thanks for these tips dac150. i'll visit nyc this october...will they still work in there until then?

You know I don't know for sure. What you can do is visit their Web-site and get a sense of when they'll finish up. That or there's a thread in the New York forum regarding the renovation.

I say go for it though. As long as you have time to spare the view is very worth it.:yes:

So when's the whole renovation going to be finished?


Are they doing anything to the facade, anyway? It always seemed pretty ugly up close to me, since it's concrete or something. They could paint it like limestone, sandstone or just white. It wouldn't change the character of the building but improve its appearance.

The facade of Chrysler Building (e.g.) looks way classier.

The Empire State Building is clad in limestone.

Well, then it should like it is. Either it got pretty dirty or a bad painting some decades ago, since it looks like filthy concrete now.
They should clean it, thoroughly.

Actually, it doesn't look filthy. I always take photos of the ESB, and never once have I thought, "how filthy"....

Fine. It still doesn't look like proper limestone. ;) This facade (Cathedral of Learning, Oakland) does. They should clean Big Apples' main landmark.


Anyway, when is the ESB renovation goin to be finished?

Limestone is limestone. I really don't see where you're coming from, and I wouldn't look at the ESB and have the word 'filthy' cross my mind. Keep in mind how old the building is and how materials age over time. That doesn't brand them as filthy, but aged. Regardless the ESB, while not maybe as elegant as Chrysler, sports a very iconic and classy facade.

I'm not saying this is a shot, but I think you're a tad off base in dividing something that is aged from something that is filthy.

And BTW, if you have ever seen a close-up shot of Chrysler's crown you'll see where I'm coming from. Chrysler has it's share of shown age too, you just need to look a little harder. As far as the renovation time-table, I'm not quite sure. I would guess a year, perhaps even more.

I'm pretty much into architecture (esp. Art Decó and historism) and I know it's aged, ESB has seen 3 generations and will endure for another 3, even more.

But it didn't age pretty well. The limestone turned out concrete-like. I dunno why, it's not that usual. Earlier buildings aged better.
"Filthy" probably sounds a bit exaggerated, but I just wanted to accent my view.

It definetly needs to be cleaned. So I'm going to ask one more time, it's fun ;) - When is the ESB renovation goin to be finished?
And are they going to renovate the facade as well?

Well I'm pretty much into common sense, and to say the ESB has not aged well strikes me as rather puzzled and in a sense, taken back. To say the limestone has turned into a 'concrete' state makes no sense to me. The materials have not been subjected to weather conditions that would prompt the limestone to deteriorate.

Perhaps, if you haven’t already, you should make a trip to Manhattan and see the building first hand. While it’s been said reality differs from a photo, in the regard of the ESB, I can tell you first hand what you see is what you get, and in no sense would I say the façade has a ‘concrete’ look to it.

While you may have your own opinion, the architectural world would indeed disagree with it from a large stance. The Empire State Building can be considered the American staple of Art-Deco architecture.

I must say never in my life have I come across someone who thinks the ESB has not aged well. While you say the so called condition of the ESB in regards to age is ‘unusual’ that is also what I would consider your viewpoint; unusual.

Just simply throwing my two cents in.

You still didn't respond to my questions. ;)

Whatever. I don't understand why you get that excited 'bout my notion.
I just said I don't like the look of the facade these days. And yeah I've been to Manhattan (in 2005), even made the way up the ESB (spectacular views indeed, but freaking long queues).

Of course it's a stunning tower, but it doesn't mark the (aesthetical) peak of Art Decó - Chrysler Building takes the cake here (that was renovated some years ago, anyway). But that's nothing I'd like to discuss.

Well, maybe it's just bad limestone they chose - most other facades of that material look completely different, almost like sandstone.

The ESB is quite an exception and perhaps always had a facade like that, I dunno.

Pretty exhausting, but let me show what I mean. 2 shots I took of ESB:

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/2...tebuildyq5.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3...tebuildwm5.jpg


Comparison: That's a part of a concrete facade. There may be better examples, but that one's doing it for now.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...pektivisch.jpg


You don't have to understand that or agree with it. I guess you just don't want to.
But I'll still say: The ESB needs an exterior renovation. Dot.

And don't tell me you've been discussing the facade of ESB many times, that's ridiculous. Whatever, it just might be a matter of taste. I don't love this tower, since I'm more into older, yet classier designs (Woolworth, General Electric, Exchange Place 20, American Radiator, Flatiron, Municipal, Liberty Str 55 - the list goes on and on).

I studied civil engineering anyway, so don't tell me something 'bout material science. Don't want to brag but you intentionally seem to sound provoking.

Don't want to offend you, by the by. Let's leave an own opinion for everyone eh ;)

I did indeed respond to your question in one of my previous posts if you were paying attention. That answer I gave you is that I am not sure simply because they’ve not publicly distributed an official timetable for the renovation. However If I were to guess I would say it would take at least a year, but I’d expect it to take more. It is of course a big job for a big building.

