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WS1911 Apr 16, 2013 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6092533)
Well, you've got Aliso Street marked as Ferguson Alley. Ferguson Alley runs off of Los Angeles Street directly across from the fire station at the head of Calle de los Negroes. And where is the Simpson Building in this shot. I love this pic, it's been one of my all time favorites but I'm not familiar with the Simpson Building.

Opps! It's a good thing I said I was hopefully right with the street names. I've fixed the image in my original post, but can't do anything about the image in your reply. The reason I put "later Sunset" under Marchessault is that my 1949 Thomas Guide makes it look like a continuation of Sunset. It's not labeled "Marchessault" at all. In the original post by westcork on the Simpson Building reconstruction, the very last photo from 1959 shows what looks like "Sunset Blvd."on the street sign on the south side of the building.

I just noticed tovangar2's comment on this also. Was it Sunset Blvd. from Main to Olvera St., then Marchessault from Olvera to Los Angeles St.? I'm confused.

http://dbase1.lapl.org/images/el_pue...27-SB-0022.jpg
LAPL

WS1911 Apr 16, 2013 1:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6092532)

It looks like Friedman Bag Company. Here is an L. A. Times article.

tovangar2 Apr 16, 2013 1:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6092564)
Thanks, who was 'Simpson'? Earlier this was the location of the court building. I've spent a lot of hours looking at this image. I suspected maybe it was on the west side of Olvera Street (by process of elimination, truly, I knew virtually every other building in the pic).

I don't know who Simpson was http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=14028

What "court building"?

Here's a nice 1882 shot of the future site of the Simpson Building. I'm a little confused as to who originally built this adobe. Sepulveda or Downey? Somebody help me:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I...142%2520PM.jpg
http://waterandpower.org/museum/Earl...s)_Page_1.html

There's an interactive 1850 map of LA here:
http://imgzoom.cdlib.org/Fullscreen....nd=calisphere#

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-p...303%2520PM.jpg

Sunset only ran NW from the Plaza. In that area it used to be called Church St and then Bread St. I don't know what Marchessault was called before, probably nothing. The Plaza was just the Plaza.

tovangar2 Apr 16, 2013 2:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WS1911 (Post 6092667)
It looks like Friedman Bag Company. Here is an L. A. Times article.

Thanks so much. Now I wonder who was in that building before. It looks much older than the 20s when Friedman started.

On the 1909 map the bag company building is unmarked:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c...227%2520PM.jpg
http://www.bigmapblog.com/2011/birds...f-los-angeles/

MichaelRyerson Apr 16, 2013 2:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6092675)
I don't know who Simpson was. What "court building"?

The U.S. Court



http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7275/7...c7241753_o.jpg
PlazaMap3

Map of the old portion of the city surrounding the plaza, showing the old plaza church, public square, the first gas plant and adode buildings, Los Angeles city, March 12th, 1873 / A.G. Ruxton, surveyor.

Library of Congress

tovangar2 Apr 16, 2013 3:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6092733)
The U.S. Court

Thanks MR. The stuff I've forgotten is now greater than the stuff I know.

Did "Seguro" build this in 1834? Something else I need to Google. (I have seen it labeled as both the Sepulveda Adobe and Downey House, which I guess it was in turn.)

Olvera used to hear County Court cases in his adobe. The Plaza really was the civic center.

P.S.

