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Godzilla Jul 30, 2013 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsjansen (Post 5258695)
a very interesting survey of fort moore hill 1885 prior to the school building being relocated to this location

cemetery avenue became the northern extension of hill street

sand street would become california street

philadelphia street would become the northern extension of grand avenue

and canal, reservoir, short street would be incorporated into sunset boulevard

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5221/...29f1c9fb_b.jpg
Source: LAPL Visual Collections





Evidently, Eternity Drive did not last forever. Short Street is easy to miss.


1869
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...4A2TGA5HNC.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...4A2TGA5HNC.jpg



Grading Fort Hill 1875
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...GDYRU75QQT.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...GDYRU75QQT.jpg


First Street 1875
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...R8CSA1KBU8.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...R8CSA1KBU8.jpg


1883-84
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...N5Y34IKVQX.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...ICTCPDURNB.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...J5INV5ULUS.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...F5LQHX2P1G.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...QLUDVS3G3H.jpg



http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...ICTCPDURNB.jpg
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...J5INV5ULUS.jpg
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...F5LQHX2P1G.jpg
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...QLUDVS3G3H.jpg


FROM Fort Hill , 1895
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...7ESHYSUKBF.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...7ESHYSUKBF.jpg



ON Fort Hill
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...JAG2MRUFVB.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...JAG2MRUFVB.jpg


Los Angeles and Aliso Streets meet (Fort in the background) (Laundry: What would Mayor Shaw say? :no:)
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...GFJ6I9ETLJ.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...GFJ6I9ETLJ.jpg

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...BIDSAI4XDI.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...BIDSAI4XDI.jpg



1894
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...JLF3KX3S7C.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...JLF3KX3S7C.jpg



1890
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...DXSMQ9TRY4.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibris/aleph/a19_1/apache_media/
MNFC31VQA7MFKHYSU3AQDXSMQ9TRY4.jpg



1890
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...6CX8719QRB.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...6CX8719QRB.jpg


NE view
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...KM8BDSH8SL.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...KM8BDSH8SL.jpg

Godzilla Jul 30, 2013 7:44 PM

ON Fort Hill

Previously posted here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=13416

Partially denuded Fort Moore Hill featuring Page Military Academy Ad. See: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=5516


1949 Trying to decipher ad. Is it a cadet blowing a bugle?
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...TIQS8TPJAF.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...TIQS8TPJAF.jpg

CityBoyDoug Jul 30, 2013 8:55 PM

Motherly Attention....lovely.
 
!

GaylordWilshire Jul 30, 2013 9:55 PM

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B...2520PM.bmp.jpgGSV


While doing some random digging, I came across this truck on Vermont Avenue in Google Street View--

Fab Fifties Fan Jul 31, 2013 12:39 AM

A true original gone but never forgotten
 
R.I.P. Eileen Brennan

1932-2013

Lifelong Los Angelean and an ardent supporter of Vintage LA preservation. Also a damn good friend!

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2203/44ft.jpg
Last Picture Show / Sony Pictures Releasing

~Jon Paul

lead2203 Jul 31, 2013 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckaluck (Post 6213843)
Anti-ostentatious. Built to last. Each unit equipped with a well-manicured plant. (Management announces it is accepting bids for pea gravel within next 10 years.)

2500 San Fernando Rd. No date.
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...YL7USJ8U5H.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...YL7USJ8U5H.jpg

I think some of the cabins are still around at Roscoe/Tuxford and Lankershim. There where more there... but now there are 3 left.

sopas ej Jul 31, 2013 2:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srk1941 (Post 6215210)
Jack Grundfor did a few other Southern California buildings I was able to dig up in a quick search. One was the auditorium for a Glendale municipal recreation center, in 1935. Another was the Church of Latter Day Saints at Ripple and Newell. A church still stands at that site, though now it's Catholic.

Specifically, Coptic Catholic. Funny, because a few streets away, a friend of mine (with whom I've lost touch) grew up in this neighborhood, though by the time I became friends with him, he was living somewhere else. He seems to be embarrassed that he grew up in this neighborhood.

And now, a random photo of 1950s Los Ángeles freeway traffic!
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics43/00041098.jpg
LAPL

Notice the mini-guardrails at the base of the one lamp post. And how closely-spaced the road stripes seem to be compared with today.

Flyingwedge Jul 31, 2013 4:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6212039)
I remember seeing the unique rifle & pistol sign, but not from this angle.

