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Chuckaluck Jan 28, 2014 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5737840)
:previous:

Thanks for clearing things up. The whole Dahlia story seems--IMO--to be confused all the more by the individual who strangely (if not pathologically) exploits his real or convenient belief that his father murdered Elizabeth Short. How refreshing to find someone not trying to get in and cash in on the act! Welcome to the thread. More importantly--thanks for adding to the real-life dimension here on noirish.


On the other hand...there is a noir dimension to Maurice's life. The Times was full of good stories:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9...ticlescomp.jpgLos Angeles Times


http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics01/00020217.jpg http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=8273


Mr. Kosloff produced the '51 noir movie, "The Hoodlum." It features several LA exteriors that has been discussed in this thread.

Viewable here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGR3yAh3XIc


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...he_Hoodlum.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...he_Hoodlum.jpg

Martin Pal Jan 28, 2014 8:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5737840)
Thanks for clearing things up. The whole Dahlia story seems--IMO--to be confused all the more by the individual who strangely (if not pathologically) exploits his real or convenient belief that his father murdered Elizabeth Short. How refreshing to find someone not trying to get in and cash in on the act!

Since this was brought up; a question or two.

If I were to read a book or article or website about the BD case, does anyone have a recommendation on what would be the best one? I am not a student of the case nor have I ever read much about it. My information has come in bits and pieces over the years because of its notoriety. I'd be interested in something that is perhaps viewed as the most objective research on the case, if there is such a thing. It's my perception that there is a lot of stuff out there of the salacious or speculative or biased variety that muddles the issue. Was there ever a decent documentary produced about this case?

Many posts on NLA refer to other crimes of similar nature in the late '40's and one poster said something like "it seems clear there was a serial killer on the loose" at that time. I wondered if the police back then thought about this, that many of these similar crimes were the work of one person or wasn't it brought up or considered?

Thanks for any suggestions any of you might have.

ethereal_reality Jan 28, 2014 10:34 PM

I'm really impressed with the time and effort you put into your post on the Baldwin Hills Oil House Flyingwedge.
It was a great read! Kudos to you.



This is probably a stupid question, but what kind of security is set up for the area?
Is there at least a fence around the perimeter of the property?

originally posted by Flyingwedge
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/835/dkwq.jpg

I can easily imagine nefarious activities taking place under the cover of darkness.
No people, no street lights, loose gravel= body dump
__


That said,
I hadn't noticed the detached garage before.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/826/bquf.jpg
http://baldwinhillsoilhouse.com/
__


I was shocked by the rude response you got from Ms. Gosnell.
She was probably leery, perhaps thinking you were researching to have the house landmarked.

Again, great work FW.

ethereal_reality Jan 28, 2014 10:45 PM

This is the best image I've seen of the Chutes Theater at Chutes Park.

It's a detail/I can't locate the original photograph (when i find it I'll post it)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/46/2otg.jpgebay
The decorative archway over the entrance owe some gratitude to Louis Sullivan and his Transportation Building at the Chicago World's Fair.

So, I wonder what took place in this 'theater'?

ethereal_reality Jan 28, 2014 10:52 PM

-here's a better example
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/24/zom1.jpg
ebay




Transportation Building, Chicago 1893
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/31/gkdf.jpg
http://www.travel-studies.com/geogra...louis-sullivan

GaylordWilshire Jan 28, 2014 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 6426804)
Since this was brought up; a question or two.

If I were to read a book or article or website about the BD case, does anyone have a recommendation on what would be the best one? I am not a student of the case nor have I ever read much about it. My information has come in bits and pieces over the years because of its notoriety. I'd be interested in something that is perhaps viewed as the most objective research on the case, if there is such a thing. It's my perception that there is a lot of stuff out there of the salacious or speculative or biased variety that muddles the issue. Was there ever a decent documentary produced about this case?

Many posts on NLA refer to other crimes of similar nature in the late '40's and one poster said something like "it seems clear there was a serial killer on the loose" at that time. I wondered if the police back then thought about this, that many of these similar crimes were the work of one person or wasn't it brought up or considered?

Thanks for any suggestions any of you might have.


Martin: Over the years I've read just about every major book that has come out on the BD, including the Donald Wolfe and Hodel books. As for the latter, after a certain point, I felt that any truth was tainted by what I perceive to be Hodel's strange, self-serving dedication to the proposition that his father was the killer. If not pathological, it began to seem more of a perverse gimmick to sell books. I'm in Larry Harnisch's camp:

http://www.lmharnisch.com/home.html


And his Daily Mirror blog:

http://ladailymirror.com/category/black-dahlia/

Flyingwedge Jan 28, 2014 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6427018)
I'm really impressed with the time and effort you put into your post on the Baldwin Hills Oil House Flyingwedge.
It was a great read! Kudos to you.

This is probably a stupid question, but what kind of security is set up for the area?
Is there at least a fence around the perimeter of the property?

I can easily imagine nefarious activities taking place under the cover of darkness.
No people, no street lights, loose gravel= body dump

Hey thanks er, and everyone else who commented as well. I'd wondered about the house in the oil field almost my whole life, so it was a fun challenge to research it. EB, you may be on to something regarding the mansion in The Big Sleep.

