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alanlutz Feb 7, 2013 3:32 AM

Procab, that is an EXCELLENT Then and Now match up photo! Can you also include a "location shot" maybe from an aerial on Google Earth?

Mr.Swink Feb 7, 2013 3:38 AM

The Langham lobby beautiful, those faux statues... not so much.
 
I think the Langham lobby is more beautiful than the pictures. Well except for those statues. A year before I moved out of the Langham they bought those foam faux Art Deco angel statues from a cinema prop house and put them in the lobby. I always thought they looked horrible in the lobby because they didn't fit in with the Beaux-Arts tudor style. Not to mention the hard foam material they are made of just seems cheap compared to the beauty and detail of the structure. Some times I tell people I moved out of the Langham because of those statues, even though it isn't true. Side note. I find it funny the company that manages the Langham refers to it as an Art Deco building on their website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6003801)


Wig-Wag Feb 7, 2013 4:15 AM

Water Channel in Elysian Park.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by procab (Post 6004687)
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f9...206_094009.jpg

I did a little walkabout in this area this morning. In the center of the latest pic is a road that is 10-20 feet above where the earlier pic shows the canal. Apparently the hillside slid on top of this this section. Note the eucalyptus tree to the left of the road, its base is very near the level of the canal. I wonder if it is related to the tree in the earlier pic.

South of the slide there is much evidence the canal still exists albeit under a foot or two of silt and debris from decades without maintenance.

I will post more pics as time permits.

PS: after viewing sections of this today I don't think the term zanja is correct for this water works. This is a fully concrete lined canal with some sophisticated engineering.

Great detective work Procab!

When you first mentioned that you thought the channel might still exist I was doubtful as I remembered a mudslide in that area sometime in the 1970's but I did not comment on it as I could not find a date.

Now, you say that you think the surviving sections are too well built to have been a Zanja. If you have the time and inclination the next time you are in the area, take a look at the channel at the Elysian Reservoir. if the sections are comparable, perhaps this was an overflow channel from the reservoir to the river.

After reviewing your photo some more, I am wondering about the rectangular object in the center of picture (at the end of the road). Can you shed some light on that?

Cheers,
Jack

kznyc2k Feb 7, 2013 5:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6003366)
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7718/00099012.jpgLAPL


I've puzzled over this Schultheis shot for a while now. It's labeled by the LAPL as "Alvarado Street in the Westlake area," which seems accurate. I would assume that it would have been shot more in the upper reaches of Alvarado, where high Victorians were built, rather than below MacArthur Park. I've even held a mirror up to what appears to be a sign on top of a steep-roofed building that might offer a clue, and can't read it. Perhaps someone more familiar with the area might have an idea of what that building might be. I wonder if what caught Schultheis's eye might have been the juxtaposition of the vertical Victorian with the horizontal lines of the low building, and the spikes of the lamps and the house. Also...the lamps themselves might offer a clue. They were used on Alvarado, but perhaps only on certain stretches.

Found it! Or at least I'm 99% sure I did. What we're looking at is approximately 825 South Alvarado, in between 8th Street and 9th/James M Wood Blvd. I first found it by scanning over Historic Aerials footage from 1948:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2271/ha1948.png

And after that I went to the usual places to find more evidence:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/611...ial1940080.jpg
August 7, 1940, LAPL

Zeroed in:

http://imageshack.us/a/img515/7663/19400807.jpg
LAPL

Of course one of the key pieces to go on was the large building with rooftop sign in the background, which seems to match with what we see in this cropped aerial:

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/751/1954.png
1954, USC

That building is the former William Penn Hotel at 2208 West 8th:

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/7238/pennwhittington.png
1929, Dick Whittington, USC

http://imageshack.us/a/img38/5286/pennad.png
Antiquarius

But back to the houses, here's another severely cropped aerial, this time looking south, with the 1930s-era house hidden by its Victorian neighbor:

http://imageshack.us/a/img163/5941/1960iz.jpg
1960, USC

The Queen Anne was gone by 1972, while the deco house disappeared somewhere between then and 1980. This is from 1972:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6895/1972.png
Historic Aerials

Here's what's there today:

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/9475/gmaps1.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img339/7269/gmaps2.jpg

^ note the streetlights to the far right...a dead ringer for what we in the original shot, though the ones in the original shot have long since disappeared in favor of a parking lot entrance. Also note that the William Penn Hotel has lost its chateau-esque roof; it looks like it was gone by the time the 1972 aerial was taken.