The St. Charles Hotel between Temple and Aliso St.
http://imageshack.us/a/img21/70/4amx.jpg
ebay/date unknown

This rifle & pistol shooting sign has always intrigued me. What are the three 'vents' on top, and why is the sign so THICK?
Did it light up? (using gas perhaps) It's just really odd. It reminds me of an arcade sign at a carnival.
__

Quote:

Originally Posted by BifRayRock (Post 6212144)


Is it real? An experiment with mixed results?

Your earlier post approximated the date as 1876. Are there other images that include the sign from another vantage point?

The sign seems an historical anomaly, or maybe something other than we suspect, which may have been the primary reason for the attention-grabbing photo. Its very subject presents itself as great target for mischief. Compared with the presumably normal-sized human standing near the sign, the sign looks quite big. This might explain its width and the fancy (presumed) cast iron supports. What tends to look like vents support the conclusion of back lighting. Yet a big backlit sign would have required many lumens to be effective, so maybe given the weird scale of the sign, those are "smoke stacks" - rather than vents. A big sign might have been easier to illuminate via exterior reflected light.

Unless the maker had invented plexiglass or transparent aluminum, a backlit sign was likely mica or glass, and therefore fragile. Stones and other small objects were a known hazard to glass (and even mica) in the late 19th Century. Flying objects were known to occur when stage coaches needed to keep on schedule (verified by watching Hopalong Cassidy and Gunsmoke) and when normal school was in recess.

Did the sign advertise a shooting range that some distance away? When there was probably quite a bit of nearby unimproved land, for use as a make-shift range, was there really much demand for an in-town shooting range? (Unless it also served drinks, food and ammo.) A "legalized" in-town range would have been a nuisance to nearby humans and livestock. ("Come stay in the St. Charles Hotel! Conveniently located near a modern, state of the art, super-quiet, rifle range?")


Oh, there was a real shooting gallery there all right:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psb86c5ee6.jpg
1879 LA City Directory @ Fold3.com

April 7, 1878 LA Herald:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psf274d229.jpg
Library of Congress -- http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=1

October 4, 1878 LA Herald:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7ffce320.jpg
Library of Congress -- http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=5

As to exactly when the shooting gallery was there . . . here's a c. 1874 photo looking south on Main from the Pico House. The "Y" pattern in the dirt of Main Street opposite the two livery stables is the result of wagons turning off of Arcadia Street onto Main. South of the two livery stables, the flat wooden awning in front of the small two-story building is the same flat wooden awning shown next to the shooting gallery sign in er's photo (above):
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...pse9e5e4a8.jpg
LAPL -- http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics08/00013998.jpg

Let's zoom in a bit. The Ferguson and Metzker Livery Stable sign is in the lower right corner. South of that, the small two-story building has LAFAYETTE STORE / P. N. ROTH (and other stuff) written on it; the larger two-story building next to it is the Lafayette Hotel. The Lafayette became the Cosmopolitan in April 1879 (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=2) and later the St. Elmo. No shooting gallery sign yet:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psae6d05b0.jpg
USC Digital Library -- http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...d/25547/rec/60

The photo above was probably not taken after the fall of 1875, since Mr. Roth went bankrupt that August, as reported in the August 22 1875 LA Herald:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps82f90af5.jpg
Library of Congress -- http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=3

In this undated, southwest-facing photo we have the shooting gallery sign as well as C. A. Bonesteel's name instead of P. N. Roth. Under the IMPORTANT sign there's a street address of 47 Main:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psbc6c19fb.jpg
LAPL -- http://jpg1.lapl.org/spnb01/00007316.jpg

The CA State Library has another view of the above photo dated 1877: (http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...XCRB2CGCAU.jpg)

Anyway, this LA Herald advertisement shows Mr. Bonesteel was in place by March 31, 1876:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8ef39eda.jpg
Library of Congress -- http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=1

And there are a few other date clues from the photos. The IMPORTANT sign in the last photo above refers to a clothing store that was in operation by March 1876 (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...rRange&page=10) and defunct by May 2, 1878:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps81aefce9.jpg
Library of Congress -- http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=1

Across the street on the east side of Main, the former Bella Union Hotel, which had been renamed the Clarendon, became the St. Charles in January 1875 (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=1), but I couldn't find out when the three-story building immediately south of the St. Charles was built. In addition, there don't seem to be any newspaper pages from July 1876 to December 1877, and no city directories for 1876 or 1877, which are inconvenient gaps for this particular search.