"John G. Downey's Adobe (Townhouse)
North of Marchessault Street between Olvera Street and Bath Street (later North Main Street), Los Angeles. It faced the plaza on the north side. It was a large "L" shaped adobe that was owned by Pedro Seguro and used as a gambling house in the 1840s. Monte was the game of choice here. John G. Downey, a druggist, landowner, and one time Governor of California owned the adobe. Later, an Englishman, John Jones acquired the adobe. The Jones-Simpson family owned it for years. It was completed shrouded by trees."


http://www.laokay.com/Adobe-Sites-in...California.htm

And here it is in ca 1869 (center left), "completely shrouded by trees":
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-z...14036%2BPM.jpg
http://waterandpower.org/museum/Earl..._(Page_1).html

"Doria Deighton-Jones [John's wife] ordered the construction of the Jones and the Simpson-Jones buildings on the site of the family's adobe house on Olvera Street, which was torn down when Bath Street was widened and made an extension of Main Street. The former structure, built in [1844 by Pedro Seguro], was originally divided into five shops, housing at different times a cigar store, shooting gallery, machine shop, plumbing and tin shops and blacksmitheries. After Olvera Street became a Mexico-themed shopping and restaurant row in 1930, the main entryway was switched to the Olvera side—the entrance to the El Luz del Día restaurant.
The Simpson-Jones Building, constructed in 1894, has been altered to resemble a Mexican bank from "around 1960." The name honors the Joneses' daughter, Constance Jones Simpson, who inherited the property in 1908."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jo...Deighton-Jones

ProphetM Apr 16, 2013 3:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 4791713)

Since Tovangar2 brought this photo back up...
Last October I went up to the City Hall observation deck with my kids and my Dad, and as it happens I took a shot in that direction. Here's a crop covering a little more area than the old pic:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e...1-DSC03816.JPG

Unfortunately it was not one of the shots I took with the big lens, but the blue & white Friedman Bag Company buildings are still very apparent.

westcork Apr 16, 2013 4:07 AM

Here are a few rare shots of the far side of the plaza. Still no court and still no Simpson building

The Pico House, sometimes called "Old Pico House", built by Pio Pico in 1869-70. Seen here in the distance from Fort Hill, and fronting on the Plaza and Main Street. The building is on the right side of the picture and only the front can be seen, but there do not appear to be any buildings ajacent to it.
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics16/00007542.jpg
LAPL

Plaza Church prior to 1869, showing fence around the entrance. [Note on photo: Father Adams says, "Where Buena Vista is now open, north on the hill stood a chapel from 1784 to 1812, where a friar from San Gabriel Mission said mass every Sunday and holidays." The fence around the Plaza was built by the owner of the reservoir (seen at extreme right of the photo). Later it was planted with trees and otherwise much improved.
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics26/00032727.jpg
LAPL


Plaza Farmer's Market - I am pretty sure this is facing the Marchessault direction too.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5144/...0c05b0f8_o.jpg
USC Via GSJansen

tovangar2 Apr 16, 2013 4:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProphetM (Post 6092777)
Unfortunately it was not one of the shots I took with the big lens, but the blue & white Friedman Bag Company buildings are still very apparent.



Thank you PM so much.

tovangar2 Apr 16, 2013 4:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcork (Post 6092822)
Here are a few rare shots of the far side of the plaza. Still no court and still no Simpson building

The Pico House, sometimes called "Old Pico House", built by Pio Pico in 1869-70. Seen here in the distance from Fort Hill, and fronting on the Plaza and Main Street. The building is on the right side of the picture and only the front can be seen, but there do not appear to be any buildings ajacent to it.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U...14612%2BPM.jpg
LAPL

Plaza Church prior to 1869, showing fence around the entrance. [Note on photo: Father Adams says, "Where Buena Vista is now open, north on the hill stood a chapel from 1784 to 1812, where a friar from San Gabriel Mission said mass every Sunday and holidays." The fence around the Plaza was built by the owner of the reservoir (seen at extreme right of the photo). Later it was planted with trees and otherwise much improved.
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics26/00032727.jpg
LAPL


Plaza Farmer's Market - I am pretty sure this is facing the Marchessault direction too.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5144/...0c05b0f8_o.jpg
USC Via GSJansen

Pico House is on the south side of the Plaza. The top photo shows the west side of the hotel. The adobe in question is hidden by trees on the extreme left. The Olvera adobe is approximately in the center of the photo.