Also note the fire hydrant at the far corner of the property:

http://imageshack.us/a/img22/1038/gmaps3hydrant.jpg

It doesn't look to be an exact match to the one in the original shot, but it's close, and it seems to be in the right location:

http://imageshack.us/a/img21/9803/lo...8midalvara.jpg
Hermann Schultheis, LAPL

Lastly for now, I couldn't find any shots showing the sign on the roof of the William Penn, though looking at the above it does seem like you can kinda/sorta make out a backwards "PENN". Other than that I'm stumped on the sign.

DouglasUrantia Feb 7, 2013 6:20 AM

Huge statues overwhelm lobby.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Swink (Post 6004728)
I think the Langham lobby is more beautiful than the pictures. Well except for those statues. A year before I moved out of the Langham they bought those foam faux Art Deco angel statues from a cinema prop house and put them in the lobby. I always thought they looked horrible in the lobby because they didn't fit in with the Beaux-Arts tudor style. Not to mention the hard foam material they are made of just seems cheap compared to the beauty and detail of the structure. Some times I tell people I moved out of the Langham because of those statues, even though it isn't true. Side note. I find it funny the company that manages the Langham refers to it as an Art Deco building on their website.

I have to agree. Those faux gold winged statues are wildly out of scale for the room. The fireplace sets the tone of the scale.

ProphetM Feb 7, 2013 6:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 6004842)
Found it! Or at least I'm 99% sure I did. What we're looking at is approximately 825 South Alvarado, in between 8th Street and 9th/James M Wood Blvd. I first found it by scanning over Historic Aerials footage from 1948:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2271/ha1948.png

And after that I went to the usual places to find more evidence:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/611...ial1940080.jpg
August 7, 1940, LAPL

Zeroed in:

http://imageshack.us/a/img515/7663/19400807.jpg
LAPL

Of course one of the key pieces to go on was the large building with rooftop sign in the background, which seems to match with what we see in this cropped aerial:

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/751/1954.png
1954, USC

That building is the former William Penn Hotel at 2208 West 8th:

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/7238/pennwhittington.png
1929, Dick Whittington, USC

http://imageshack.us/a/img38/5286/pennad.png
Antiquarius

But back to the houses, here's another severely cropped aerial, this time looking south, with the 1930s-era house hidden by its Victorian neighbor:

http://imageshack.us/a/img163/5941/1960iz.jpg
1960, USC

The Queen Anne was gone by 1972, while the deco house disappeared somewhere between then and 1980. This is from 1972:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6895/1972.png
Historic Aerials

Here's what's there today:

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/9475/gmaps1.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img339/7269/gmaps2.jpg

^ note the streetlights to the far right...a dead ringer for what we in the original shot, though the ones in the original shot have long since disappeared in favor of a parking lot entrance. Also note that the William Penn Hotel has lost its chateau-esque roof; it looks like it was gone by the time the 1972 aerial was taken.

Also note the fire hydrant at the far corner of the property:

http://imageshack.us/a/img22/1038/gmaps3hydrant.jpg

It doesn't look to be an exact match to the one in the original shot, but it's close, and it seems to be in the right location:

http://imageshack.us/a/img21/9803/lo...8midalvara.jpg
Hermann Schultheis, LAPL

Lastly for now, I couldn't find any shots showing the sign on the roof of the William Penn, though looking at the above it does seem like you can kinda/sorta make out a backwards "PENN". Other than that I'm stumped on the sign.