We know for sure the shooting gallery was there in 1878, and likely into 1879. After that the trail runs cold, although by October 1880 Loiseau was running a saloon (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=1). Given the readily available evidence, and assuming the shooting gallery and its sign existed simultaneously, the shooting gallery could also have been there in 1877, and possibly as early as 1876. I didn't see any references to it or Loiseau in 1875, but the OCR search at the Library of Congress isn't perfect.

Was the shooting gallery sign illuminated? It seems unlikely; were there many glass signs back then, illuminated or not? They couldn't have been cheap. Wouldn't you have to get up on a ladder to turn the gas on and off? The vents/smoke stacks at the top do suggest illumination -- or perhaps they were bird houses? ;) Maybe the sign was designed to be illuminated, but was not in this case? Was the shooting gallery even open at night? Perhaps it was just a weird old sign. Something else we'll never know for sure I guess.

Finally, exactly where was the shooting gallery? Looking at the "Bonesteel" photo above showing 47 Main to compare, at first I thought the shooting gallery at 43 Main would have been in the Lafayette. But the street numbers ran the other way; i.e., larger to smaller going north (Did the street numbers radiate out from the Plaza back then? Did everyone know this but me?). How else do you explain these clips from the Jan 12, 1876 LA Herald?:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psbe31a047.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8466082e.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3fb387fe.jpg
Library of Congress -- http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=1

The Grand Central Hotel at 36-40 Main was north of the St. Charles. Both the St. Charles and the International boot store at 52 Main can be seen in er's photo; look for the big boot in the street in front of the store (under the left edge of the shooting gallery sign). Mr. Herdman has his office in the Downey Block at 79-1/2 Main, which can be seen in the c. 1874 photo at the end of the block south of the Lafayette Hotel, which has the 47 Main address.

# # #

LATE EDIT: After further review, I believe the next paragraph is incorrect; the ones after that are OK, though.

So P. Loiseau's shooting gallery at 43 Main was in -- or at the former site of -- the one-story, perhaps adobe buildings immediately north of the Lafayette Store in the c. 1874 photo. New High Street, which can be seen one block west of Main Street in that photo, is higher than Main Street. So 43 Main would have been a good spot for a shooting gallery in that -- theoretically, depending on the layout -- you could shoot into a high dirt embankment.


OK -- no fooling this time -- P. Loiseau's shooting gallery at 43 Main was somewhere in -- or perhaps behind? -- the building with the Lafayette Store, the small two-story building (with an outside staircase leading to a 2nd floor door) immediately north of the Lafayette Hotel:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psd57c8509.jpg]
USC Digital Library -- http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si...d/25547/rec/60

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4b987a9e.jpg
June 4, 1874 LA Herald @ Library of Congress

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psbc6c19fb.jpg
I should have figured it out from the photo above; since the IMPORTANT store was at 47 Main, with the DRUGS & MEDICINES store north of that at 45 Main, the smaller Lafayette Store building had to be 43 Main, where the 1879 LA City Directory says the shooting gallery was. The shape of those one-story buildings north of the Lafayette Store, which look vaguely like outdoor shooting ranges I've been to, combined with the high dirt embankment behind them, made me think the shooting gallery was there.

I also figured that the shooting gallery would be the only occupant of its building. But it would seem not; there was the Lafayette Store, and possibly other office space:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps30a95286.jpg
Nov 17, 1874 LA Herald @ Library of Congress

Flyingwedge Jul 31, 2013 4:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6214521)

This is one of my favorite buildings. Believe it or not, there are new structures on the roof that hide cell-phone antennas.
http://imageshack.us/a/img825/3930/pf36.jpg
http://la.curbed.com/

__

Gosh, it never occurred to me that the detail on the roof hid cell phone antennas. Thanks er!

Sonny☼LA Jul 31, 2013 6:30 AM

William Andrews Clark Memorial Library and (radioactive) Observatory
 
Wow this place is so wicked rippin' cool, I don't know where to start. And they love having you come by for a little tour or a little research if 17th and 18th century English Lit is your thing, provided you call first. I've searched the thread for mentions of this West Adams jewel and come up with naught.

To make a long story long, around 1860 Billy Clark Sr., for whom the library is named, quit teaching at Wesleyan to strike it rich in Montana, made more off his trading business which led to banking, which led to repossessing enough claims to become become one of the Copper Kings of Butte by 1880.