Now after looking at the photos you posted I can see where you’re coming from, however the perception of the limestone color you are seeing is due to the positioning of the shot and the effects the sun has on that positioning. A very elementary common knowledge if you ask me. The color of anything will vary depending on the conditions from which you are looking at it, whether it is lighting, height, etc. That in no regards means that the surface has differed in any way but is just an optical illusion.

I too share your liking for Chrysler, Flatiron, and American Radiator as visually (in detail) superior to the Empire State Building. The ESB, while does possess its share of detail and charm, draws its icon status from height and seniority. Chrysler on the other hand is dressed head to toe in astonishing elegance and detail. Point is they’re two different building that draw their elegance from different ways.

As far as understanding goes, if I didn’t want to understand I wouldn’t waste my time in going back in forth with you on the matter. I think the point that you’re trying to make is justified through a common optical perception mistake. The ESB’s façade is simply going to look different when looking at it from Fifth Avenue as oppose to looking at it from the Southern end of the West Side Highway. Distance and conditions alter the optical perception of anything.

I also find your other assumptions rather humorous such as ‘don’t tell me you’ve been discussing the façade of the ESB many times.’ I really can decipher where you get off making that assumption, and judging by your own in regards to the ESB I would say you indeed haven’t.

And as far as what you studied is concerned, good for you. I don’t see what calls for you saying that, more so just a crude attempt to look for attention? However if you indeed studied what you say you did we shouldn’t be having this conversation now should we? No, I’d say not. Please don’t take any of this the wrong way, I rather enjoy debating this because I think it’s a common misperception.

The Empire State Building represents not only NYC but America as a whole. The building is just breath taking, and breath giving. I only wish Chicago had a building of this magnitude, height, and style (art Deco). We only have mostly modern towers that i LOVE, but nothing similar in style as this. Maybe 2 PRU, but thats modern. I remember when i went to NY, I fell in love with this building, sadly enough, i didnt make it to the obs Deck. As soon as this renovation is completed, I plan to make my next and second visit to NYC.

Wow!!!
No matter how tall skyscrapers get the empire state building will always be the king!!!!!

Long live the king!!!!!!:haha:

That's true, for so many reasons. But mainly because for nearly four decades it stood, the tallest of the tall, in really the only city in the world that built them tall. It's nearest rival was the Chrysler Building (legendary in it's own right), but the scale really wasn't the same. When you talked of a really tall skyscraper, the ESB was it. No questions asked. But things are so very different today. It's exciting for skyscraper lovers to see so many superskyscrapers growing around the world. But there's really no one that captures that essence the ESB had (and still has). It's the tower that gave some comfort and hope to its hometown in its darkest hour - after 9/11. The lights shone bright throughout the night - all night, a sign that the skyline was still there. And the people were thankful for it. The end of it's 2nd reign as New York's tallest will come in a few years, but it will forever be special. In a sense, it's still the tallest of the tall.

you coulden't of said it better.

^^ Right on, NYguy.

The Empire State Building was the reason I became interested in skyscrapers in the first place. For the longest time, I didn't even know the World Trade Center even existed, and that it was even taller than the ESB. Of course, I was only 6 years old, and I eventually learned to love the WTC just as much when I went to high school just a few blocks from it.

More to the point, the ESB made me crazy for and obsessed about skyscrapers for a while. But in recent years, my interest in skyscrapers has gone down: besides a select few, they don't do much for me anymore. In fact, the reason I joined SSP was not to discuss skyscrapers but to discuss in that crazy Walled City of Kowloon thread. I'm sorry to say that skyscrapers..... bore me nowadays.

None of the ones that have been built or proposed in the last decade or so hold the same sway for me. And the artform and distiction of skyscrapers has been completely drubbed out in Dubai and the other emirates as soon as they decided to churn out skyscrapers as if there were a factory to produce them. And I feel the same way towards the ones being built in Asia and even the U.S. There just isn't any magic to building them anymore, just bragging rights and the belief that a bunch of them can legitimize your city to the world.

When the twins fell, the ESB regained its position as New York's crown jewel. Unfortunately, the day came with a tremendous amount of loss. Nothing will be more eery than watching the ESB with its flood lights turned off that night. That will forever be one night where the skyline truly felt "Empty."

Hmmm.. I always loved the ESB but it was the WTC that turned me into an architecture fanatic. Too bad King Kong never really climbed this building. Imagine a 3-5 ton gorilla on top of this building!

What about the remake in 1976 featuring Jeff Bridges and Jessica Lange?

http://thisdistractedglobe.com/wp-co...poster%201.jpg

It's interesting that cities are doing today with skyscrapers what New York was doing a hundred years ago - building, and building higher. Back then it was the city trying to outdo itself. New York is comfortable enough with its status in the world that it doesn't feel the need to build higher anymore, but I wish that would change just a little - building something that goes beyond what we really need, just because.

From jciesielski

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3175/...5296ddab_o.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3235/...0088b8cb_o.jpg

Still the grandaddy of New York skyscraper history.

Empire State Building
 

You have really outdone yourself NYGUY. The pictures are amazing!!! Keep up the good work :)

^ Here's more from the classy Empire State...