I must agree with your sleuthing. Excellent job!

GaylordWilshire Feb 7, 2013 3:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 6004842)
Found it! Or at least I'm 99% sure I did. What we're looking at is approximately 825 South Alvarado, in between 8th Street and 9th/James M Wood Blvd.

That building is the former William Penn Hotel at 2208 West 8th:

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/7238/pennwhittington.png
1929, Dick Whittington, USC


http://imageshack.us/a/img163/5941/1960iz.jpg
1960, USC



http://imageshack.us/a/img339/7269/gmaps2.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img21/9803/lo...8midalvara.jpg
Hermann Schultheis, LAPL

Fantastic job, kznyc2K. You've definitely got it. I kept looking for a peaked-roof apartment building, not knowing that not only was the William Penn's sign gone, but so was its entire roof:

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7592/pennnowdual.jpgyou-are-here


The Victorian was 817 S Alvarado, lived in for many years by the family of Edward C Magauran; Daisy Nance was in residence in the '50s. When I first saw the newer building next door, I suspected that rather than being a residence, it might be doctors' offices. And indeed, three doctors had offices at 825...at least they did in the mid '50s.

Perhaps what is even more interesting--or would be, if I could find a picture of it--was the house just to the north of the Victorian, where there is a Standard station in the aerial above (left of center). The gas station took the place of the grand Charles A Canfield house at 803 S Alvarado, which took up three lots of the original subdivision. Canfield was Edward Doheny's partner, and his family provided the tabloids of the day with lots of scandal. In 1906 his wife was shot to death on the front porch of 803 by a disgruntled enployee; his son Orville had a nasty divorce in the 'teens, and his son shot himself in a hunting accident in 1917. And then there was Charles A's daughter Daisy, who we've seen here before: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=2349. (A fuller story on her is here.) In 1920, the family gave the house to the University of California, along with an endowment, for it to be turned into a research laboratory.

GaylordWilshire Feb 7, 2013 5:07 PM

Canfield history: Dying of laughter is a nice way to go...
 
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/812...ldmainabit.jpg
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5...art2compl8.jpgLAT



And then there's this on the early noirish murder of Mrs. Canfield (I'm sure that the L.A. papers must have covered it, but I could only find this from the San Francisco Chronicle:


http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1...fieldcompl.jpg
[url]http://www.sfgate.com/[/IMG]San Francisco Chronicle

kznyc2k Feb 7, 2013 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6005191)
When I first saw the newer building next door, I suspected that rather than being a residence, it might be doctors' offices. And indeed, three doctors had offices at 825...at least they did in the mid '50s.

That explains one of the lingering questions in my head about this location, that being why in every single aerial shot I found the backyard of the supposed residence had nothing but a big parking lot there. And that also illustrates quite nicely how we ended up with the medical offices we have today.

Godzilla Feb 7, 2013 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6004592)
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/811...ctdual1250.jpg
5350 South Victoria Drive


http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4...ctdual1250.jpg
5465 South Victoria Drive



A great-grandson of builder Carl G. Johnson has pictures of a number of his great-grandfather's projects in a photostream online; I've paired them with current shots. According to Josh Phillipson (the great-grandson), Mr. Johnson arrived from San Francisco in 1910 and built his first house at 943 South Normandie that year; apparently he would build a house and his family would move into it; then he built another and they would move into that one, and so on. (I feel as though we've seen 943 here before, but I can't find it now.)Josh Phillipson/GSV

I know you didn't miss the home (formerly) at 507 Shatto Place.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2445/3...158925b6_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jphillipson


A short jog from this address, at the corner of New Hampshire Avenue and 4th Street, is an interesting and imposing Korean Church that started out as the Sinai Temple East. At some point the temple served as a temporary home for the University of Judaism, now on the westside. Not unlike the former William Penn Hotel, over the years it appears to have lost parts of its roof/towers. I am sure it's been mentioned, but I am assuming the missing architecture is all a result of the Field Act, following the '33 Quake.