The Suguro/FPF Temple/Downey/Jones "Courthouse" adobe is in the second two pix. In the last one there's a sign that says, something..."Tilling" (?) on the roof of this same adobe, now with many fewer trees. One can usually find this adobe in old photos by looking for the distinctive scalloped, picket fence around the front.

P.S.

Yet more on the Simpson-Jones building: http://www.ci.la.ca.us/ELP/elpsshis4.htm

MichaelRyerson Apr 16, 2013 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6092757)
Thanks MR. The stuff I've forgotten is now greater than the stuff I know.

Did "Seguro" build this in 1834? Something else I need to Google. (I have seen it labeled as both the Sepulveda Adobe and Downey House, which I guess it was in turn.)

Olvera used to hear County Court cases in his adobe. The Plaza really was the civic center.


Yes, Seguro but I read '1844' not '34. I really trust the Ruxton map. I've never caught him in error. I don't remember the Downey house being connected to Sepulveda. I think Sepulveda was across the street to the west. Although, Sepulveda certainly shows up all over the Plaza area. Also if you look closely you'll see the 'shrouded in trees' is how Ruxton depicts the house with the trees planted all along the south facing arcade.

MichaelRyerson Apr 16, 2013 3:19 PM

Have we seen this image before?
 
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8119/8...e5423846_o.png
La Golondrina before the paint brushes and cafe tables, ca.1928


Misidentified in the archives as "View of Marchessault Street in Los Angeles's Chinatown, looking west towards City Hall, November 1933" We know you couldn't have a view of City Hall looking west on Marchessault Street. This is Olvera Street looking south and judging from the decrepit condition of the street much earlier than 1933, perhaps 1927-8. We can pick out the Pelanconi House which would become the La Golondrina café in 1930 here on the right before the paint brushes and outside seating. The next two-story brick house is the back of the Sepulveda house which numbers on Main Street (Thanks and a shout out to ethereal_reality). Up the street on the right is the back of the Simpson building which faces the Plaza. Great early shot of this iconic street.

USC digital archive/Dick Whittington Photography Collection, 1924-1987

ethereal_reality Apr 16, 2013 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6092995)
Yes, Seguro but I read '1844' not '34. I really trust the Ruxton map. I've never caught him in error. I don't remember the Downey house being connected to Sepulveda. I think Sepulveda was across the street to the west. Although, Sepulveda certainly shows up all over the Plaza area. Also if you look closely you'll see the 'shrouded in trees' is how Ruxton depicts the house with the trees planted all along the south facing arcade.


The Sepulveda House (built 1887) in the 1920s. 'Italian Sausage Factory'

http://imageshack.us/a/img208/1008/a...ouse1920ss.jpg
unknown




Years later, a view along north Main Street. (late 1950s..early 1960s?)

http://imageshack.us/a/img201/1217/a...uildingdow.jpg
http://photos.lapl.org/carlweb/jsp/p...ch_pageADV.jsp




http://imageshack.us/a/img18/1217/aa...uildingdow.jpg
http://photos.lapl.org/carlweb/jsp/p...ch_pageADV.jsp






circa 1978.
http://imageshack.us/a/img825/7813/a...edain1978a.jpg
unknown









The Sepulveda House today. :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img837/6438/a...ousetodayr.jpg
Robert Garcias http://www.cityprojectca.org/




Olvera street in the back
http://imageshack.us/a/img694/8278/a...ousegsvaer.jpg
google earth


http://imageshack.us/a/img825/4374/a...ahouseinfo.jpg
http://elpueblo.lacity.org/

fascinating history: I am amazed the building has 22 rooms, I didn't realized it was so large. I'm also trying to visualize the 'breezeway' that separates the front businesses from the private quarters in the back.

