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Flyingwedge Jan 5, 2018 11:56 PM

:previous: Here's a new link to last photo in t2's post above. The photo is awkwardly titled, "Office of Governor Pio Pico, last California capital of Mexico"

The Islandora/UCLA link only works during roughly business hours in the Pacific Time Zone, and I don't know why that is.

ethereal_reality Jan 6, 2018 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odinthor
property including the mission’s decaying old mill, which Kewen converted into a residence

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2
Which "old mill"? The old, old mill or the newer old mill?

This old mill?

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/llYmNB.jpg
california state library

written on photo: The Old San Gabriel Mill. Cal State description:"two-story adobe building surrounded by vegetation, clothes on line at right"

(clothes on the line = residence)

Bingo!
__

ScottyB Jan 6, 2018 12:13 AM

mystery adobe
 
Does anyone know where this "disheveled" adobe was located (description per USCDL)?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4682/...b0fbcfe6_b.jpg

Looks like the street sign could say 'MAIN ST."

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4692/...3697b9ec_b.jpg

tovangar2 Jan 6, 2018 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 8037930)

Yes, that one. After living there 20 years, the Kewens defaulted on the mortgage and it was repossessed. I was a little confused at first b/c odinthor's source said the mill was in north San Gabriel, but it is actually in southern San Marino. The borders have been redrawn many times; confusion is easy.

The Kewens added French doors and a portico.

Lots of great photos of the mill building here and one of Kewen:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/i9...k=w450-h436-no
Edward J.C. Kewen (1825 – 1879)

And a clear diagram of how it worked...or didn't work. It was only in operation for 7 years (1816-1823). The design left the newly-milled flour damp:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/q0...G=w956-h623-no




.......................................................



Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 8037919)
The photo is awkwardly titled, "Office of Governor Pio Pico, last California capital of Mexico"

Yes, that title, repeated many times on the web, was the subject of my post on the building. I'm pretty sure it was never the capital of California...or Pio Pico's office.

CityBoyDoug Jan 6, 2018 3:00 AM

I used to live about one & a quarter mile from Lacy Park in San Marino. It was a park where there was a place for local kids to have a birthday Party, a community summer concert, a wedding or the occasional exotic car show.

Driving by Lacy Park a few times I would look down on the park but I never knew it was once a lake. It makes sense now.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/56...9f6f842a19.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/56...9f6f842a19.jpg

odinthor Jan 6, 2018 3:23 AM

In re: The Mill, I have a note, evidently from a crystal ball as I didn't bother to write down the source, that Joseph Chapman--originally of Bouchard's piratical corps but subsequently a solid and useful Californian--was "October, 1821, requisitioned by the mission fathers to construct a mill at San Gabriel, as he had already done at Mission Santa Ines," with a further note that Newmark says that Chapman also built a mill at the future Capitol Milling Company site in L.A. If the San Gabriel mill was originally built in 1816, it could be that Chapman in 1821 was "requisitioned" to make the darn thing actually work.

odinthor Jan 6, 2018 5:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 8037955)

[...]

Yes, that title, repeated many times on the web, was the subject of my post on the building. I'm pretty sure it was never the capital of California...or Pio Pico's office.

t2 gives much good information and many references in the cited posts on the matter. To which I add:

In a book by an author whose taste, sense, and probity I consider equivalent to my own, Narciso Botello states that "I, along with some others, was in the government house at that time (the residence had belonged to Isaac Williams; Governor Pico had bought it with public funds, at a cost of about $10,000, paid in several installments; Pio Pico designated the house as being for the government, and established offices in it for the members of the assembly and others, it being the residence of the governor as well; now it is the Bella Union on Main Street" (Narciso Botello's Annals of Southern California 1833-1847, by Brent C. Dickerson, p. 70).

The same author, in an upcoming book, devotes the following lines to the same structure, which may or may not be of interest: "The town casa of Isaac Williams on Main St. was prone to being used for governmental purposes, and such was its usage by Governor Micheltorena, Governor Pico, Commodore Stockton, Capt. Gillespie, the Flores Revolt insurgent command, and the U.S. Court system prior to becoming the Bella Union Hotel. From various stray statements and hints, one gathers that it had at least one quite large room and further rooms sufficient for housing or office space for several officials, a passageway linking an inner courtyard to Main St., and a large walled corral in the back fronting on or even incorporating the adjacent section of Los Angeles St., large enough for temporary barracks as well as the horses."

The same author, who seems to have a lot of nervous energy to expend, devotes further lines to the matter, and provides a sort of reconstruction, or more accurately deconstruction, of the building at the notes to paragraph 178 at this site: http://web.csulb.edu/~odinthor/botello.html, about 3/4 of the way down.

tovangar2 Jan 6, 2018 6:23 AM

El Molino Vieja, El Molino Nuevo y La Presa
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by odinthor (Post 8038102)
In re: The Mill, I have a note, evidently from a crystal ball as I didn't bother to write down the source, that Joseph Chapman--originally of Bouchard's piratical corps but subsequently a solid and useful Californian--was "October, 1821, requisitioned by the mission fathers to construct a mill at San Gabriel, as he had already done at Mission Santa Ines," with a further note that Newmark says that Chapman also built a mill at the future Capitol Milling Company site in L.A. If the San Gabriel mill was originally built in 1816, it could be that Chapman in 1821 was "requisitioned" to make the darn thing actually work.

There's a link on El Molino Vieja's wiki page (note 7) which states:

"While several dates between 1810 and 1820 have been suggested as the actual year of construction for El Molino Viejo, 1816 seems the most probable. The records of Mission San Gabriel for this year state that a mill for grinding grain was built with measurements corresponding closely to those of El Molino Viejo."

So 1816 is a bit of a guess. I actually find it hard to believe that a mill which got the product wet would be used for 7 years.