In a 1907 essay Mark Twain portrayed Clark as the very embodiment of Gilded Age excess and corruption:

"He is as rotten a human being as can be found anywhere under the flag; he is a shame to the American nation, and no one has helped to send him to the Senate who did not know that his proper place was the penitentiary, with a ball and chain on his legs. To my mind he is the most disgusting creature that the republic has produced since Tweed's time."
-Wikipedia

So that leads us to Junior, who moved the family to California sometime in the early teens. It sounds like he mostly concentrated on giving away dad's money as he's primarily known for founding the Los Angeles Philharmonic and funding the construction of the Hollywood Bowl. The chronology of the West Adams property at this point gets hazy, at least for me with my limited research abilities. There is a Popular Science article from 1919 detailing the observatory so it was built by then. It does not mention the house and only describes reflecting pools which may or may not be related to the lawns surrounding the library today. Being there, it feels right that they should be filled with water. The library was designed by Robert D. Farquhar and completed in 1926, in the backyard of the main house which stood on the corner of Adams and Cimarron, according to the library's website. I can't find an image of that original house but I seem to remember hearing when I visited that it was removed by the UCLA, possibly due to structural deficiencies. I found these LAPL photos after my visit so didn't know to ask about the observatory's fate.

As shown in the following undated images, the observatory, "gate house" and library all once stood in fairly close proximity, clustered almost entirely on the east end of the property. I can imagine that these were taken from the back of the main house but have no idea. The other images on LAPL are all from the 70's and show the current configuration of the property with the gate house moved to the other side of the block, at the corner of Cimarron and 25th St.

Once he took up residence in that swank mausoleum at Hollywood Forever, UCLA had bequeathed all over them the entire 13,000 volume collection, the square-block property and all buildings, and $1.5 million endowment just for good measure (not without some dismay from the much closer USC, I imagine). I haven't found much more history of it since then, though this bit is interesting - from Barton Phelps & Associates, the architectural firm hired to add on support facilities around 1990.

"By then Clark had demolished ten neighboring houses, relocated the brick servants' quarters, and extended an old brick wall around the block. For sixty years the library drifted in an unfinished landscape gradually emptied of Clark's house, gardens, and observatory."

An undated photo of the observatory, gate house and library.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psb63a5584.jpg
LAPL

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psf0698f49.jpg
LAPL

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...pseb5750c2.jpg
Popular Science, December 1919

The site today:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psde4bd7a3.jpg
Google Maps

Some of the interesting bits in the PopSci article:

"Probably nowhere else in the world is there another private observatory like that built by William A. Clark, Jr., son of former United States Senator Clark, on the beautiful grounds of his home in Los Angeles.

"Overlooking the hedged lawns and the pools where waterlilies cast their reflections, rises the observatory tower, sixty feet high, and built of of brick with its dome made entirely of copper.

"..among all the treasures in the tower, none are more marvelous to the visitor than the star maps which are the invention of its creator...to make his stars, Dr. Baumgardt uses radium bromide...this powder is sprinkled on sheet celluloid which has been painted with ether...:righton:

"The visitor has no inkling of a vault chamber below the first floor until a trap door is raised and a tiny staircase leading downward is revealed."

And a little context:

William Andrews Clark Junior at a ballgame in 1926, the year the library was completed.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psc678ba5f.jpg
LAPL

Dear Old Dad, library namesake.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...ps1178fb15.jpg
Wikipedia

A graduation ceremony of some sort, with each young woman wearing a sash with the name of a different city - I can only make out Los Angeles and New York City.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...ps93ad1e33.jpg
LAPL

And some recent photos I took during my visit:

Gate House.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5342/9...55a47347_o.jpg
My Flickr

One of two identical reading rooms.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2879/9...bd1a2a0b_o.jpg
My Flickr

Double-walled, offset windows. Is this a light-diffusion method, to keep direct light off the shelves, maybe?
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2884/9...2310a7fa_o.jpg
My Flickr

Your average ceiling.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/9...a1e8a4e0_o.jpg
My Flickr

Of The Wilde Bore
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3677/9...56481cd2_o.jpg
My Flickr

The environs.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3715/9...80e15aaa_o.jpg
My Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2833/9...9282aacb_o.jpg
My Flickr

srk1941 Jul 31, 2013 3:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonny☼LA (Post 6216295)
Wow this place is so wicked rippin' cool, I don't know where to start. And they love having you come by for a little tour or a little research if 17th and 18th century English Lit is your thing, provided you call first. I've searched the thread for mentions of this West Adams jewel and come up with naught.