Although the source indicates a '47 -'48 date, the thick, illuminated stop sign, is a good indicator that the date may be as early as the late '20s early '30s. ;)

http://imgzoom.cdlib.org/Converter?i...=0&w=879&h=736CalStLib

http://imgzoom.cdlib.org/Converter?i...5&w=1200&h=736

Noirish view from Vermont Ave.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/9cd50150b...natdo1_500.jpghttp://www.tumblr.com/tagged/vermont%20avenue



A contemporary view of the structure along with a temporary structure in the foreground. :rolleyes:
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4025/4...0d34eaa8_z.jpgFlickr

Godzilla Feb 7, 2013 6:10 PM

http://www.conservation.ca.gov/cgs/N...3_poster_2.jpghttp://www.google.com/

http://www.conservation.ca.gov/cgs/N...33_schools.jpghttp://www.conservation.ca.gov/cgs/N...33_schools.jpg

A lengthy compilation of '33-Quake related photos. "There it is, take it!" >>> http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/search.cgi?search_mode=exact&selection=Long+Beach,+California,+Earthquake+March+10,+1933|Long+Beach|Earthquake|1933


March 10, 1933. Earth slip at San Clemente. Fixer upper?
http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/html...8/pca00011.jpg
http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/cgi-...11&SIZE=medium

Long Beach Polytechnic High School. March 10, 1933.
http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/html...6/stan0001.jpg

http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/cgi-...01&SIZE=medium



Compton Junior High
http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/html...6/eng00011.jpg
http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/cgi-...11&SIZE=medium

BifRayRock Feb 7, 2013 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 4452813)
Another art deco gem can be seen in the distance on the right.
It's the department store Bullocks Wilshire.

The photo is from 1954
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9...uliewilson.jpg
juliewilsonsworld

Undated - comparison photo from some 20 years earlier. Later in the afternoon (5:15 PM ?) The haphazard traffic suggests a strong need for electronic traffic controls or courteous pedestrians and drivers.:rolleyes:

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0USC Digital

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0


http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0


http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0


http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0All USC Digital


Mr.Swink Feb 7, 2013 8:48 PM

Now I know why.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 6005401)
That explains one of the lingering questions in my head about this location, that being why in every single aerial shot I found the backyard of the supposed residence had nothing but a big parking lot there. And that also illustrates quite nicely how we ended up with the medical offices we have today.

Great detective work everyone. I've been driving and walking by the William Penn for years now and every time I felt something looked odd about the building, now I know why. The lack of the peaked roof.

GaylordWilshire Feb 7, 2013 9:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 6005490)
I know you didn't miss the home (formerly) at 507 Shatto Place.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2445/3...158925b6_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jphillipson


It's gone with the rest of residential Shatto... I don't know if it was Mrs. Borlini who had Carl G. Johnson build the house, but it seems she might not have been in it very long. Her daughter seems to have very little in the way of Hollywood credits on her own, though her husband, Nacio Herb Brown, was BIG. Anyway, perhaps mama was counting on more as a Hollywood parent. It looks like she spent more than she should have on the house and magnificent furnishings, superb draperies, and a decorated baby grand piano...


http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1...rlinicompl.jpgLAT

GaylordWilshire Feb 7, 2013 9:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BifRayRock (Post 6005541)
Undated - comparison photo from some 20 years earlier. Later in the afternoon (5:15 PM ?) The haphazard traffic suggests a strong need for electronic traffic controls or courteous pedestrians and drivers.:rolleyes:

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0USC Digital


I'm reminded of this hair-raising short film:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A...2520PM.bmp.jpg

See it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmj1qfo--gY



I hate what was done to the building at the southwest corner of Wilshire and Vermont... but it's gone now so I guess it doesn't matter...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--...352%2520PM.jpgGSV

BifRayRock Feb 7, 2013 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6005805)
I'm reminded of this hair-raising short film:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A...2520PM.bmp.jpg

See it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmj1qfo--gY



I hate what was done to the building at the southwest corner of Wilshire and Vermont... but it's gone now so I guess it doesn't matter...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--...352%2520PM.jpgGSV





The intersection seems to be a constant vortex for change.

