Detroit-Windsor | Gordie Howe International Bridge | 2,800' main span | U/C
 

Well, it looks like the Detroit River International Crossing (DRIC) has cleared its final environmental hurdle. There is still a big question of who's competing bridge proposal will get off the ground, first, the privately-funded proposal by the Detroit International Bridge Company or this publically-funded Detroit River International Crossing:

And, from the Free Press, a map showing the two competing proposal:

http://www.freep.com/uploads/images/...-to-canada.jpg

BTW, the DRIC still hasn't selected whether this will be a suspension or cable-stayed bridge. If it's suspension, the towers will reach 459 feet in height. If it's a cable-stayed, this thing will reach 835 feet in height, which'll put it signifcantly over the height of the RenCen.

Either of these will be significantly taller than the existing Ambassador Bridge (386 feet)

^LMich, what do you think of the location? Doesn't it seem kind of dumb to locate it so far from the Fisher and from 401 on the other side? Especially if you have to tear occupied houses down?

Is a secondary span next to the Ambassador even still under consideration?

836'...that's like the new Stonecutter's Bridge size in HK (maybe a little smaller)

I think they considered nearly a dozen different locations and freeway configurations and narrowed it down to Delray specifically to keep it from taking out too many businesses. Any further up river and it'd have been even more destructive, any further down, and well, your point becomes even more true (i.e. it gets too far from the freeway). Canada really lobbied hard to push this as far downriver as they could to minimize disruption to traffic and property.

Yes, the private bridge proposal by the Detroit International Bridge Company is still very much moving forward, but the state has been using everything it cans to stop it. It also happens to be the least popular of the proposals, as it would facilitate shutting down the historic Ambassador, and everyone believes that he wants to eventually demolish it, anyway, in favor of the his new bridge. BTW, that one will measure ~ 551 feet in height.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3395/...a45a9d52_o.jpg
Detroit International Bridge Company

Here's some info on the Ambassador Bridge "Enhancement" as the DIBC is calling it. And, here is the side for the Detroit River International Crossing or DRIC.

BTW, to see the plaza for this new public bridge on the American side, here's the pdf showing the configuration. As you can see, they tried to take out as few residences as possible. There is a trend, though, to try and move the population closer to the city and make Delray totally industrial.

Do contractors working on an international bridge have to go through customs every day in order to go to and leave work, (obviously not in the beginning, but at later stages when the bridge spans the river) or is there just security on either end to ensure that foreign nationals do not exit the construction site?

Oh. Wow.

Build it yesterday

For people who cross the border frequently, there is a card (I think it's called NEXUS?) that gets you through customs in a couple minutes. They'll probably have both sides blocked off and under security while it's being built to keep people from sneaking across via the bridge.

So, like when we build a bridge to Canada do we build and pay for it all or do we build it half-way and let them finish it? :rolleyes:

Or maybe do we charge a toll to only Canadians wanting to use "our" bridge (if any of them actually want to come across to our miserable, submerging semi-democracy)?

Oh, and did they get a say about how they view the impact on their environment? Or where to put the thing?

Both sides build and maintain such bridges with the exception of the Ambassador bridge which is owned by a guy that I don't know if I should like or hate.

My grandmother hates him, but he seems kinda cool even though he's sorta shady.

The bridge in Fort Frances/International Falls is owned by the mill. The big, smelly mill that is the first thing you see in the US when you cross the bridge to International Falls.

When you enter Fort Frances, the mill is on the right. :)

Really, what was all of that about?

Alex, Matty is evil. He's been squatting on the MCS and if he get his new bridge, he'll most certainly tear down the Ambassador.

A lot of questions that come to mind when considering a bridge connecting 2 countries and literally crossing an international border.

Do you know the answers to any of them?

How's it all get done?

Oh, I honestly thought you were being facetious. It's not your normal typing style.

Anyway,

- Both sides put up funding money for the construction of the bridge. Same goes for the operation and maintenance, each side managed by its own special public coproration or both/either agree to let a private company manage both/either side (see Detroit-Windsor Tunnel).

- Every vehicle is charged a toll that goes toward the operation and maintenance of the bridge.

- This should answer your question about the environmental impact. In fact, that entire website should answer question about all of the politicis and policy that go behind international bridge building. It's incredibly complicated, and it's been working its way through planning since at least 2002.