To make a long story long, around 1860 Billy Clark Sr., for whom the library is named, quit teaching at Wesleyan to strike it rich in Montana, made more off his trading business which led to banking, which led to repossessing enough claims to become become one of the Copper Kings of Butte by 1880.

In a 1907 essay Mark Twain portrayed Clark as the very embodiment of Gilded Age excess and corruption:

"He is as rotten a human being as can be found anywhere under the flag; he is a shame to the American nation, and no one has helped to send him to the Senate who did not know that his proper place was the penitentiary, with a ball and chain on his legs. To my mind he is the most disgusting creature that the republic has produced since Tweed's time."
-Wikipedia

So that leads us to Junior, who moved the family to California sometime in the early teens. It sounds like he mostly concentrated on giving away dad's money as he's primarily known for founding the Los Angeles Philharmonic and funding the construction of the Hollywood Bowl. The chronology of the West Adams property at this point gets hazy, at least for me with my limited research abilities. There is a Popular Science article from 1919 detailing the observatory so it was built by then. It does not mention the house and only describes reflecting pools which may or may not be related to the lawns surrounding the library today. Being there, it feels right that they should be filled with water. The library was designed by Robert D. Farquhar and completed in 1926, in the backyard of the main house which stood on the corner of Adams and Cimarron, according to the library's website. I can't find an image of that original house but I seem to remember hearing when I visited that it was removed by the UCLA, possibly due to structural deficiencies. I found these LAPL photos after my visit so didn't know to ask about the observatory's fate.

As shown in the following undated images, the observatory, "gate house" and library all once stood in fairly close proximity, clustered almost entirely on the east end of the property. I can imagine that these were taken from the back of the main house but have no idea. The other images on LAPL are all from the 70's and show the current configuration of the property with the gate house moved to the other side of the block, at the corner of Cimarron and 25th St.

Once he took up residence in that swank mausoleum at Hollywood Forever, UCLA had bequeathed all over them the entire 13,000 volume collection, the square-block property and all buildings, and $1.5 million endowment just for good measure (not without some dismay from the much closer USC, I imagine). I haven't found much more history of it since then, though this bit is interesting - from Barton Phelps & Associates, the architectural firm hired to add on support facilities around 1990.

"By then Clark had demolished ten neighboring houses, relocated the brick servants' quarters, and extended an old brick wall around the block. For sixty years the library drifted in an unfinished landscape gradually emptied of Clark's house, gardens, and observatory."

An undated photo of the observatory, gate house and library.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psb63a5584.jpg
LAPL

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psf0698f49.jpg
LAPL

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...pseb5750c2.jpg
Popular Science, December 1919

The site today:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psde4bd7a3.jpg
Google Maps

Some of the interesting bits in the PopSci article:

"Probably nowhere else in the world is there another private observatory like that built by William A. Clark, Jr., son of former United States Senator Clark, on the beautiful grounds of his home in Los Angeles.

"Overlooking the hedged lawns and the pools where waterlilies cast their reflections, rises the observatory tower, sixty feet high, and built of of brick with its dome made entirely of copper.

"..among all the treasures in the tower, none are more marvelous to the visitor than the star maps which are the invention of its creator...to make his stars, Dr. Baumgardt uses radium bromide...this powder is sprinkled on sheet celluloid which has been painted with ether...:righton:

"The visitor has no inkling of a vault chamber below the first floor until a trap door is raised and a tiny staircase leading downward is revealed."

And a little context:

William Andrews Clark Junior at a ballgame in 1926, the year the library was completed.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psc678ba5f.jpg
LAPL

Dear Old Dad, library namesake.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...ps1178fb15.jpg
Wikipedia

A graduation ceremony of some sort, with each young woman wearing a sash with the name of a different city - I can only make out Los Angeles and New York City.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...ps93ad1e33.jpg
LAPL

And some recent photos I took during my visit:

Gate House.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5342/9...55a47347_o.jpg
My Flickr

One of two identical reading rooms.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2879/9...bd1a2a0b_o.jpg
My Flickr

Double-walled, offset windows. Is this a light-diffusion method, to keep direct light off the shelves, maybe?
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2884/9...2310a7fa_o.jpg
My Flickr

Your average ceiling.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/9...a1e8a4e0_o.jpg
My Flickr

Of The Wilde Bore
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3677/9...56481cd2_o.jpg
My Flickr

The environs.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3715/9...80e15aaa_o.jpg
My Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2833/9...9282aacb_o.jpg
My Flickr

Wonderful pictures! I have been digging around a bit into the history of the site, mostly doing research on landscape architect/planner Wilbur David Cook, Jr.

