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GaylordWilshire Dec 24, 2011 8:21 PM

A Very Merry Noir Christmas!
 
http://www.universalworldchurch.org/...ages/fire2.gif

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-g...5%252520PM.jpg

I have rushed to get Christmas Eve chores done today--I've been crazed to steal a little more time to investigate the Jaggers. Alas, no noir scandal popped up immediately, no Aimee-like staged drownings. But there were multiple marriages, fatherhood at 17, relentless dunning of poor parishoners, flying saucers, and more madcap theatrics than Sister Aimee ever dreamed up. More flames like the one above here: http://www.universalworldchurch.org/...inkillers.html. And in the priceless words of Frank Zappa, of which the church itself seems bizarrely, inordinately proud: http://www.universalworldchurch.org/...l_World_Church. (Courtesy of the the church's own website.)

Sadly, The Reverend Dr. Orval Lee "O. L." Jaggers and Dr. Velma "Miss Velma" Mary Lee Jaggers and all their impressive degrees have gone to heaven or to nirvana or to whichever brand of paradise they subscribed to, presumably in the lie-flat, first-class cabin of a saucer... or, better yet, their own private saucer. (Do I love this story, or what?)

http://www.universalworldchurch.org/...al_Lee_Jaggers

http://www.universalworldchurch.org/..._Velma_Jaggers

3940dxer Dec 25, 2011 1:47 AM

Wow G_W, the Jaggers have some delightfully bizarre history! I can't make heads or tails of that bizarre web site. Do they still exist on some level and actually run this as their official site, or do you think it's more of a tongue in cheek tribute, in the wacky spirit of the original church? I'm not, sure though I'd guess the latter.

It seems there were a number of kooky, eccentric churches that were based in L.A. I've run across a few others and will try to post something one of these days. But I'd never heard of the Jaggers before and this a great one. Thanks for posting this!

MovingAloha Dec 25, 2011 3:19 AM

Merry christmas and happy new year!
 
I have been lurking on this site for several days! My family is getting upset because dinner is usually late and conversations are stilted and halting between my exclamations while looking at all the pictures.
I'm a native Angeleno and plan on moving back to California next year. I did not know some of the history that you all have been posting. I'm still going through (currently up to June 2010).
I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate this site and Thank you to all for educating all of us on my hometown!:tup:

Happy Holidays!!

FredH Dec 25, 2011 4:21 AM

Telephone Office 1899
 
This was Los Angeles' first telephone pay station, at 228 So. Spring St., in 1899. The first telephone line between San Francisco and Los Angeles had just been opened, and long distance calls to the Bay City were being stimulated. The young man, Roy E. Jillson, was messenger boy then and was still an employee of the telephone company in 1934.


http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6017/00056910.jpg
LAPL

Question: How many things are actually cheaper now than they were in 1899?

The wife calls Taiwan now for about a penny and a half per minute.

sopas ej Dec 25, 2011 4:49 AM

:previous:
Some time I ago, I read that long-distance phone calls used to be very expensive, which is why as recently as the 1950s and 1960s, it was still more common to send telegrams to communicate with family members cross country.

Even when I was a child in the 1970s, "long-distance" calls seemed to still be a big deal, and of course "overseas" calls were an even bigger deal (relatives from the Philippines would sometimes call us on special days like holidays or birthdays, and I remember the quality was really bad, there was a horrible echo, and my mom would say "hang up and we'll call you back" and then the echo would disappear when we called them back).

BTW Merry X-mas to everyone! :)

FredH Dec 25, 2011 4:53 AM

Merry Christmas to all
 
A card from 1908:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg69/...jpg&res=medium
Personal Collection

Fab Fifties Fan Dec 25, 2011 8:25 AM

Merry Christmas to all and to all a goodnight!!!

Hollywood 1950
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1...odxmas1950.jpg
Time Life Images

~Jon Paul

JoeW Dec 25, 2011 4:46 PM

Just goes to show you
 
Talk is cheap today, but not then at least not when you were on the telephone.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6017/00056910.jpg
LAPL

Question: How many things are actually cheaper now than they were in 1899?

The wife calls Taiwan now for about a penny and a half per minute.[/QUOTE]

Cam330 Dec 25, 2011 8:47 PM

Using an inflation index, that 50 cent a minute call would cost $12.93 in 2010. But just think of it. This was modern technology for people back then. To be able to even make the call was probably pretty impressive.

GaylordWilshire Dec 26, 2011 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3940dxer (Post 5527924)
Wow G_W, the Jaggers have some delightfully bizarre history! I can't make heads or tails of that bizarre web site. Do they still exist on some level and actually run this as their official site, or do you think it's more of a tongue in cheek tribute, in the wacky spirit of the original church? I'm not, sure though I'd guess the latter.

It seems there were a number of kooky, eccentric churches that were based in L.A. I've run across a few others and will try to post something one of these days. But I'd never heard of the Jaggers before and this a great one. Thanks for posting this!