Yes, there's a security fence around the oil field; you can't just walk or drive in. I suspect there is a security patrol and/or cameras, and that security has been beefed up since 9/11, like everywhere else. But before that, it was possible to drive unchallenged into the oil field at the entrance on Stocker, near Fairfax (not near the brick house), even during daylight. Or so I'm told. ;)

ethereal_reality Jan 28, 2014 11:14 PM

I found this photograph of Venice Beach while I was searching for the postcard of the Dancing Pavilion.

I know the enormous gas-meters downtown, as well as the one next to Charlie Chaplin's Studio in Hollywood,
but I don't remember a gas-meter this close to the ocean.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/839/598r.jpg
old file of mine

Any one else aware of this one? I'm sure someone is.
__

HossC Jan 29, 2014 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6427081)
I found this photograph of Venice Beach while I was searching for the postcard of the Dancing Pavilion.

I know the enormous gas-meters downtown, as well as the one next to Charlie Chaplin's Studio in Hollywood,
but I don't remember a gas-meter this close to the ocean.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/839/598r.jpg
old file of mine

Any one else aware of this one? I'm sure someone is.

I don't remember seeing that gasometer before, but it looks like it was between Main Street and Hampton Drive. The aerial shot below is from 1952; it's gone by 1972.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...eGasometer.jpg
Historic Aerials

At the middle of that lot today you'll find Google Los Angeles. The gasometer would have been just off the right of this picture.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...Binoculars.jpg
www.google.com

HossC Jan 29, 2014 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6427035)
This is the best image I've seen of the Chutes Theater at Chutes Park.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/46/2otg.jpgebay

So, I wonder what took place in this 'theater'?

I found two articles about the history of Chutes Park that both say the theater was for vaudeville shows. Both articles also contain a good amount of additional info and photos. The first even has a proposed map of the park layout.

http://www.westland.net/venicehistor...naPark-LA.html

http://samlanddisney.blogspot.ie/201...ment-park.html

ethereal_reality Jan 29, 2014 1:28 AM

:previous: -I appreciate the links HossC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 6427140)
I don't remember seeing that gasometer before, but it looks like it was between Main Street and Hampton Drive.
The aerial shot below is from 1952; it's gone by 1972.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...eGasometer.jpg
Historic Aerials

Thanks for pinpointing the location of the gas-o-meter HossC.

1925. It appears it had a 'mini-me' meter as well...to it's left (north) :)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/716/lg8m.jpg
http://hollywoodhistoricphotos.ipowe...oducts_id/3244


Here it is in 1941. (almost needs a magnifying glass)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/513/gnv6.jpg
www.westland.net
__

Earl Boebert Jan 29, 2014 1:47 AM

The Sternwood Mansion
 
FWIW, here are the geographical references in The Big Sleep. Chandler was usually pretty good with his locations, just changing names.

Address: 3765 Alta Brea Crescent W Hollywood

Description: "A winding driveway dropped down between retaining walls to the open iron gates. Beyond the fence the hill sloped for several miles. On this lover level faint and far off I could just barely see some of the old wooden derricks of the oilfield from which the Sternwoods had made their money. Most of the field was public park now, cleaned up and donated to the city by General Sternwood. But a little of it was still producing in groups of wells pumping five or six barrels a day."

Reference: Less than 10 minutes drive or half an hour of "nimble walking" to "Laverne Terrace" off Laurel Canyon Drive.

Reference: Abandoned well down the hlll, through the quiet, opulent streets ... bore east to La Brea, then south. Ten minute drive.

Again, FWIW.

Cheers,

Earl

ethereal_reality Jan 29, 2014 2:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 6427203)

The photographs on this site are amazing HossC.
I am going to post them here for the casual NLA viewers that skip the links.
__

The chronology is confusing to me. It's difficult to reconcile the single chute/theater photographs with these later images,
-added rides, a drained lagoon etc.

Here is a good view of the Chutes Theater. -notice the round windows on the side.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/838/4cym.jpg
http://samlanddisney.blogspot.ie/201...ment-park.html




repairs? -the 'electrical' fountain is in the distance.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/849/k2f0.jpg
http://samlanddisney.blogspot.ie/201...ment-park.html



-the 'electric' fountain close up/as seen in the earlier postcards. (I thought it was on the other side of the lagoon)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/13/nwta.jpg
http://samlanddisney.blogspot.ie/201...ment-park.html




-what are the buildings in the distance? -one is obviously a church...but the building to it's right?
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/196/0k4z.jpg
http://samlanddisney.blogspot.ie/201...ment-park.html



-interesting to see the vast residential area that surrounded the park.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/585/zvb8.jpg
http://samlanddisney.blogspot.ie/201...ment-park.html




I spy an Orpheum.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/203/ytxg.jpg
http://samlanddisney.blogspot.ie/201...ment-park.html





http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/30/mvvc.jpg
http://samlanddisney.blogspot.ie/201...ment-park.html




Is this really the same amusement park?
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/35/gmll.jpg
http://samlanddisney.blogspot.ie/201...ment-park.html

Amazing images.