In 1910, William Clark, Jr. bought an existing 1906 house (for $90,000) designed by Joseph Blick. Clark redid the interiors of the house, and hired Wilbur D. Cook to create a landscape on the site of several adjacent lots which he had acquired. Ten years later, he and Farquhar did the Clark Library and the observation tower on that parcel that Cook had designed, and he began acquiring the rest of the block to the north of that parcel, as you see here in the Farquhar site plan.

http://clarklibrary.files.wordpress....small_1589.jpg

About ten years after that, landscape architect Ralph D. Cornell designed the garden in that north side of the parcel.

By 1948, that brick gatehouse was in its current location, so I can't account for the way it is placed in that wonderful undated photo. But it looks like the original 1906 residence was demolished between 1972 and 1980.

3940dxer Jul 31, 2013 3:26 PM

I just wanted to add another quick "hello" and thank all the contributors here. Hundreds of pages have been added since I took a breather last year, and getting caught up again has been great fun. In the past month you've hardly seen me post here but believe me, I'm here every day, reading and enjoying the new material, and noting ideas for L.A. photo safaris and new topics here. Also, I think I can offer a few answers and corrections to some posts here, given a little more time to power through the thread and organize my thoughts.

I've enjoyed many of the recent posts about Hollywood and the Canyons, along with the Zamboanga South Sea Cafe And Nite Club, The Dresden Room, and The El Cid. (The latter two are still around of course, and I visited both with my wife recently. The Dresden didn't do much for me but El Cid was great.)

I am sad to see how many photos have vanished, even from relatively recent posts. I wish that more contributors would take the additional step of hosting images on their own servers, or on 3rd party sites, to give their images a little more longevity. Images and articles linked from ebay, newspapers, and blogs rarely last, as someone else mentioned here. I wonder if a "sticky" could be added to Page 1 to encourage this?

Of course my biggest fear is that the thread might go away entirely someday. Last year I copied and archived everything, up to page 383, but now that is less than half the content here! As I have time, I'll try to save everything from 384 forward.

Thanks again everyone, for all the great new material. This thread remains the greatest resource in the world for all things historic L. A. e-r, you really started something!

BifRayRock Jul 31, 2013 4:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 6216190)
Oh, there was a real shooting gallery there all right:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psb86c5ee6.jpg
1879 LA City Directory @ Fold3.com

April 7, 1878 LA Herald:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psf274d229.jpg
Library of Congress -- http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=1

October 4, 1878 LA Herald:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7ffce320.jpg
Library of Congress -- http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...arRange&page=5

So P. Loiseau's shooting gallery at 43 Main was in -- or at the former site of -- the one-story, perhaps adobe buildings immediately north of the Lafayette Store in the c. 1874 photo. New High Street, which can be seen one block west of Main Street in that photo, is higher than Main Street. So 43 Main would have been a good spot for a shooting gallery in that -- theoretically, depending on the layout -- you could shoot into a high dirt embankment.







http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psbc6c19fb.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img21/70/4amx.jpg



Thank you for your efforts.:worship: Your interesting exposition provokes even more questions! (Just wish I had the time to think about these things half-intelligently!)

The newspaper clipping gives the impression that the gallery was mostly an acceptable "upscale" recreational pursuit for LA's gilded youth. Today's equivalent of a Pinball arcade, bowling alley or "the mall." After all, it was Main Street across from the St. Charles! There is no indication whether the gallery also made revenue from food, spirits, or games of chance, leaving me to wonder whether it wasn't a cover for something else or served several purposes that were obvious but unmentioned. (I am ignorant or forgetful on the subject of when LA Hotels and Bars ceased open gambling operations, or the nature of any prohibition against minors or ladies from gaming or alcohol service areas. Limited research suggests ordinances prohibiting faro and fantan gambling - directed mostly toward establishments in Chinatown were enacted in or around 1904 http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d...19040119.2.96#) Nevertheless, I am left wondering if the gallery was mostly a Main Street-novelty that might have been affiliated with other businesses. ;);) Would it have been surprising for many St. Charles patrons to carry (or have access to) side arms? Well-heeled youths could have easily had their own private galleries, except perhaps, with the wrong chaperones? In 1878, surely LA had "dark alleys" and a "seedy underbelly?" :hell:

I noticed somewhere, possibly in a publication about LA's Hotels, another observation concerning the same sign: that it was a "reminder that Los Angeles was a Western frontier town." I'm guessing that in 1878 there was no escaping LA's frontier character, but a shooting gallery - with a standalone sign - would seem to have lent the place a sense of civility, as opposed to a potential free-for-all where folks set their sights virtually anywhere. However, unless the gallery was in a basement, it might have created quite a nuisance in the middle of town - and this would have been most uncivilized. (How close was the nearest church?) Wonder whether shooting galleries were commonplace in the West, where most communities had plenty of wide-open unimproved space.

