You sound like one of the NIMBYS who are opposing the project. The FEC used to run 100 trains a day a decade ago with its mostly single tracked network. They now run 25 to 30 trains a day , so the upgrades aren't for Freight...and their ROW used to be 3 and 4 tracks.

Actually, they will be delivered the first new metrorail cars sometime in 2015.

Exactly! I saw a rant from someone in Vero Beach on another site that claimed 30 to 32 high speed passenger trains a day would "destroy" the small towns north of West Palm Beach!!!

He also hinted that it was a secret government plan that will surely backfire.

the AAF is 32 trains / 16 north and 16 south
my question is how many TriRail trains will also travel
towards Pompano Beach then switch tracks?
how many trains?

More Cool Links
go to the AllAboardFlorida.com website
they have a very good media links section that has
been updating a lot of news links story's.
On sept 3 the CEO did a video interview on CNBC
Im guessing they expand to Jacksonville/Daytona in 2018

so todays palm beach post talks about
the CNBC video I wrote about last week
BUT they mention that big news announcement
is coming this week (from the AAF twitter)
my guess is the train order or
maybe a hotel for the Orlando station.

Is the trains is going to St. Augustine? I didn't even know that. Do you have a source for that? They won't go to Jacksonville or Daytona Beach.

The Palm Beach post says the station
has been re-designed.
cant find any photos thou.
not sure if this was the News that AAF tweet'd about

AAF trains to be built (assembled?) by Siemens in Sacramento
http://realtime.blog.palmbeachpost.c...lt-by-siemens/

Great news! Investing in infrastructure creates good jobs.

Two locomotives seem like a lot for only seven coaches. There are commuter trains that do push/pull with more cars. What is preventing AAF from using a cab car? Speed? Acceleration? Reliability? Legislation?
Obviously AAF and Siemens know what they're doing.
Awesome news. I love this project more and more with every announcement.

The Siemens "Charger" diesel locomotives can only reach 110 mph solo, it takes two of them to sustain 125 mph.

Having a fully FRA compliant locomotive on either end of the train makes it more likely that the FRA might approve lighter built coach cars. Although I'll admit I'm not sure these coach cars will be built lighter.

What's the deal with every passenger coach in this country being bare stainless steel? It's so effing boring.

Looks like we won't be getting anything as sharp as the European Railjets:

https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6173/...d82e45_o_d.jpg
><><

Not every passenger coach in the USA is made of bare stainless steel, just a lot of them are.

I believe it is because it's easier to clean graffiti off of a bare steel exterior.

Graffiti on urban trains is barely a problem in this country anymore, unlike Europe which never went to stainless steel. Furthermore, Regional and commuter passenger trains were never a graffiti target in this country like they are in Europe. One huge difference is the sheer security of yards and staging areas for trains in the US, especially post-911. You'd really almost need to have a death wish to "bomb" government owned urban trains, literally you might be shot as a supposed terrorist or something. It's not the old days of kids roaming around yards spraying subway trains, and if they got caught, essentially a slap on the wrist and some community service. In Europe it still occurs, especially on the continent for many reasons, the lack of a post-911 security state and cultures more tolerant of deviant art in general being two of them.


That's a little long winded way of saying I don't believe graffiti is a significant enough threat to lead AAF to choose paintless car bodies over the much more attractive painted shell. I think its a complete non-issue.

good news about the trains
do they still hold 400 people?

There's no way a 4 car train set can match the proposed capacity of a 7 car train set.
Assuming similar to Amfleet I configurations, ~70 seats per standard coach and ~60 seats per first class coach,

A (4) car trainset consisting of (1) first class and (3) standard coaches should have a capacity of ~ 270 seats.
A (7) car trainset consisting of (1) cafe/diner, (1) first class, and (5) standard coaches should have a capacity of ~410 seats.

I hope this helps!

I don't know why there's so much handwringing over this. Just like airlines, AAF will adjust the seating and train length over time to match demand and they will adjust the paint scheme to remain fashionable.

If AAF is successful then they will be profitable, which means they will have access to capital and they can make investments like this. It's not like Amtrak where the money depends on Congress' mood and may not come around for another 40 years.

Thanks for the info.