(Pics from Herve Boinay )

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3200/...0c49512d_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3106/...e989306c_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3102/...985e6f11_b.jpg


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http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3233/...3022378e_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3119/...fd76afd4_b.jpg


New York's original freedom tower...;)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3069/...1a648401_b.jpg

From marcel.vanderhorst

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/...002b85b7_b.jpg

DECEMBER 26, 2008

Empire State and Bofa on the skyline...

1.
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469026/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469026/large.jpg

2.
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469055/large.jpg

3.
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469077/large.jpg

4.
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469096/large.jpg

5.
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469176/large.jpg

6.
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469266/large.jpg

7.
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469318/large.jpg

8.
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469362/large.jpg

9.
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469378/large.jpg

10.
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107469387/large.jpg

jbresner

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/...dd5ed552_b.jpg

Is there anything (and if not, has there ever been anything, offices, etc.) on the floors rising after the main observation floor (86) to the second observation (102)?

I forget what's actually there. Here's an look at earlier times for the antenna...
http://www.tech-notes.tv/History&Tri...les/ESB006.JPG

http://www.tech-notes.tv/History&Tri...les/ESB006.JPG

1967 Facilities

Today the Empire Slate Building occupies a unique position in the broadcast industry. It furnishes leased vertical space of 317 feet for the antennas of 22 stations. Between the 80th and 85th floors arc housed 35 separate broadcast transmitters with a combined total RF output power of over 400 KW. The Empire state Building Co. owns the master FM antenna and leases it to individual FM stations � perhaps the only such situation in the world. The company also has responsibility for general maintenance of the TV lower.

The tower is provided with a code beacon, and there is obstruction lighting at three lower levels. The mooring-mast section of the building is illuminated by flood-lights. FCC rules with respect to tower painting are waived in favor of tower lighting 24 hours per day.

The Future

Some time ago, a feasibility study was conducted by a consulting engineering firm for the Empire State Building Co. This study showed that the mooring mast could hold several more UHF antennas. Currently a CP is held by WTVE (ch. 41). licensed to Patterson, N. J., which proposes another antenna on the building. Another FM station is considering using the master FM antenna. Also, WABC-FM, WCBS-FM. and WNDT plan to install new antennas during the summer of 1967.

The world's most unusual antenna site may not exist much longer. Recently, the Port of New York Authority has been planning the construction of twin 110-story skyscrapers in Lower Manhattan. Independent studies by Alford Manufacturing Co, and Jansky and Bailey have shown that the proposed towers would cause ghosting to some viewers watching some of the TV stations presently on the Empire State Building. Several solutions to the program have been advanced, one being to relocate antennas from Empire State to the new, taller structures (to be known as the World Trade Center).

Whatever the future of the Empire State Building antenna site. it remains a monument to the ability of broadcast engineers and stations to cooperate for their mutual welfare and for the public benefit.

lumenz


New uniforms...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3235/...8ee4fb.jpg?v=0


More from the top of the spire (102nd floor)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/...67ca3b.jpg?v=0


86th floor observation deck...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3265/...ca7d9c19_b.jpg


Hazy Downtown view...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/...a98f30c4_b.jpg


Back to Midtown...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3208/...8d86fd8b_b.jpg

Have the renovations been finished yet?

Doesn't seem like it. I've been going back every few weeks to check - I can't wait to see the renovated ceiling murals!

When TV broadcasting is changed from analog to digital, can all of those TV antennas at the top of the ESB come down?

Wait, 1,472 ft, NYguy? I thought it was around 1,450 ft. That would make it pretty much tied with Petronas.

The symbol of the skyscraper, a beautiful veteran.
Great building. :cheers:

Not likely. Like the Conde Naste antenna (which will remain in operation), the use goes beyond television broadcasting.


I believe 1,472 ft to be the height of the original antenna, before it was changed to 1,454 ft. I'm not sure if it has changed since then.

From mudpig

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/...50b9abb0_b.jpg

Vinaixa

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Bunky1603

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3192/...9568c760_b.jpg

Eric Aubin - Ottawa

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cerdsp

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3297/...16b8cdd2_b.jpg

I hope you don't mind a noob posting a pic up. This was taken while leaning out of a cab on my first ever trip to NYC last spring. You can imagine the culture shock this farm boy from the midwest had upon arriving in town. lol Unfotunately I was only able to spend about 10 hours in the city so I didn't get to see much but I did full fill a life long goal of going to the top of the Empire State Building. I could have spent all day up there..... maybe next time.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...mpirestate.jpg

Hope you got pics while up there!

Oh I did. Lots of pictures. I was like a kid in a candy store up there.

Phillip Morton

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3532/...d91c7cf0_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3412/...23a28838_b.jpg

PhotoParadiso

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3341/...a9a19074_b.jpg

Last week's race to the top...

NYRR

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http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3507/...491c21.jpg?v=0___http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3521/...afbddd.jpg?v=0


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lo maximo...

mi ciudad preferida.

No habla esponal senor

Steve and Sarah

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3467/...c0cf4c37_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/...494bf463_b.jpg