3940: For the record, it was actually the great ethereal_reality, with his unerring sense of Los Angeles noir in all its permuatations, who uncovered the madcap Jaggerses. Orval and Velma both died in Glendale--he on Jan 10, 2004, she on August 21 of the same year, and both are in Forest Lawn... so I don't think they're in charge of the website, although, with their saucers and all, maybe they are. That Universal World Church website might indeed be a tongue-in-cheek tribute to its own craziness, which self-mockery, especially if unknowing, would only add to the story. Poking around for the scandal that invariably attends such religious hucksters, all I could find was a legal summary of a lawsuit for fraud against O.L. Jaggers in 1958, apparently won after crazy testimony from the Reverend. And then there was this, which may be all you need to know: ".... There were other leaders like O.L. Jaggers who... laid hands upon and pronounced over Jim Jones a very special prophetic ministry." And other snippets in bios of Jones such as "[He] ... traveled to Los Angeles at the behest of O.L. Jaggers to participate in a healing convention." (Jim Jones, the great healer.)

This being a site dealing with architecture as well as noir, I wish I could find a vintage shot of Calvary Temple at 123 N. Lake. I don't know if its original incarnation was as a more mainstream church, but it does seem to have been a major venue for a long line of faith healers.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-X...eachersREV.jpgLA Times12-23-1950 & 2-3-1951

3940dxer Dec 26, 2011 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 4328458)
ahhhh....yes, the HOLLYWOOD sign...It originally spelled out HOLLYWOODLAND for a real estate
venture around 1923.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/885...oodlandb3a.jpg

The men doing NONE of the work, are foolishly waving their hats.

Our fearless leader e_r originally posted this photo (along with several other shots of the Sign) way back on page 4, in this threads infancy: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show....php?p=4336855

I was really fascinated by the group of photos and as one who loves to hike in the Hollywood hills, kept wondering when and where this particular image was taken. Recently I did a couple of little photo safaris to the area and though my mission was not 100% successful, I can offer a few photos and insights concerning this spot, which is near Mulholland Highway and Ledgewood Drive.

After walking and studying the area around these streets I think the crew in ethereal's photo were not building the road to the sign, or any road in that scene. The sign is finished, and the road leading to it would have been the first construction phase of the project, so it has probably been in place for at least a year or two. My hunch is that our crew was actually working on Mulholland Highway (behind the camera) or perhaps was doing maintenance on the road to the sign.

So, what is this road? After stomping around the area, my conclusion is that it no longer exists, and was just an access road, built before the sign went up. My best guess is that this spot is now occupied by the homes at 6105 and 6107 Mulholland Highway. Here's a photo taken from a hill behind those homes. I think the relatively clear section that winds around to the right was a part of the old access road.

http://wwww.dkse.net/david/HlwdSign/100_8962.JPG
My photo

I think the road may have intersected with Mulholland Highway at bit further west at the driveway that now leads to 6145. It looks suitably old, and would have been the least steep approach to the little ridge in my first photo, with one or two little switchbacks in between.


http://wwww.dkse.net/david/HlwdSign/100_8968.JPG
My photo

(In the early 30's broadcaster Don Lee bought the land on the plateau above the sign in conjunction with his new experimental TV station and the longer, more gradual Mt. Lee Road was built to the summit. With the new road in place, the steeper old road would no longer be needed for access to the sign.)

Now, here's another old photo that caught my attention, though I don't know whether it has been posted on this thread before. This is the short divided section of Mulholland Highway, a few blocks west of Ledgewood. I have driven this section many times over the years and always found it intriguing and very charming. I believe that's our Hollywoodland Sign access road near the top left corner of the frame. That same hillside on the left, now the site of the homes at 6145 through 6105, also has a large green water tank, that I think can be seen at the upper left:

http://wwww.dkse.net/david/HlwdSign/...hwy-1925.2.jpg
http://underthehollywoodsign.wordpre...lland-highway/

Here's shot I took, from a similar vantage point:

http://wwww.dkse.net/david/HlwdSign/100_8972.JPG
My photo

The large white home in the older photo is at 6182 Mulholland Highway and was a model home / sales office for the then new Hollywoodland Estates. This handsome structure can seen on many old photos of the Hollywood hills. It's still there but today is more hidden by trees and other homes on the block. It is not the white home in the background of the photo above, but here's a view of it from down on Durand Drive. The identifying feature is the tall rectangular chimney along the west wall.

http://wwww.dkse.net/david/HlwdSign/100_8974.JPG
My photo

This is a great old section of Hollywood and I never tire of seeing it. The neighborhood has loads of character and many fine older homes, with few of the hideous "wedding cake palaces" that are common in other hilltop sections of L.A. Lake Hollywood is nearby and just down the street at 6342 M.H. is Castillo del Lago apparently built by Bugsy Siegel, and later owned by Madonna.

More later, maybe...

IAlsoRememberLA Dec 26, 2011 11:17 PM

Wow.

This is my FIRST post to this fabulous group of similar thinkers.

I absolutely miss Los Angeles after having left in 1978. And I miss all the good memories that really were merely daily life but seem so great compared to today.