So, from my understanding, everything's been tied up as far as environmental impact and location on the American side, and the Canadian side of things is soon to finish up. After that, they still have yet to pick the type of bridge (suspension or cable-stayed). When having to deal with state and national DOT's as well as the DofHS and local municipalities, you can see how this would get complicated.

We're still shooting for a start date for all of the traffic reconfiguration in 2010, and a completion for the entire project sometime in 2013. The private bridge, of course, would be built much faster if it's not further blocked.

Detroit River International Crossing Environmental Impact Statement Summary

Ambassador Bridge Enhancement Environmental Impact Assessment

(renderings from environmental impact statement pdf's)

DRIC Bridge

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3299/...fab61efc_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3452/...642e96db_o.jpg

Ambassador Bridge Enhancement

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3391/...f59bee4d_o.jpg

Seeing Canada to the south is always confusing for a second

An the Ambassador Bridge Enhancement (private bridge) takes another step forward, as well:

A new article and comparison that does a pretty good job of explaining the two different projects moving forward:

And, the article:

to the politicians saying this isn't the time, wasn't obama proposing investing in infastructure to stimulate economy?

Tearing down the Ambassador would be like tearing down the Ben Franklin Bridge here in Philly or the Williamsburg in NYC! We're not talking about an overly famous span, but one that's been a local landmark for generations.

I must say, the publicly funded proposal is most handsome.

Why would that matter to most Republicans (the ones leading the charge to stop the public proposal), who don't believe in public investment as a way to stimulate the economy in the first place?

Hey everyone, take it from someone who lives in windsor, We dont want a twin span, we want a whole new span downriver. see the way things are layed our right now, a twin span would still force all the traffic right through neighborhoods, a new downriver span would put the traffic right on a highway.

An article published, today, by the Free Press on this issue. It's rather misleading in its title, making it sound as if most, or even many, Windsorites want a twinned Ambassador, which simply isn't the case. The guy that they interview in the story sounds like quite a character.

Anyway, it came with a cool map that should help those who aren't familiar with the area.

http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...xH=650&title=0
MANDI WRIGHT/DFP

A coalition of Windsor businesspeople hopes to convince Canadian leaders to end arguments over rival proposals for new bridges to be built between their city and Detroit. Windsor's historic Sandwich district, above, could be affected in one plan.

A plea from Windsor: Get bridge deal done

http://www.freep.com/uploads/images/...indsor_map.jpg

That article is poorly written...the headline makes it seem like Windsor is in favour of a twinned Ambassador (despite the fact they only interviewed three people - and two of them are known around town for being blowhards that love attention). I'd say over 90% of Windsorites want the new bridge downriver which is precisely why the mayor and city council are fiercely against a twinned Ambassador.

How can the douche that's proposing a second span next to the Ambassador Bridge not have the capability to find the money to renovate Michigan Central Terminal?

I don't think it should be built if it facilitates the demolition of the Ambassador. That would mean Detroit and the nation losing another historic structure for no reason. Well, i guess in the name of greed would be the reason.

Why would they twin the Ambassador? the customs infrastructure is just not there. Build downriver and you can connect to 401 and all that truck traffic won't go through the heart of Windsor. Isn't the downriver option the no-brainer?

From the MTO's Southern Highways Program, 2008-2012:

The Ontario Ministry of Transportation, in partnership with Transport Canada, the U.S Federal Highway Administration and the Michigan Department of Transportation, is leading the Canadian portion of the Detroit River International Crossing study, to seek a long-term solution to border transportation issues in the Windsor area. The study is considering the entire border transportation system — river crossing, inspection plazas and access roads — to achieve an end-to-end solution that will best meet current and future mobility needs, while minimizing impacts on the surrounding communities and environment. The study team announced the technically and environmentally preferred alternatives for the access road, plaza and crossing in Spring 2008 and will submit environmental assessment documents for approval later this year. The recommended solution includes the Windsor-Essex Parkway, which follows the existing Highway 3 corridor and then is located adjacent to the E.C. Row Expressway, to a new plaza and crossing in the industrial area of west Windsor. Target for completion of the entire system is 2013.

Ontario highway programs website

Actually, Matty has already expanded the customs infrastructure on both sides of the river to handle the other bridge. He'll swear up and down all day long that he did it to help the existing bridge, but he's already built the pier for the twin. It very recently got the attention of the Coast Guard who are very close to filing suit to stop him from making the moves he's making.

As for the no-brainer, it depends on what you're ideology is. Logistically, yeah, it makes more sense to take this down to a less populated part of both cities. It makes even more sense when one considers that the main reason for even considering another crossing is to remove truck traffic from the residential neighborhoods. The Downriver bridge (DRIC) will also be publically developed and owned.