__

ethereal_reality Apr 16, 2013 8:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6093154)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8119/8...e5423846_o.png
La Golondrina before the paint brushes and cafe tables, ca.1928


Misidentified in the archives as "View of Marchessault Street in Los Angeles's Chinatown, looking west towards City Hall, November 1933" We know you couldn't have a view of City Hall looking west on Marchessault Street. This is Olvera Street looking south and judging from the decrepit condition of the street much earlier than 1933, perhaps 1927-8. We can pick out the Pelanconi House which would become the La Golondrina café in 1930 here on the right before the paint brushes and outside seating. Up the street on the right is the back of the Simpson building which faces the Plaza. Great early shot of this iconic street.

USC digital archive/Dick Whittington Photography Collection, 1924-1987


Hi MR; the building in the center is the rear of the Sepulveda House.


Here's the same view from the opposite direction.
http://imageshack.us/a/img35/3733/aa...lockandpel.jpg
http://www.lapl.org/




and today
http://imageshack.us/a/img802/1620/aabbesep1.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8348059...57627184161081
__

MichaelRyerson Apr 16, 2013 9:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6093618)
MR, the building in the center is the back of the Sepulveda House.


Here's the same view from the opposite direction.
http://imageshack.us/a/img35/3733/aa...lockandpel.jpg
http://www.lapl.org/
__

Yes it is, good catch. I should have gotten that in my caption. Going to my photo-stream now to include it (with attribution of course).

ethereal_reality Apr 16, 2013 10:03 PM

When I first saw these two postcards as thumbnails on ebay I thought I had found photographs of the elusive Monkey Island.
I was wrong :(

http://imageshack.us/a/img805/525/aabmonkeydisa.jpg
ebay






http://imageshack.us/a/img823/3048/aabmonkey2.jpg
ebay

__

MichaelRyerson Apr 16, 2013 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6093704)
When I saw this as a thumbnail on ebay I thought I had found a photograph of the elusive Monkey Island. -I was wrong. :(

http://imageshack.us/a/img805/525/aabmonkeydisa.jpg
ebay
__

I have to admit, I still look for it.

ethereal_reality Apr 16, 2013 10:56 PM

:previous: It's 'noirish Los Angeles's Holy Grail. ;) (along with that unidentified streamline-modern building. you know the one)

Albany NY Apr 17, 2013 1:01 AM

[B]Location of Monkey Island????[/B]
 
The exact location of Monkey Island always seems to elude us, but I found something interesting on laist.com. They have posted a flyer for Monkey Island (date unknown) that shows the address as 3300 Cahuenga Blvd.
http://imageshack.us/a/img51/3518/mi...slandflyer.jpg
laist.com

Additionally, HistoricAerials.com has aerial shots of that address from 1948 and 1954, both of which seem to show the plastic "mountain" at Monkey Island (though the park may have been long-since closed by then).

1948
http://imageshack.us/a/img803/2041/1948e.jpg
historicaerials.com

1954
http://imageshack.us/a/img90/2854/1954v.jpg
historicaerials.com

And finally, by 1972, all traces of Monkey Island seem to be gone. A small park is located there now.
http://imageshack.us/a/img845/1200/1972z.jpg
historicaerials.com

So....does this finally end the mystery, or are we still looking for the monkeys?

tovangar2 Apr 17, 2013 2:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6092995)
Yes, Seguro but I read '1844' not '34. I really trust the Ruxton map. I've never caught him in error. I don't remember the Downey house being connected to Sepulveda. I think Sepulveda was across the street to the west. Although, Sepulveda certainly shows up all over the Plaza area. Also if you look closely you'll see the 'shrouded in trees' is how Ruxton depicts the house with the trees planted all along the south facing arcade.

Thanks. The "1834" was just a typo. I added a P.S. to that post: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=14028

I may have just been confused about Sepulveda b/c of the two Sepulveda adobes to the east on the other side of Wine/Olvera St.

Thanks e_r too for all the pix of Sepulveda House.



Albany NY: I'm not looking for monkeys. "Monkey bit me. Quit."


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