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Los Angeles Past Jan 9, 2011 6:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 5117901)
:previous:
Ooops duh that's Flower looking south, as you've mentioned. I must've had Figueroa on the brain.



This is indeed an amazing, amazing image, gsjansen.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/...9eebabae_o.jpg

I realize this picture was taken the year California became a state. You can see that LA truly was a little pueblo along a river. Wow.

I can't stop looking at this phenomenal image! What an incredible historical treasure. First thing I went looking for was the semi-legendary ancient sycamore tree for which Aliso Street was named. I think I heard once that it was located near where the old Maier Brewery stood, but I can't see anything in that general area that stands out as possibly being the tree...

BTW, is there a URL link for this image? I'd like to learn more about its provenance, if possible.

-Scott

gsjansen Jan 9, 2011 1:49 PM

i had first found the 1850 photo posted by Jesús E. Salgado on his Evolution through time of Los Angeles California thread at Skyscraper city. it's at the bottom of the 1st page.

i did a little bit of researching the photo since, and have found a version of it on the USC Digital Archive site.

the image is reversed on the USC site, and is identified as a 1931 photograph of a 1850 model of the city.

after studying the image over the past several days, i still believe that it is an aerial that was taken in 1850 due to the angle of the image, the resolution of the buildings, and the consistent shadowing on the north/western side of the buildings, indicating that the image was taken during a winter morning sky. If it is a photo of a model of the city, why is the image centered on pasadena? why not show the whole model actually centered on los angeles proper?.....(of course i could be wrong)

it is a mystery, but i am trying to find out as much as i can about the image.

gsjansen Jan 9, 2011 4:28 PM

an amazing angels flight image taken at the grand opening of the railway, December 31st, 1901

http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ght14_9701.jpg
Source: Source Los Angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ght14_9701.jpg

some additional images, i don't think i had seen any of these previously;

http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight2_9701.jpg
Source: Los Angeles Time Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight2_9701.jpg

http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight4_9701.jpg
Source: Los angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight4_9701.jpg


http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight5_9701.jpg
Source: Los Angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight5_9701.jpg


http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ght14_9702.jpg
Source: Los Angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ght14_9702.jpg


http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight16_970.jpg
Source: Los Angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight16_970.jpg


http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ght13_9701.jpg
Source: Los Angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ght13_9701.jpg


http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight9_9701.jpg
Source: Los Angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight9_9701.jpg


http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight8_9701.jpg
Source: Los Angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight8_9701.jpg


http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight6_9701.jpg
Source: Los Angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight6_9701.jpg


http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight1_9701.jpg
Source: Los Angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....ight1_9701.jpg


http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....today2_970.jpg
Source: Los Angeles Times Photography http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....today2_970.jpg

malumot Jan 9, 2011 8:28 PM

It IS a conundrum.

--The near-view looks photograph-ish......But the far view of the hills and mountains does have that diorama look.

--Who..and why......would someone build such a thing?

--On the other hand...ballooning was pretty primitive (and rare) in 1850, right? What are the chances a balloonist is going to wind up in a back-water Hooterville like Los Angeles?



Quote:

Originally Posted by gsjansen (Post 5119239)
i had first found the 1850 photo posted by Jesús E. Salgado on his Evolution through time of Los Angeles California thread at Skyscraper city. it's at the bottom of the 1st page.

i did a little bit of researching the photo since, and have found a version of it on the USC Digital Archive site.

the image is reversed on the USC site, and is identified as a 1931 photograph of a 1850 model of the city.

after studying the image over the past several days, i still believe that it is an aerial that was taken in 1850 due to the angle of the image, the resolution of the buildings, and the consistent shadowing on the north/western side of the buildings, indicating that the image was taken during a winter morning sky. If it is a photo of a model of the city, why is the image centered on pasadena? why not show the whole model actually centered on los angeles proper?.....(of course i could be wrong)

it is a mystery, but i am trying to find out as much as i can about the image.


GaylordWilshire Jan 9, 2011 10:43 PM

Where is the clock now?
 