If one is simply or mostly concerned about cost, then the private (DIBC) plan is better.

You won't have to worry about that. On the surface, the public proposal seems perfect for Detroit with their liberal, Democrat leaders in the city and at the state level with the governor, and Windsor with their liberal, New Democrat leaders in the city and at the provincial level with their premier(who while a liberal, will play nice with the NDP).

At the federal level, the money will come from both sides regardless of how liberal the president is or how conservative the prime minister is.

Bottom line: this bridge is being built, but will there be 2?

What "this bridge" are you talking about? DRIC or DBIC?

DRIC. Look for DBIC to be held up by Environment Canada, Transport Canada, Ontario MTO, Windsor-Essex County, and the Province of Ontario(by way of the Premier and MPPs in Queen's Park).

That guy that owns the Ambassador Bridge is gonna have to show that he has a plan to help with the Huron Church Road traffic if he wants to twin/replace the existing bridge.

should just build another tunnel

OK, yes, definitely.

There was talk earlier in the decard about converting the existing railway tunnel into a truck tunnel, but it never panned out. It was labeled the "Jobs Tunnel", and would have relieved the Ambassador Bridge of trucks leaving automobiles for the existing Detroit-Windsor Tunnel and Ambassador Bridge, which can be backed up for miles into the neighborhoods on both sides of the bridge, idling.

Ha, look at all the greenery in that video alongside the proposed bridge on the Canadian side - what a crock. Moroun is in the process of ruining the adjacent neighbourhood on the Windsor side by buying all the homes, letting them rot, and then boarding them up. He's planning a huge truck inspection facility that will destroy Windsor's historic Sandwich neighbourhood (the oldest European settlement in Ontario). He's the ultimate slumlord, doesn't care about anyone but himself, and needs to go away.

And I bet he's not gonna do a damn thing to help Huron Church Road from the 401 to the Bridge, is he?

Unless "Plan B" is a complete overhaul of the E.C. Row with wider exit ramps and a safer design, then this plan needs to be DOA for DBIC. Windsor-Essex County and the Ontario NDPs, led by Howard Hampton himself, need to be loud in their opposition to this guy.

Andrea Horwath (or however the name is spelled) is the leader of the NDP now. Hopefully the PCs will oppose it too. They've been opposing some unusual things (for them) lately.

Yeah, and it would be impossible to do much with Huron Church Rd since it's so built up.
Look at all his crappy properties on the Detroit side, and now he's pulling the same stunts here. The entire stretch of homes and apartments on Indian Road are now all boarded up - it's unbelivable especially considering that neighbourhood is bustling with university students. The only thing preventing demolition is a hastily put together city bylaw which was enacted only to stop Moroun's bridge. He's over 80 so I guess he'll die soon and maybe Windsor's stall tactics will hold until that happens.

John Baird (federal transport minister) was in Windsor today and said the feds fully support a downriver bridge:


The Windsor Star
May 6, 2009
By Dave Battagello

Federal transportation minister John Baird said Wednesday his government is committed to building a downriver bridge in Windsor and dismissed the Ambassador Bridge’s twin span proposal.

“This bridge will be built,” said Baird in a keynote address at the International Multimodal Conference at Caesars Windsor.

Baird said the federal government is “commited to move full speed ahead on getting a new Detroit-Windsor bridge built and will do everything we can to move forward quickly.”

The Detroit River International Crossing (DRIC) team includes the federal government in a binational partnership that has proposed a bridge in the industrial Brighton Beach area linking with Detroit near Zug Island.

With Windsor suffering the nation’s highest unemployment, Baird said the regional and national economy cannot afford further delays on the DRIC project. Canada-U.S. trade has tripled in the last two decades, he said.

“These numbers are only going to grow,” he said. “A new bridge means a lot of jobs, hope and opportunity to jumpstart the Windsor and Essex County economy. We are committed to it. We’ve got the money, the plan and in short order the approvals we need.”

Asked about the Ambassador Bridge’s twin span proposal, Baird responded: “I don’t think it works for the community’s best interests or environmentally.”

He said a downriver bridge plaza in Brighton Beach will have more room to accommodate customs operations and better facilitate trade — as opposed to the Ambassador Bridge’s tight confines in west Windsor near the university and Sandwich community.

“We’ve got to reduce (truck) congestion in Windsor and Huron Church Road and do things better,” Baird said.

