson Tunnel Project details Matthew Fazelpoor April 19, 2023 Quote:
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BTW, we don't talk about it much, but one of the major components of the Gateway project is the new Portal Bridge being built. They've been moving with great speed on that, and you can visually see progress as trains pass by on the old bridge.
The current bridge, which gets stuck in the "open" position, is a big contributor to delays in and out of Penn Station. It's been a longtime headache, and the sooner the new bridge is operational, the better. It will be some time though. https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2...pjpg&auto=webp https://www.northjersey.com/story/ne...ys/3226334001/ New Bridge https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/p...tions/original https://www.railwayage.com/wp-conten...1-1024x531.png |
'Bout damn time.
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https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...qei-story.html
Fix Penn and leave MSG in place: Renovate the train station and keep the arena where it is By Elizabeth Goldstein May 17, 2023 Quote:
https://www.amny.com/opinion/madison...t-where-it-is/ Op-Ed | Madison Square Garden needs to stay right where it is https://www.amny.com/wp-content/uplo...2-1200x800.jpg By Michael Wekselblatt & Thomas J. O’Donnell Quote:
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https://nypost.com/2023/05/17/msg-ne...ation-glow-up/ MSG negotiating deal to sell former Hulu Theater for $1B to make way for Penn Station overhaul By Patrick Reilly and Josh Kosman May 17, 2023 Quote:
https://nypost.com/wp-content/upload...y=75&strip=all |
Who's got the popcorn?
Bombshell Report: After More than 50 Years, Railroads Now Say MSG is “Not Compatible” Atop Penn Station A just released “Compatibility Report on MSG” by the big three railroad titans says that while loading plan arrangements were fine in a bygone era in the early 60s, that is no longer the case in 21st century NYC. MTA, Amtrak and NJ Transit in a show of unity are all calling for major changes in a dramatic new statement released June 2 about the future of Penn Station. MSG Entertainment, the owner of the Garden, blasted the new report. For half a century Madison Square Garden, the fourth arena of that name, has sat atop Penn Station like a dental cap sealing the root of an extracted tooth. Now, after all that time, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has joined with two other railroad behemoths, Amtrak and NJ Transit, saying the arena and the station are “not compatible.” “The Garden’s site plan and loading arrangements may have been compatible with Penn Station and the surrounding community in the early 1960’s,” The MTA, Amtrak and Jersey Transit said Friday in a report. “Today, however, MSG’s existing configuration and property boundaries impose severe constraints on the Station that impede the safe and efficient movement of passengers and restrict efforts to implement improvements, particularly at the street and platform levels.” The timing of this statement was dramatic. Coming essentially on the eve of the City Planning Commission hearing June 7th to consider whether the Gardens permit to operate a large arena on that site should be extended after it expires July 24th. A spokesperson for MSG Entertainment, which owns the Garden, pushed back: “We are disappointed to see this compatibility report from the MTA and the other rail agencies, considering how we have been cooperating throughout this process. This is the opinion of a few and not all stakeholders involved.” The question of the Garden’s location has become entangled with several other interlocking issues, including how to create an acceptable train station, whether to expand the station to accommodate more trains and whether to build ten new super-tall office towers around the station. If holding two thoughts at once is a challenge in public debate, integrating all of these interests has become one of New York’s most difficult and important civic Rubik’s cubes. Which is why on any given day it seems the focus is on the most immediate piece of the puzzle. Jamie Torres-Springer, who is the MTA’s President of Construction and development, told the MTA Board the other day that the MTA had been asked by the City Planning Commission for a report on whether the Garden and the train station, the busiest in North America and possibly the dankest, were compatible “So at this point, we would have to say that they are not compatible and not headed in the direction of compatibility.” On its face, this statement would appear to support the community and architectural movement to force the Garden to move so a better Penn Station can be built. But that interpretation is, to say the least, confusing, since the MTA under the direction of Governor Kathy Hochul has been vehement that Penn Station can and should be improved quickly without waiting the years it would take, to say nothing of the costs, to find a new location for the Garden and move it. The MTA holds this view so intently that it is even resisting a middle plan, proposed by an Italian developer, to leave the Garden in place but rip away the theatre and other structures around it to make way for a grand entrance on Eight Avenue. Torres- Springer, in fact, said at the MTA meeting this would be a waste of scarce capital, even if some of the capital would come from the Italian developer, ASTM. Among other things the developer would need to buy the Madison Square Garden Theatre from The Garden, at a price that Torres-Springer said was in the neighborhood of a billion dollars. On Friday, June 2, the MTA and the other railroads submitted their “compatibility report” to the city planning commission, laying out what they wanted from Madison Square Garden in exchange for the new operating permit it is requesting. Fundamentally, the railroads want MSG to pay some of the costs for renovation and to agree to what they called “property swaps” in which MSG would give the railroads some land it owns to create a new midblock entrance to the train station, build new entrances at the corners of 31st and 33rd and Eight Avenue and build a new loading area for trucks servicing MSG events to get them off the streets. Rest: https://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/b...tion-BD2566333 |
They’ve finally realized the error their ways, and have returned to the redevelopment set up that was in place when Cuomo was in charge…
https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-n...design-process Office Towers Nixed From Penn Plan, Gov Kicks Off Redesign Process Hochul says the redesign will be "commuter-first," and that she won't wait for new revenue to get the process started. https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/26...png?width=1300 By Peter Senzamici, Patch Staff Jun 26, 2023 Quote:
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