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics46/00042921.jpg
LAPL http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics46/00042921.jpg
Per the LAPL: "W. J. Martin stands next to the clock formerly
mounted on the old Los Angeles County Courthouse on
March 2, 1936. He was a supervisor before the newly-
demolished courthouse was built."


http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics46/00042920.jpg
LAPL http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics46/00042920.jpg
Per the LAPL: "Officials presenting the old courthouse clock to the Los Angeles County Museum on
March 2, 1932 [sic]. Left to right are: Hugh A. Thatcher, P. F. Cogswell, R. W. Pridham, Henry W.
Wright, James Hay, W. J. Martin, J. S. Dodge, Fred J. Beatty, W. A. Bryan (director of the museum),
J. J. Hamilton, J. R. Quinn, J. Don Wahaffey, V. E. Hinshaw, F. E. Woodley, Dr. J. W. Bovard, and
Frank Shaw."


http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics46/00042901.jpg
LAPL http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics46/00042901.jpg
Per the LAPL: "The huge clock that once towered over
the civic center from atop the old red sandstone
courthouse at Temple Street and Broadway is on display
on March 20, 1974 in the lobby of the Criminal Courts
Building. The clock is part of an exhibit detailing the
history of the civic center growth from 1891 to 1973."


http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics17/00018304.jpg
LAPL http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics17/00018304.jpg
Sometime after the 1933 Long Beach
earthquake, before the temporary hip roof on
the shortened tower and total demolition.

Los Angeles Past Jan 9, 2011 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5119676)
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics46/00042921.jpg
LAPL http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics46/00042921.jpg
Per the LAPL: "W. J. Martin stands next to the clock formerly
mounted on the old Los Angeles County Courthouse on
March 2, 1936. He was a supervisor before the newly-
demolished courthouse was built."

I've often wondered if there was a bell or chimes that sounded on the hour from the old Court House clock tower.

Were there also bells in the clockless tower of old City Hall on Broadway? And if it wasn't a bell tower, what was it for? Simple architectural adornment?

-Scott

mdiederi Jan 10, 2011 4:43 AM

Helms Bakery located on Venice Blvd opened in 1931 and was in operation for four decades. They had a fleet of trucks that would deliver baked goods direct to homes all over the Los Angeles area some going as far as the eastern San Gabriel Valley. The building was restored in the 1970's, including the neon sign, and is now full of furniture and interior design studios and show rooms and called the Helms Bakery District.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...i/PB300708.jpg
http://openhousestaging.blogspot.com...-shopping.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/1.jpg
http://helmsbakerydistrict.com/history/helms-photos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/4.jpg
http://helmsbakerydistrict.com/history/helms-photos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/2.jpg
http://helmsbakerydistrict.com/history/helms-photos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/5.jpg
http://helmsbakerydistrict.com/history/helms-photos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/7.jpg
http://helmsbakerydistrict.com/history/helms-photos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/8.jpg
http://helmsbakerydistrict.com/history/helms-photos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/31.jpg
http://helmsbakerydistrict.com/history/helms-photos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/20.jpg
http://helmsbakerydistrict.com/history/helms-photos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...deri/helms.jpg
http://blogging.la/2010/10/08/archiv...akery/helms-2/

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...eri/YtA0f2.jpg
http://gogonotes.blogspot.com/2009/0...lver-city.html

Some of the trucks are still around and collector's items.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...nderground.jpg
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=12&f=3988&t=6525515

Los Angeles Past Jan 10, 2011 5:16 AM

I remember Helms well. I loved their buttermilk donuts. Mom loved their daily door-to-door service. They gave their customers a cardboard sign that had a ship's helm with a big "H" in the middle, and if you wanted the truck to stop by, all you had to do was put the sign in a front window. They came right around breakfast time, too, which Mom appreciated. I think Helms stopped their service to Covina in the mid- to late-'60s. I don't remember seeing the trucks anymore after I started high school in '68.

-Scott

malumot Jan 10, 2011 7:10 AM

San Gabriel Valley!!

pfffft!

malumot Jan 10, 2011 7:21 AM

A Question-------------
 
Story on the news about all the potholes after the deluge in December.

Which made me wonder....

Why aren't more streets paved in concrete? I don't think concrete has the pothole problems that asphalt does.

I recall (and many of the photos in the 124 pages of this thread will verify) that in the 1920, 30s, 40s.........a LOT of streets were paved with concrete. Many still are, for that matter. Shit lasts forever. :D


Anyone? Bueller?


gsjansen Jan 10, 2011 2:32 PM

a then (1930) and later (1978) aerial looking east on wilshire boulevard across san vicente boulevard.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/...30dbe307_b.jpg
Sources: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/search...=1294669760167 and http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/search...=1294669803547

dirensar Jan 10, 2011 2:58 PM

great sharings guys

ethereal_reality Jan 10, 2011 5:01 PM

^^^ Excellent before and after photos of the Wilshire area gsjansen.
All those years, and the school in the lower right remained virtually the same, except the track was turned into baseball diamonds.
(I just noticed that it looks like the football field became tennis courts)
Is that the Carthay Circle Theater directly above the track in the 1930s photo?

I loved mdiederi's Helm's Bakery post.
When I was in L.A. it was a cavernous antique furniture store.



Just this morning I read an article about Culver City on the BBC website of all places.
It features the old Helm's Bakery.