“There is really only one project that can do all that and it’s the DRIC process.”

He said that he has spoken with U.S. federal and state authorities and believes after years of debate the time is right for full support of DRIC.

“We just need to get it over the finish line and we are all committed to work together to do that,” Baird said.

Bridge company president Dan Stamper said despite Baird’s statements the Ambassador Bridge continues with its twin span construction plans.

He described the DRIC process as faulty.

“I think they have got some real problems how this process has gone that have been unfair to Detroit and U.S. residents,” Stamper said.

Stamper said that the company’s proposal was unfairly ruled out by DRIC in 2005 on the basis of inadequate feeder roads in Windsor.

That problem will be “80 per cent resolved” with DRIC’s parkway plan for a new highway in South Windsor that can bring international trucks two kilometres from his bridge’s entrance.

“Their decision was based on erroneous suggestions,” Stamper said. “About nine of the 11 kilometres from Highway 401 to the bridge are going to be fixed.

“I try to think the best of people, but when they have to start putting their John Henrys on this, I think they are going to have problems.”

While he would not say if bridge owner Matty Moroun is set to launch court action against DRIC, the bridge company is not taking any of its legal options from the table, Stamper said.

The city of Windsor is expected within a couple of weeks to complete a land deal with Transport Canada that would give the feds more than 100 acres in Brighton Beach and much of the land it requires for the bridge and crossing.

© Copyright (c) The Windsor Star

As long as the Canadian stands firm, perhaps those on both sides can outlast Matty. Unfortunately, Detroit elected a new businessman mayor, yesterday, who's made it quite clear he has no problem with Moroun's plan. Fortunately, of all the partners involved, Matty's only got Detroit's mayors office. The state/provincial, federal/national, and local governments on both sides oppose DBIC.

It's bizarre that such an important (existing) bridge is privately owned.

Especially when it's by a slumlord.

That's the risk.

It's a vital international and regional connection. And it's controlled by someone who cares about profit far more than about the region. I'm flabbergasted that this was allowed to happen.

You do realize that the Ambassador was privately financed and developed when it was built way back in the 20's, right? It's not as if it recently fell into private hands.

The fight for this current private bridge expansion is stacking up eeriely to the fight waged back then. The difference, this time, is that I think the public is going to win. In the last go-around, the bridge financier and developer had lined up all of the local, state/provincial, and national governments save for the mayor of Detroit, who faught in tooth-and-nail, and lost. This go-around, the only support he may be able to garner is that of the Detroit mayor. lol

BTW, just so it's made clear, the Detroit-Windsor tunnel is publically owned and is car-only. The Ambassador, while anyone can cross it, makes most of its money off of international truck traffic.

Does the guy who owns the Ambassador Bridge also own the land (for the bridge expansion) on the Canadian side?

^ Yes, that's the problem. He has quietly been buying up the adjacent homes west of the bridge over the last decade. The houses have fallen into disrepair and are now empty but can't be demolished due to the city bylaw thus causing a huge feud between Moroun and the city.
All the land east of the bridge is owned by the University of Windsor.

The Detroit-Windsor Tunnel technically allows trucks and I've seen a rare few in it but it's definitely a tight squeeze for them. There's also the tunnel bus that goes back and forth.

I think trucks are not allowed in the tunnel for fear of a terrorist attack.:rolleyes:

I'm glad something is stopping a twin to the Ambassador bridge form being built. Windsor really needs a freeway leading to the Detroit River.

I didn't know that. But my point is exactly the same: crucial bridge owned by a guy...who can have many motives other than public good.

You're right; I had a brain-fart. Though, trucks definitely prefer the bridge. It's crazy that they allow just about everything expect motorcycles.

And, what's this about Windsor bylaws that don't allow the demolition of the homes? I'd never heard of that.

^ That's the only reason those homes are still standing. Windsor is preventing any demolition in the entire Sandwich neighbourhood claiming that it's a historic area that should be preserved. The homes adjacent to the bridge have no historic value at all but since they fall in the boundaries of Sandwich, they can't be demolished.

Everyone knows the bylaw was only made to prevent the twinned bridge - it's just a game the city is playing but it has the support of most city residents.

It has caused problems though...some people in the neighbourhood have applied to demolish their old garages but they can't even do that because of the bylaw.

I don't even know what to say. I'm actually more insulted by Matty than I've ever been, and that's a hard thing to do. The guy is utterly ammoral and shameless:

My god, what a shameless tool this man is.