I still wonder about the economics. If 125 mph speeds are the main reason for the two locomotives (and don't get me wrong, I am all for 125 mph!), then the second locomotive is really only needed for the 40 miles where 125 mph is allowed. The rest - if I understand it all correctly - is either 79 or 110 mph. 40 miles at 125 mph can be covered in just over 19 min., while at 110 it takes just over 21 min., both not counting time to accelerate to top speed.
2 minutes doesn't really make a big difference - not enough to justify a second locomotive.
I wonder if this means they are expecting to run at 125 mph on other future alignments as well? Orlando to Tampa maybe? Are there many grade crossings between cocoa and Jacksonville?

There are several other advantages using two locomotives besides higher maximum sustained speeds.
(1) Higher reliability, in case one locomotive encounters a failure.
(2) Two cabs, one in each locomotive on opposite ends of the train means not having to build return loops or wyes to turn the train around.
Of course, having a cab in a coach would provide this (2) advantage as well, but not advantage (1).
(3) with FRA compliant locomotives on either end, the possibility FRA will allow lighter built coaches increases. (3a) Lighter coaches means lower operating costs due to lower weight. (3b) Lighter coaches means faster accelerating and decelerating, achieving faster average speeds.
(4) Two locomotives means more horsepower, allowing faster accelerating - and due to twice the counter EMF in the twice as many electric motors, faster decelerating too.
(5)Don't forget, the last 40 miles into Orlando will be single track - even a gain or loss of just two minutes (four minutes roundtrip) can affect train scheduling.

40 miles at 125mph is more like 20 minutes not 2 minutes.

Actually, 40 miles at 125 mph is 19 minutes and 12 seconds. And 40 miles at 110 mph is 21 minutes and 49 seconds. The difference between the two train speeds is 2 minutes and 37 seconds....

That's the two minutes being discussed earlier. Is basic mathematics too difficult to discuss around here?

I am no expert on trains more interested in this story
about the Miami/Ft Laud/WPH stations and development.
I don't think you need two trains because you cant turn around
that sounds stupid, pretty sure trains can go forward and reverse
I think tri-Rail has 2 train engines.
Anybody know about the new WPB station re-design ???

that 40 miles of single track, very important for the extra speed
so the next train can arrive in the other direction.....
also the single track ? if they expand to Jacksonville
will this cause a problem for more trains?
actually the Jacksonville trains maybe less then the 16/16 trains
more like 8 north to daytona 8 south to the airport

He was saying how long 40 miles approximately takes at 125mph, not the differences between 110 and 125.

BTW more info on the trainsets here (as 202 mentioned great opportunity to create American jobs!):
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101992801

Really? What Hatman wrote initially, as I quote;
"40 miles at 125 mph can be covered in just over 19 min., while at 110 it takes just over 21 min., both not counting time to accelerate to top speed.
2 minutes doesn't really make a big difference - not enough to justify a second locomotive."

I don't really care either way but I was talking about what lrt's friend said.

Wave streetcar loop proposed for Flagler Village
 

http://touch.sun-sentinel.com/#secti.../p2p-81316808/

the AAF tv commercial is great seen it tons of times very good
Now there is a new Siemens tv commercial
not about florida , but about trains
very patriotic makes you feel good about made in the USA
This AAF project is a slam dunk

if anybody wants good quality info on AAF
check out reasonrail.blogspot.com

Great link.
The horse-power per ton for two locomotives and seven coaches makes sense to me. Also, everything Electricron said before. I'm on board with this idea now.
Also, I like how everything is being designed for future 9-coach trains. And how the tickets have a boarding door for 1-minute long station dwells. The more I learn about this project the more I love it.
But there is one question I have that hasn't been answered... In building the line from Cocoa to Orlando, are they designing for an eventual second track, or do they think it will always be single-track? I don't see how there could be any higher frequency than 1 hour headways without a second track.

Glimpse of Siemens Charger and Viaggio coach model at Innotrans 2014 in Berlin:


https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2944/...29e93433_b.jpg
><><

If it takes roughly 20 minutes for a train to traverse the distance, doesn't that mean that it's more like 5 trains every two hours that can come or go on that segment?

And wouldn't they be able to do like a passing zone in the middle to boost frequencies?

It could be three trains every hour with 20 minutes elapse times over the single track.

Yes, a passing siding midway in the single track milage potentially allows doubling the number of trains per hour.

In either case, only if every train was absolutely on time. Which only happens in Japan systematically.

Yet, they only require two trains per hour, one in each direction, as stated in their EIS. For initial operations, a passing siding isn't needed on the single track milage. But that doesn't mean they will not build one - or two.