Here's a link.
http://www.bbc.com/travel/feature/20...r-its-close-up

gsjansen Jan 10, 2011 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5120401)

Is that the Carthay Circle Theater directly above the track in the 1930s photo?

Yes it is indeed the carthay circle theater. in the 1978 photo, it is the two squat right of center buildings. the theater was physucally located on the site of the squat building on the right

here's a 1922 image of the same intersection of san vicente and wilshire, (i think this photo may have been posted before)

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...R-VIE-004?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...R-VIE-004?v=hr

in this 1923 aerial of the intersection, you can see that McCarthy vista has been laid out, as well as the site of the carthay circle theater

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-11988?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-11988?v=hr


by 1926, the area was beginning to fill in quite a bit. the carthay circle theater has been completed

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-11990?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-11990?v=hr

here's a really nice image looking north/west from the tower of the carthay circle theater in 1929

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-7180?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-7180?v=hr

GaylordWilshire Jan 10, 2011 7:27 PM

Starring the Talmadge
 
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TS...21947%20PM.jpgLifetime Movie Network http://www.mylifetime.com/watch-full...igslist-killer

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TS...22147%20PM.jpgLifetime Movie Network http://www.mylifetime.com/watch-full...igslist-killer

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TS...12105%20PM.jpgLifetime Movie Network http://www.mylifetime.com/watch-full...igslist-killer
An actual apartment in the Talmadge was used for interior shots, above; below, out of a west
window you can see details of the Immanuel Presbyterian Church across Berendo Street.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TS...reen%20captureLifetime Movie Network http://www.mylifetime.com/watch-full...igslist-killer

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TS...22048%20PM.jpgLifetime Movie Network http://www.mylifetime.com/watch-full...igslist-killer

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics14/00026660.jpgLAPL http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics14/00026660.jpg
Newly built, ca. 1924--before the church went up across Berendo. The
big houses on Wilshire are falling, or being moved.



So I'm flipping channels last night, and I happened upon a Lifetime movie called The Craigslist Killer. I didn't recognize any of the actors other than William Baldwin (those boys don't age well, but I digress) and the faces of girlfriend's parents--but the real star of the show for our purposes here is The Talmadge at 3278 Wilshire. I was sure that we'd hit upon it here before, but a search didn't turn up anything, so now is as good a time as any to give her a post. Briefly, it seems that producer Joe Schenck built it as a present for his wife, Norma Talmadge. Or at least he built it as an investment and named it for her--no one seems to know if they ever actually lived in the building, and some sources have them moving into the Randolph Miner/Theda Bara/Fatty Arbuckle/Raoul Walsh house at 649 West Adams the same year The Talmadge was built. Btw: The bit of palm at left in the second shot above belies the movie's setting in and around Boston; this is supposed to be an apartment in Quincy, Mass. I'm not sure why I'm better able to employ my willing suspension of disbelief when an L.A. location is used for an Eastern scene, while (without having seen it yet, mind you) HBO using New York and Long Island as stand-ins for SoCal in their new Mildred Pierce just grinds my gears. But--to be fair to myself--murder though there may be, The Craigslist Killer ain't no Mildred Pierce, and, after all, as much as I like Boston, I don't spend alot of free time on a "Noirish Boston" website. We all know that Boston sends its noir west... i.e., Miss Short.



http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics14/00026649.jpgLAPL http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics14/00026649.jpg
Per the LAPL: "Corner view of the Talmadge
Apartments at 3278 Wilshire Boulevard.
Sign above the entrance says, 'Francesca.'"
Not sure why the entrance sign might have
said that, but perhaps that was its name
initially: Norma starred in Paola and
Francesca
in 1911.... (Btw, her career
faded with the talkies.)

Full story and some excellent interior and exterior shots here:
http://www.uglyangel.net/2009/05/par...re-almost.html

ethereal_reality Jan 10, 2011 7:41 PM

^^^Great post on the Talmadge Apartments GW.


In gsjansen's post #2474, I take it the rectangles along Wilshire in the 1922 photo are over-sized billboards.
(at first I thought they were drawn, like the arrow)

The last photo is great with the shadow of the tower of the Carthay Circle Theater.

GaylordWilshire Jan 10, 2011 9:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsjansen (Post 5120470)


Quote:

Originally Posted by malumot (Post 5120149)
Story on the news about all the potholes after the deluge in December.

Which made me wonder....

Why aren't more streets paved in concrete? I don't think concrete has the pothole problems that asphalt does.

I recall (and many of the photos in the 124 pages of this thread will verify) that in the 1920, 30s, 40s.........a LOT of streets were paved with concrete. Many still are, for that matter. Shit lasts forever. :D

Even in dopey Oxnard, where I grew up, neighborhoods that were built in the 30s and 40s had concrete streets. But by the time my neighborhood was built (1960) it was all asphalt.