Appears that the street lighting was in transition. Notice post without lighting fixture
http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0


http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...SLA&DMROTATE=0All USC Digital

Notice changed roofing and construction above the drug store - in conformity with - something.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9...uliewilson.jpg


I suppose it goes without saying that the Hancock mansion was at this intersection - until 1938. (GW's post 9389)

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3221/2...9f40bcc4_b.jpghttp://www.flickr.com/photos/7294653...n/photostream/



http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...XT=&DMROTATE=0

tovangar2 Feb 7, 2013 9:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 6004842)
Found it!

Outstanding!

tovangar2 Feb 7, 2013 9:53 PM

Lapd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by [I
Nomad13;6001960] - I ... am fascinated by the thirties and forties Los Angeles - particularly the "bent" police force.

Check the news out of LA today. This town never changes. We're not only built on corruption, we're made out of it.

Godzilla Feb 7, 2013 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 6005490)

A short jog from this address, at the corner of New Hampshire Avenue and 4th Street, is an interesting and imposing Korean Church that started out as the Sinai Temple East. At some point the temple served as a temporary home for the University of Judaism, now on the westside. Not unlike the former William Penn Hotel, over the years it appears to have lost parts of its roof/towers. I am sure it's been mentioned, but I am assuming the missing architecture is all a result of the Field Act, following the '33 Quake.


Although the source indicates a '47 -'48 date, the thick, illuminated stop sign, is a good indicator that the date may be as early as the late '20s early '30s. ;)

http://imgzoom.cdlib.org/Converter?i...=0&w=879&h=736CalStLib

http://imgzoom.cdlib.org/Converter?i...5&w=1200&h=736

Noirish view from Vermont Ave.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/9cd50150b...natdo1_500.jpghttp://www.tumblr.com/tagged/vermont%20avenue



A contemporary view of the structure along with a temporary structure in the foreground. :rolleyes:
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4025/4...0d34eaa8_z.jpgFlickr

In 1909, the Temple Sinai congregation originally started out at Valencia and 12th Street in Pico-Union District. In 1926 the Welsh Presbyterian Church made the building its home. Last year, the building was sold again and two church congregations, one Hispanic and one Korean, will continue to rent space for weekly services. http://www.jewishjournal.com/los_ang..._in_pico_union

http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/...rch_020813.jpghttp://www.jewishjournal.com/los_ang..._in_pico_union
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-c-AAgKuft4...es_FTM6703.jpghttp://llanblogger.blogspot.com/2013...isteddfod.html

GaylordWilshire Feb 7, 2013 11:07 PM

Wilshire & Vermont
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BifRayRock (Post 6005816)

The intersection seems to be a constant vortex for change.

Appears that the street lighting was in transition. Notice post without lighting fixture
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c...2520PM.bmp.jpg


I suppose it goes without saying that the Hancock mansion was at this intersection - until 1938. (GW's post 9389)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U...thancock75.jpg



Speaking of the intersection as a constant vortex of change... while looking for a picture showing what might have been atop the smaller pole in BifRayRock's top shot above, I came across a view showing the Hancock lot empty, 3173 still standing, and 3143 replaced by a commercial building (for reference, see post 12298):


http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2378/...transcompl.jpgLAPL


The northwest corner in the beginning stages of demolition, ca. 1928. The house once belonged to L.A. muckety-muck J.F. Burkhard:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H...2520PM.bmp.jpgUSCDL



Quote:

Originally Posted by BifRayRock
Notice changed roofing and construction above the drug store - in conformity with - something.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-x...vtaabldg75.jpg


If the billboard reminded you that you need to plan your trip to Washington, here's the schedule... 7 hours, 25 minutes by piston power:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y...ltimetable.jpgAirline Timetables


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