I've searched high and low on the internet for old photos just to ponder for a moment how things once were in this world. But your photos are gold.

And, now I have other people to talk to about them! Nobody in my life today cares about what once was in my years past. You people all think like I do !

Somewhere in here, I'll bet there are even photos of the Westlake School For Girls where my mother worked. Can't wait to see a few of those since I've none of my own and only found a couple online.

rbpjr Dec 26, 2011 11:36 PM

Durand Drive...
 
You mentioned Durand Drive as being close to the original Hollywoodland home on Mulholland Highway...my father's uncle, Tom Powers, who was a stage actor in New York and eventually appeared in many movies...lived at 3154 Durand Drive from 1948 to 1954...I visited the home a few times and remember him driving us up and down those winding roads in his yellow Packard convertible, with a rumble seat...where my brother and I were seated. I am hoping that someone, at this site, would be able to photograph the home as it appears today. Seems there weren't too many homes on that meandering road in those days...

3940dxer Dec 26, 2011 11:56 PM

rbpjr, I'll be glad to photograph that house next time I'm in the area, but you can probably find a nice image of it on Google street view, too.

ethereal_reality Dec 27, 2011 12:28 AM

rbpjr-

Here is a google street view of the garage where your Great Uncle parked his yellow Packard convertible.


http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/9...uranddrive.jpg
google street view


The home is rather hard to see. (perhaps you already know this, but I wasn't sure if you had already used google street views)

I'm curious...was the home quite a distance from the garage? Did it have a fireplace?

ethereal_reality Dec 27, 2011 12:47 AM

After looking at entrances along Durand Drive again, I believe your Great Uncle's house is the one on the right with the long pathway.


http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/464...rantaerial.jpg
google street view



If this is correct, it's virtually impossible to see unless you go to Rodgerton Drive and look up.


http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1305/3154durand1.jpg
google street view



Here is a closer view.
You can see the fireplace chimney at right. I wasn't sure what to call the tall-peaked area... it's almost a turret but not quite.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6...vefrombelo.jpg
google street view


Do you think this the house rbpjr?
If not, I'm sorry....but it certainly was fun for me to go looking for it. :)
____

That said, I'm sure 3940dxer could get a much better photo for you rbpjr. He has posted some excellent photos in this thread.

ethereal_reality Dec 27, 2011 1:02 AM

Welcome to the thread MovingAloha & IAlsoRememberLA! It's so great that you found the thread.

____

I loved your enthusiastic posts on Miss Velma and her other half Gaylord_Wilshire.
It's really hard to believe that these two oddballs flew under our radar all this time.
It makes me wonder was else is out there under the palms waiting to be rediscovered.

I hope everyone had a great holiday with family and friends (or alone if need be).

____

rbpjr Dec 27, 2011 2:19 AM

The home is rather hard to see. (perhaps you already know this, but I wasn't sure if you had already used google street views)

I'm curious...was the home quite a distance from the garage? Did it have a fireplace?

I remember we parked on the street...there was a gate by the garage and a long path which took us to the lower part of the house...we went in a door on the west-side...not the "front-door"...my great uncle had painted ivy or some kind of vines on the stucco around the door...I can't remember a fireplace as we spent most of our time in his studio (he painted and was a writer)...I remember the views west were sensational! Oh, speaking of "Noir"...he played Barbara Stanwyk's husband in "Double Indemnity"...(the stage was his first love, but he said he acted in films "to help pay the bills")...

ethereal_reality Dec 27, 2011 2:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5527390)
I said WOW when I came across this illustration for the proposed Universal World Church in Los Angeles.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3...ersalworld.jpg
found and lost/the jaggers are working their hocus-pocus.

I've seen this structure before on a god awful postcard. Thinking it was pure fiction I filed it away.

I can't wait to dig it up and see if it's the same design. Off I go!



I FINALLY found that postcard I mentioned in the above post.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5...whatisthis.jpg
ebay, several years ago

The lack of taste is astounding.
It seems odd that there isn't an address on the postcard. I wonder if they owned any land outright for this monstrosity for 10,000 people?
Perhaps the parcel of land on Lake Street was large enough....but I doubt it.

I just noticed the flag on the right isn't the Star and Stripes.

GaylordWilshire Dec 27, 2011 2:38 AM

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w...2520PM.bmp.jpghttp://lapl.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAlsoRememberLA (Post 5528808)
Somewhere in here, I'll bet there are even photos of the Westlake School For Girls where my mother worked. Can't wait to see a few of those since I've none of my own and only found a couple online.

Welcome, Ialso.... The ad above dates from 1915, when Westlake was on Alvarado across from the park for which it and the area was named (now, of course, it's MacArthur Park). Two years later the school moved to 333 S. Westmoreland Ave.; the house still at that address may have been part of that campus. About ten years after that, the school moved to 700 N. Faring Rd. in Holmby Hills, which is now the campus for grades 7-9 of Harvard-Westlake. The buildings there were designed by Arthur Kelly:

http://www.paulrwilliamsproject.org/...s/366562pv.jpgPaul Williams Project


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