__

CityBoyDoug Jan 29, 2014 4:38 AM

The Black Dahlia case.... finally solved?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 6426804)
Since this was brought up; a question or two.

If I were to read a book or article or website about the BD case, does anyone have a recommendation on what would be the best one? I am not a student of the case nor have I ever read much about it. My information has come in bits and pieces over the years because of its notoriety. I'd be interested in something that is perhaps viewed as the most objective research on the case, if there is such a thing. It's my perception that there is a lot of stuff out there of the salacious or speculative or biased variety that muddles the issue. Was there ever a decent documentary produced about this case?

Many posts on NLA refer to other crimes of similar nature in the late '40's and one poster said something like "it seems clear there was a serial killer on the loose" at that time. I wondered if the police back then thought about this, that many of these similar crimes were the work of one person or wasn't it brought up or considered?

Thanks for any suggestions any of you might have.

I like the Hodel angle on the Black flower murder case. The items in Dr. Hodel's life story are indeed chilling. How they relate to the Black flower lady is absolutely astounding.

It got so hot for the Dr. that he actually left the US and hid in another country. He was questioned by the LA police on more than one occasion concerning E.S.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psc9442804.jpg.

Those Who Squirm! Jan 29, 2014 5:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProphetM (Post 6426715)
Quote:

I received a call back from Liz Gosnell, who is the contact at the Baldwin Hills Oil House website. She said it would violate her family’s privacy to discuss who built the house. She also asked, "How would you like it if someone wanted to know who built your house?"
LOL, as it was not their house when it was built, that doesn't even make sense.

If I were asked that question, I'd say I would like it just fine. People who own historical homes are often quite proud to tell about their history. To be offended that someone might be interested in the history of your house prior to you is quite bizarre to me.

I wonder if it's a cultural thing. You may be lucky you get to see the house at all. In some countries people are (in my opinion) fanatically sensitive about privacy, so those countries never get covered by by Google Street View, or if they do it's only on the most minimal basis. I know of at least one country which banned GSV after only a few central districts in big cities had been photographed, (but they still get to look at our houses and our streets). It's not my place to judge, but I can't understand what's so invasive about seeing what a block of houses looks like, when I have zero idea about who lives there, and wouldn't care a whit if I did.

Bing Streetside is fairer with respect to the country I mentioned. There's no coverage at all inside the country--but they aren't allowed to use it on other countries, either. So there! That'll teach 'em.

BDiH Jan 29, 2014 5:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 6426804)

If I were to read a book or article or website about the BD case, does anyone have a recommendation on what would be the best one? I am not a student of the case nor have I ever read much about it.

Thanks for any suggestions any of you might have.

www.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/

GaylordWilshire Jan 29, 2014 1:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug (Post 6427491)
I like the Hodel angle on the Black flower murder case. The items in Dr. Hodel's life story are indeed chilling. How they relate to the Black flower lady is absolutely astounding.

It got so hot for the Dr. that he actually left the US and hid in another country. He was questioned by the LA police on more than one occasion concerning E.S.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psc9442804.jpg.


But where's the proof? Like his father, Hodel has no shame. His books are full of holes and absurdities, beginning with photographs of Short that are not her. And last year's publicity stunt featuring Buster the Wonder Dog isn't exactly encouraging as to the reputation of the man with the father animus:


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1...2520AM.bmp.jpg

http://ladailymirror.com/2013/11/14/...en-house-fail/

GaylordWilshire Jan 29, 2014 5:02 PM

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...90/13/vb6j.jpgUSCDL


Seems unlikely that we wouldn't have seen a shot of the door of the old LA High on the grounds of the 1917 school, but here it is... dates ca. 1930 by the USCDL.

CityBoyDoug Jan 29, 2014 5:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6427795)
But where's the proof? Like his father, Hodel has no shame. His books are full of holes and absurdities, beginning with photographs of Short that are not her. And last year's publicity stunt featuring Buster the Wonder Dog isn't exactly encouraging as to the reputation of the man with the father animus:


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1...2520AM.bmp.jpg

http://ladailymirror.com/2013/11/14/...en-house-fail/

I agree, the black faced one on the right is not the Black Dahlia lady.

ethereal_reality Jan 29, 2014 5:25 PM

Here's a really fun photograph. 1930s?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...90/24/rudr.jpgebay


The following are all details.



-notice the stairs leading up to...storage?....observation deck? (we've previously seen a food stand with an observation deck on NLA)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/41/ggeg.jpg

above: I wonder what kind of machine that is just to the right of the stairs? -anyone want to wager a guess?
(I didn't get a detail of it :()





-nice car
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/824/3ghx.jpg





-this car isn't as impressive. ;)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/706/ybqx.jpg



close-up of the street sign.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/849/g8ht.jpg

Pretty cool place huh.
__







side note: There is still a Triple XXX here in Lafayette IN where I live (to be precise it's across the Wabash in West Lafayette)


It started life shaped as a barrel as well. (but only a single barrel)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/842/dpxg.jpg
https://www.google.com/maps/preview/...d=0CJsBEKIqMAs


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