Sign Illumination? The sign was extremely wide, presumably for a reason. (I, too, wondered what animals could be housed there, but it does not resemble a cage and could get warm during the day. The first ant farm?) Considering that street lighting was practically non-existent, or in its infancy, maybe candles or oil provided adequate lighting. It is also likely that illumination was an unnecessary advertising accessory in what was still a small town. Except for the darkest night, the sign would have been hard to miss - even unlit. Again, look at the height of the sign compared to the man standing near it. That's either a very small man or a very big sign. In the end this may have been nothing more than a coyote-taming entrepreneur proclaiming his presence and legitimacy with the biggest brightest sign on the block. A frontier town publicity stunt? "Look, Butch has a new neon." :poke:


(Four issues were left unaddressed: What happened to the coyote? Who were the gilded youth? How many were there? Where was the Moscow Inn?) :tongue4:


PS: Notice what seems to be a utility pole to the left of the St. Charles Hotel. Telegraph? Stadium lighting without the stadium, lighting, or electricity? Regarding the observation about this being a "frontier town" because of the shooting gallery sign, no reminder is necessary given what seems to be a stage coach in front of other horse drawn carriages/wagons on unpaved road. Right out of Knotts Berry Farm and Corriganville. And, if I had seen the sign in either place, but for this discussion, I still might wonder if it weren't historically out of place.




jg6544 Jul 31, 2013 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 6216089)
Specifically, Coptic Catholic. Funny, because a few streets away, a friend of mine (with whom I've lost touch) grew up in this neighborhood, though by the time I became friends with him, he was living somewhere else. He seems to be embarrassed that he grew up in this neighborhood.

And now, a random photo of 1950s Los Ángeles freeway traffic!
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics43/00041098.jpg
LAPL

Notice the mini-guardrails at the base of the one lamp post. And how closely-spaced the road stripes seem to be compared with today.

'56 or later, looking at the cars. Just proves the futility of trying to keep up with traffic by building more freeways. You just move the traffic jams from the surface streets to the freeways. The only effective way to reduce traffic is by providing an alternative to the private car and incentivizing people to use it.

Sonny☼LA Jul 31, 2013 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srk1941 (Post 6216553)
Wonderful pictures! I have been digging around a bit into the history of the site, mostly doing research on landscape architect/planner Wilbur David Cook, Jr.

In 1910, William Clark, Jr. bought an existing 1906 house (for $90,000) designed by Joseph Blick. Clark redid the interiors of the house, and hired Wilbur D. Cook to create a landscape on the site of several adjacent lots which he had acquired. Ten years later, he and Farquhar did the Clark Library and the observation tower on that parcel that Cook had designed, and he began acquiring the rest of the block to the north of that parcel, as you see here in the Farquhar site plan.

http://clarklibrary.files.wordpress....small_1589.jpg

About ten years after that, landscape architect Ralph D. Cornell designed the garden in that north side of the parcel.

By 1948, that brick gatehouse was in its current location, so I can't account for the way it is placed in that wonderful undated photo. But it looks like the original 1906 residence was demolished between 1972 and 1980.

Too cool, '41! Your diagram seems to show the location of the observatory, too - interesting. Now I wan to go back and check out the foundation, visible in the Google Maps image. Wonder if the fountain on the eastern lawn was ever completed - didn't see any evidence of that. Also, the narrow building and courtyard along Adams aren't on the plan and it does feel like an afterthought - a bit jammed in there. Fun to imagine that they might be remains of the old house or gardens that were gradually demolished.

srk1941 Jul 31, 2013 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonny☼LA (Post 6217051)
Too cool, '41! Your diagram seems to show the location of the observatory, too - interesting. Now I wan to go back and check out the foundation, visible in the Google Maps image. Wonder if the fountain on the eastern lawn was ever completed - didn't see any evidence of that. Also, the narrow building and courtyard along Adams aren't on the plan and it does feel like an afterthought - a bit jammed in there. Fun to imagine that they might be remains of the old house or gardens that were gradually demolished.

