No more skyscrapers for San Francisco?
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/05/san-...er-battle.html
For those of you in the city, is this new or has this been brewing for some time? |
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The key isnt to limit development its to figure out what is making it so difficult for developers to build affordable housing not just in San Francisco but in neighboring and commuter cities. Figure out that issue, dont limit office development. |
The decline continues...
Tune in to season 2 where we discuss how the solution to housing and office needs IS not to build housing or office. |
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If one is not rich or well off, the Bay Area will eat you alive in this current housing climate. But nobody seems to care, and will defend that this is false (that the housing situation is fine). |
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-------------------------------- Anyway, I've been working 12 hours a day and didn't even realize this dumb prop had passed. It will get challenged, and hopefully fall in court. There was a prop passed in the 1980s that had a similar goal, and it messed up skyscraper construction for the entire 1990s. That said, we eventually did get the current skyscraper boom. |
I feel like this is a reasonable idea. We need more affordable housing in San Francisco, and in the Bay Area in general, and with the current demand for office space in the city, this should help spur the construction of more affordable housing.
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Like I said, folks ignoring the issues at hand when presented with the raw truth. Over regulation, and an inhospitable housing climate. Its not like we don't live in an era where info isn't readily available, like housing info or homeless stats or info on the gripes of the business community. Its not some voodoo trade secret that SF is a very tough environment to get developments going, as it is to live expense wise. Its quite evident that if your well off (good income) or rich, the bay area is manageable. Yeah you can scrap by with a shoe box unit and pay-check to pay-check, but that's kinda a not so desirable outcome is it? EVEN in the article, the locals are happy (NIMBYS) but the business community is venting their frustrations. Of course the locals are happy, the very anti-development mindset that serves to drive prices up and keep new folks out or even reduce the amount of business. If I didn't know any better, hmmm... might be some selfishness, as that tone of your reply indicates and possibly a protective bubble mentality when challenged on the circle of fermenting chaos that is self-induced among the SF community. |
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Look, you can write whatever you like about people and places you've never known; each time, though, it becomes more clear that you don't know what you're talking about. Quote:
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If you must declare what other people are thinking and how other people are living based on third-hand knowledge, you're better off sticking with people and places you actually know a little something about beyond Fox News clips. Perhaps you can tell us about Sbarro customers at the mall? |
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:facepalm: You've spent more time attacking me (emotional) than debating with counterpoints. Typical... |
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I must've been living here too long to realize I'm fermenting in my own chaos. :cheers: |
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Don't you understand, homebucket? He watches Fox News! That means he knows more about us than we do, and everyone should take notes while the Professor expounds on people he doesn't know in places he's never been! |
Indeed its self induced. The local opposition is incredible when it comes to skyscrapers and providing ample housing. Measures taken are marginal if that. Now with "self-induced", there is an indication that it pertains to NIMBYS, and not everyone. The politicians, the local community boards the stifle development (often wealthy), and the over-regulated nature makes it hard for the law of supply with respect to demand to adequately address the present and future needs.
All one has to do is look at the pipeline report for your city on various quarters both this year and/or the past years, and look at the trends for actual construction versus the immense backlog. Its a slow process, hindered by a slew of other issues that plague the soft cost stage of things. Proposition E, yet another hinderance. I just find it difficult on a concept level how your fine Craig with ridiculous rents that are only rising, and property prices across the region that are not ideal for any middle class folks. And now, restrictions on office and skyscraper construction mitigation. I suppose if your fine with long term diminishing results, if that's your cup of tea, so be it. Quote:
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Second, if you can manage to read my first post in this thread you'll see I called this prop dumb and predicted a legal fight. You just keep on insisting you know things you don't, like how other people think, out of sheer ignorance and bluster. College would do you a world of good. |
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In all fairness, you dismissed my original post (4th post in this thread) by going on a rant about how I should essentially mind my own business regarding SF. So the perception of it based on your emotional outburst would indicate that you disagree with what I'm saying. And yet again, you state "You just keep on insisting you know things you don't, like how other people think, out of sheer ignorance and bluster. College would do you a world of good". Not a good way to start a discussion. See this was what I was baiting at in the post #4, the reaction indicative in people that think its just dandy and fine. I suppose I should of clarified the intent on those that think its dandy being the "NIMBYS", instead of assuming folks would pick up on it (since SSP general is pro-development), but than a response of "the competition is fierce to live and work here" ... which is very complacent in nature. Yes, folks know its competitive and fierce, but thats the issue. Competitive in the wrong things, like housing prices or competitive in making developers harder. I really have no intent of starting a quarrel with an individual... but against bad policies, like this one, and a string of other issues that effect skyscrapers (commercial, residential), of course. This is just not a SF issue, its also common in my neck of the woods, and also fueled by the NIMBYS. We too have a share of inane policies in the pipeline being proposed that do nothing but hinder growth. |
prop E is complicated.
it has nothing to do with skycrapers. it doesn't change any height limits. although prop E introduces a very high "tax" on office development, it also creates a path to build an essentially unlimited amount of office IF you build lots of affordable housing - 809 units per million square feet of office space. call it roughly half a million square feet of affordable housing for every million square feet of office. affordable housing can be built cheaper than office, so practically speaking this is something like a 30 to 40% "tax" on office space. residential already has a requirement for somewhere between 18 and 40 percent affordable units, so in some twisted sense this is just extending that policy to office. as i understand it also overlaps/eliminates the jobs-housing-linkage fee, which was already at almost $70 a square foot, or about 15% of the construction cost of office space. this won't make much of a dent on any immediately proposed office towers. all of the major projects in central soma are exempt of already approved. i don't necessarily agree with elberling on this, but it's not as insane as it sounds, and there was a certain political genius to creating exemptions for central soma and a path forward for certain other sites than can provide the housing - it essentially removed the opposition that would have normally come to fight such a thing. |
This only restricts office space. Calling it a skyscraper ban is extremely misleading.
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^^Ok. Is the city running out of space/lots to build on or not?
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I fully expect to see a bunch of 800-900k square feet office tower proposals.
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What is it about SF that they keep pushing with this failed idea over and over again that if the city stops building, people will stop coming?
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