Anyone? Bueller?



I know they exist in other places, but one of the many things that have always suggested old L.A. to me are whitish concrete streets with contrasting tar lines randomly covering cracks--something I must have seen in movies and on tv and lumped together with sun and palms and mountains in the background. Your photo above, gs, came up just as I was looking for a shot to illustrate what I mean. Presumably, malumot, asphalt is cheaper to install than concrete initially, but I doubt it could be more economical over the long term. (Maybe the asphalt purveyors have a stronger lobby than the concrete boys.) At some point in my L.A. perambulations, I discovered an interesting juncture of asphalt and concrete in Windsor Square:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TS...23122%20PM.jpgGoogle Street View
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TS...23116%20PM.jpgGoogle Street View
West 4th Street, east from Lucerne toward Plymouth

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TS...22903%20PM.jpgGoogle Street View
West 5th Street, west from Plymouth toward Lucerne


An excerpt from the Windsor Square-Hancock Park Historical Society:

"The older part of the tract was bounded by Irving Blvd., Plymouth Blvd., Third Street and Wilshire Blvd. It had a linear street layout with wide streets, wide parkways, elaborate electoliers and trees for which $200,000 was expended. The ornamental light standards were erected with the trademark “WS” at the base. All streets were paved, utilities were underground, long term deed restrictions did not expire until 1965. $7,500 would get you a lot in Windsor Square.

"The area to the west of original Windsor Square, which includes Lucerne and Arden from Third to Fifth streets, was a different tract. This small tract was owned as of 1913 by the Wilshire Hills Land Corp.

"You can tell where the Wilshire Hills addition and the Windsor Square addition join. At the back lot lines behind Plymouth and Lucerne across 4th and 5th, you will notice that the street surface changes from concrete to asphalt which indicated that different developers laid out the streets. Also, the street lamps on the boulevards in the Wilshire Hills addition are stone, not metal, as in the original Windsor Square tract."

See also: http://www.wshphs.org/windsor.html


The concrete streets of Windsor Square are pushing 100 years old--actually, I don't really know if any of them in this district have ever been replaced, but, from the looks of them here, perhaps not. I wonder how many times the asphalt streets in the later part of Windsor have been replaced in the past century?

malumot Jan 10, 2011 10:06 PM

Concrete....
 
You're probably right on the upfront cost aspect, Gaylord. Though it seems shortsighted.

Great photos and screengrabs of the demarcation between the two paving surfaces!....

...Though it leads me to another annoyance (I have plenty.... LOL)

But seriously.......the loss of parkways. I should note that they are making a comeback, albeit in a skinnier form. But from sometime in the 50s until around the 90s they fell out of favor. Which was too bad. Even to untrained eyes like mine the softening effect a tree-planted parkway has on the visual landscape is tremendous.

sopas ej Jan 11, 2011 2:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5120611)
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics14/00026649.jpgLAPL http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics14/00026649.jpg
Per the LAPL: "Corner view of the Talmadge
Apartments at 3278 Wilshire Boulevard.
Sign above the entrance says, 'Francesca.'"
Not sure why the entrance sign might have
said that, but perhaps that was its name
initially: Norma starred in Paola and
Francesca
in 1911.... (Btw, her career
faded with the talkies.)
[/url]

Ah, the Talmadge! Love that building. I love that it's still standing.

Norma Talmadge's career may have faded with the talkies, but one of her co-stars, Gilbert Roland, made a successful transition into talkies. I'm sure he made many moviegoers swoon.
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2...allstarpic.jpg http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2845/...allstarpic.jpg
both pics, allstarpics.net

Gilbert Roland himself was actually Mexican, his real name was Luis Antonio Dámaso de Alonso, born in Ciudad Juarez in 1905 (died of cancer in Beverly Hills in 1994). His family moved to the US during the Mexican Revolution of 1910.

Here are Gilbert Roland and Norma Talmadge in the 1928 silent film, "The Woman Disputed."
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2...doctormacr.jpg
doctormacro.com

Here they are again:
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2...andnormata.jpg
allstarpics.net

And yet again:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2...talmadgeno.jpg
doctormacro.com

BrandonJXN Jan 11, 2011 3:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdiederi (Post 5120052)
Helms Bakery located on Venice Blvd opened in 1931 and was in operation for four decades. They had a fleet of trucks that would deliver baked goods direct to homes all over the Los Angeles area some going as far as the eastern San Gabriel Valley. The building was restored in the 1970's, including the neon sign, and is now full of furniture and interior design studios and show rooms and called the Helms Bakery District.

I live in Culver City and I ride my bike past this place all the time. There is a large candle making store on Washington near National that has the most incredible smells coming out of it. Alongside the bread being made there, it makes for a overload of pretty smells.


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