The fountain isn't visible in a 1948 aerial, so I believe that part of the design wasn't completely fulfilled. It looks like there may have been a smaller water feature of some kind at the very end of the arc. Also, by 1948 it appears that the observatory has been replaced by a tree. That building and courtyard at the corner of Adams and Cimarron was the original house, which was still there in 1972, but the site of a parking lot by 1980.

BifRayRock Aug 1, 2013 5:21 AM





Southwest Corner of Wilshire and Westmoreland sold! Approx 3100 Wilshire Blvd? Thought I had seen a photo of the residence that once sat here? (GW will it be covered in your terrific site? http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogspot.com/

March 30, 1908 LA Herald
http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/imageser...l&ext=jpg&key=
http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/imageser...l&ext=jpg&key=http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/imageser...l&ext=jpg&key=


The Emma Summers Home, circa 1911 was eventually replaced by Bullocks Wilshire in '29. Would have been on the Southeast corner of Wilshire and Westmoreland - and across the street from the property mentioned in the article.http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FM1B_WlC-o...25282%2529.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FM1B_WlC-o...25282%2529.jpg



Possible glimpse of residence built on SW corner of Wilshire and Westmoreland - to the far right of these photos ???

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...HLXL6BRT1K.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...HLXL6BRT1K.jpg

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...R2TRQFU1PP.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...R2TRQFU1PP.jpg



The property to the right of the street lamp
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...K8EM8F4PFT.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...K8EM8F4PFT.jpg




GaylordWilshire Aug 1, 2013 2:14 PM

:previous:


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z...withcredit.jpg

The Reuben Shettler house was at the southwest corner of Wilshire and Westmoreland, addressed 3100 Wilshire:
http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogs...e-see-our.html


The Albert R. Maines/Emma Summers house was across Westmoreland to the east of 3100, facing Wilshire Place--its address was 655 Wilshire Place. As you say, Bullock's-Wilshire replaced it:
http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogs...ire-place.html


Quote:

Originally Posted by BifRayRock (Post 6217611)


The Shettler house would be behind the trees closest to the right of the top photo--the building at far right is toward the southeast corner of Wilshire and Vermont on the Busch property:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b...2520AM.bmp.jpgUSCDL

You can see the Seaboard Bank sign in the second shot you posted. The gambrel-roofed house to the far right in the second shot is the Neustadt/Monnette/Bain house at 3101 Wilshire:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b...werswebadr.jpg

Its full story is here: http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogs...e-see-our.html


The peak-roofed housed between the Seaboard building and 3101 is 3143 Wilshire:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2...thblogaddr.jpg

Its full story is here:
http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogs...e-see-our.html

BifRayRock Aug 1, 2013 2:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6217851)
:previous:


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z...withcredit.jpg

The Reuben Shettler house was at the southwest corner of Wilshire and Westmoreland, addressed 3100 Wilshire:
http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogs...e-see-our.html


The Albert R. Maines/Emma Summers house was across Westmoreland to the east of 3100, facing Wilshire Place--its address was 655 Wilshire Place. As you say, Bullock's-Wilshire replaced it:
http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogs...ire-place.html





The Shettler house would be behind the trees closest to the right of the top photo--the building at far right is toward the southeast corner of Wilshire and Vermont on the Busch property:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b...2520AM.bmp.jpgUSCDL

You can see the Seaboard Bank sign in the second shot you posted. The gambrel-roofed house to the far right in the second shot is the Neustadt/Monnette/Bain house at 3101 Wilshire:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b...werswebadr.jpg

Its full story is here: http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogs...e-see-our.html


The peak-roofed housed between the Seaboard building and 3101 is 3143 Wilshire:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2...thblogaddr.jpg

Its full story is here:
http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogs...e-see-our.html





Many thanks for filling in the blanks.

Possibly, the image I remembered but couldn't locate. May be a better version out there.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/phot...4_shettler.jpghttp://latimesblogs.latimes.com/phot...4_shettler.jpg LATimes blurb here > http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thed...e-14-1908.html


ethereal_reality Aug 1, 2013 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3940dxer (Post 6216561)
Of course my biggest fear is that the thread might go away entirely someday. Last year I copied and archived everything, up to page 383, but now that is less than half the content here! As I have time, I'll try to save everything from 384 forward.

You're a godsend 3940dxer!
(I still haven't figured out how to save the pages)
__


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