The 20 minutes we're talking about was arrived at assuming a constant speed of 125 miles per hour - so if we were to count time to accelerate up to speed and then decelerate, we may arrive at a figure closer to half an hour.
I'm not sure a passing siding would be the best solution, because it means one train has to slow down to switching speeds. I don't know what the speed limit is for high-speed switching tracks internationally, but here in the (western) USA I haven't heard of one that diverges at a speed greater than 45 miles per hour. That's about one third of the 125 mile per hour speed limit. The point being that a passing siding would make the journey even slower. That may be a price AFF is willing to take to increase capacity, but making a 3 hour trip even longer is rarely a good marketing strategy.
I hope something is done eventually to allow an increased frequency during peak hours. It's no good turning customers away at peak hours and having empty seats during non-peak hours.

Also, AWESOME picture Busy Bee. I like the look of that train. It looks like the Locomotive is as long as the passenger car? I like long locomotives (I'm a fan of the old E units of the streamliner age). It's just so much cooler when the locomotives match the cars in all dimensions, including length - it really makes the train look like a complete set rather than a hodge-podge of the cheapest available equipment.

Any recent construction pictures?

Please be patient. Give it some time. They will working on it.

It looks like the railjet in Austria.

Railjet is very cool-looking. It's got nice matching lines down the whole train, and the cars are probably the same ones AAF is getting. But I hope the ends are more streamlined than the Railjet, because the 'shovel-nose' look of the railjet consist doesn't exactly scream 'speed!!!' to me.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...NkWMm-djU3BR9g

I hope the design from that video AAF released makes it through to final production. It almost looks like the ICE 3/Velaro, but a diesel locomotive:
http://mediaassets.tcpalm.com/photo/....0_640_480.jpg
Video Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhG5ImwYBYg

Second Phase Of Miami-Orlando Rail Line Could Also Be Privately Financed

http://i.imgur.com/P3Ct8XC.jpg

From the All Aboard Florida website:

====================================
October 7, 2014
http://www.exmiami.org/index.php/sec...tely-financed/

go AAF

still voting for Charlie Christ.

Wow, I'm impressed. Who knew anyone could raise that much money for a private passenger rail project - especially in the USA? This doesn't change the project much, but it certainl does change the "narrative" - as in now this is so much less of a political issue. And who knows? Maybe some other group might be hoping to raise capital for their own passenger rail service, and this will set some sort of precident? Or at least encouragement to keep trying? (I'm thinking specifically of the LA/LV corridor.)
I guess I have to say it again: The more I learn about this project, the more I love it.

Yeah! Vote him now! Go for it!

good news about AAF they must have good people managing this stuff
ABOUT this LOAN thing
maybe just wait till early 2015 and see who wins the election
and get new loan for the expansion to Jacksonville
this loan thing is stupid the Govt spends billions on roads and highways

Massive MiamiCentral train station would be a new urban hub downtown

Read More: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...le2538964.html




http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...amiCentral.jpg




http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...Station-01.jpg

^ "Transit officials want a definitive commitment and clear designs from All Aboard for the Metrorail and Metromover connections, both elevated and at ground level, in particular along Sixth Street, which will be the link between the main station complext and the Overtown project."

This is probably one of the most important parts of the project which is having passengers disembark from a AAF train and walk across the street to connect with Metrorail & Metromover to get around Miami.
As the article said this will transform the western edge of downtown Miami along with the massive Miami World Center project immediately to the station's east.

What about Tri-Rail ??
I thought it was official that tri-rail was expanding

^Tri-Rail is wanting to expand to a second commuter line that would run on the AAF train tracks & be called Tri-Rail Coastal link which would run farther to the east and serve all of major downtown areas in W. Palm Beach, Ft. Lauderdale & Miami.
The problem is funding for this second commuter line. It would cost between $720-$800 Million to start this second line.
In addition, if Governor Rick Scott is re-elected he has told the current Tri-Rail system that he will cut off all funding after 2017 for the commuter rail line which means the possible end of Tri-Rail as we know it after 25 years of service.

More info on Coastal Link :http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...s-second-track

So it looks like they are building 4 tracks at this station when theoretically they would only need two... does this mean they are anticipating TRI-rail service in the future, or are they serious about the Jacksonville segment? I think it is interesting they appear to be building all 4 all at once, rather than doing it in phases.

How about St. Augustine, FL? They won't be in JAX. JAX is too far away from there. They want to go to St. Augustine. Can they consider it?