Unless the entire mechanics of the dam was replaced, it wasn't going to work. The horizontal mill wheel drew water up the shaft to the milling area.
Joseph Chapman didn't design the mill works, that was José María de Zalvidea.

Chapman supervised the building of the new mill in 1821/22 with enslaved labor "furnished" by Zalvidea, as he had with the old mill. This time the mill wheel was vertical. It was paired with a dam (built at the same time) to capture the water which had powered the old mill. The water was carried in an adobe flume and a masonry millrace to the new mill at the mission, 3+ miles away to the SW. The new arrangement opened in 1823 (some sources say 1825).

The dam is still there, its reservoir now filled or covered over, on Sunny Slope Water Company land, about 2.5 miles below the old mill:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/N5...=w1208-h517-no
google maps

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fJ...-=w688-h538-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3Z...m=w730-h523-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/do...r=w339-h609-no
google maps images

"When L. J. Rose acquired the land in 1861, [Tongva] women from the nearby village of Acurag-na would still do laundry on the dam’s broad surface. Rose named the estate Sunny Slope."


- la creek freak



.....................................................


You are such a card odinthor.

What am I to make of this? (last para, "Alteration")

.

ethereal_reality Jan 6, 2018 7:09 AM

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/HcMb7p.jpg
detail

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 8037203)
I assume that the store belonged to Fred Hayman of Giorgio Beverly Hills fame (AKA "Mr Beverly Hills"/"Mr Rodeo Drive").
According to the 1967 CD (the store's only appearance), this was Fred Hayman Downtown at 749 S Hill Street.
The date ties in with a couple of the magazines I identified, which are from May 1967.

:previous: Thanks for your help Hoss.

Surprisingly, 'Fred Hayman's Downtown' was a restaurant and not a clothing a clothing store.

"By May 1965, a columnist reported Fred Hayman was leaving the Ambassador Hotel and teaming up with an investor
to take over an old downtown restaurant at Hill and Eighth Streets. He lost no time in overhauling the place,
from signature platters to red leather barstools, and rechristening it Fred Hayman’s Downtown.
"

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...924/ezs51D.jpg
fred hayman


& before Mr. Layman was the General Manager of the Ambassador Hotel, he was in charge of the banquet facilities,
and later the Resident Manager, of the Beverly Hilton.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/TZtcAJ.jpg
nowness


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/kGpfpf.jpg
fred hayman

______________

Lomara Jan 6, 2018 8:00 AM

Missions and water
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 8038211)

"When L. J. Rose acquired the land in 1861, [Tongva] women from the nearby village of Acurag-na would still do laundry on the dam’s broad surface. Rose named the estate Sunny Slope."


- la creek freak

This line about women doing laundry, plus the references to the mission, made me remember a visit to Ventura when I used to look for geocaches all the time. (http://www.geocaching.com for the curious)

The cache I sought was hidden at an adobe water filtration building. This small building was hidden in the Valdez Alley area of Eastwood park near the Ventura cross and the San Buenaventura Mission. (googlemap link: https://goo.gl/maps/AsNEhKd2JtJ2)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4734/...1aa1769f_b.jpg
Water Filtration Building by Kimberly, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4599/...343a871b_b.jpg
Water Filtration Building by Kimberly, on Flickr

I would never have known about this building or the area without geocaching. I had been in the area for work, and wanted to see what geocaches were in the area, so I could have a little fun hunting a few before I drove back home. There was also a cache at the Ventura cross.

odinthor Jan 6, 2018 1:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 8037063)
CBD, your description of who wore leisure suits is the opposite of mine.

I thought nerds wore leisure suits (especially Brown leisure suits)

#SCARREDFORLIFE

It was one of those things that went both ways, if memory serves. At first, they were for the hip and trendy crowd. Hip and trendy crowds, being not only hip but also trendy, set things aside pretty quickly, and it's on to the next shiny thing . . . but meantime, the price comes down because cheap knock-offs from overseas come on the market, the thing in question gets wider distribution, and folks who want to appear hip and trendy, and can now afford to do so, are now seen in their grip . . . . making the true hip and trendies start mocking them. So everybody's right.

Location adds another dimension. My beloved forebears and hordes of kinfolk are all Midwesterners, and if you scratch deep enough, you'll find that I'm at heart a Midwesterner . . . but here I am, all my life in fashion-forward Southern California. Many a time in my childhood, I well remember, I'd be exposed to cutting-edge items and ideas in my daily life--they would become my daily fare, so to speak--only to be shocked and, I must admit, a little amused five years later when the kinfolk back on the prairie would come around sporting these items or attitudes as if they were hot off the griddle. O tempora! O mores!

Martin Pal Jan 6, 2018 9:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffDiego (Post 8034687)
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/raaULq.jpg

Scotty with pals, mid 1950's.
http://wstale.com/wp-content/uploads...history_01.jpg
_______________________________________________________________

FWIW, here's an alternate photo from this location that I found on two non-English blogs.

http://www.moviestruckers.com/wp-con...-history-2.jpgMoviestruckers

Lwize Jan 6, 2018 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 8037017)
Here I am at Universal Studios in June 1974 wearing a BROWN leisure suit. (I was 13 years old)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...922/KZ9RKl.jpg

I visited Universal Studios a number of times during the 1970's (including the Summer of 1974), but wasn't aware of a Leisure Suit dress code for young boys.

I do remember wearing a fair amount of Corduroy back then, though, including OP Corduroy shorts.

It was a special time for fashion. The Brady Bunch set the style.

:)

odinthor Jan 6, 2018 10:09 PM

To add to our gallery of members' photos...

One peculiarity of the 1970s-early 1980s was tight clothing. Here I am with my clothing practically painted on . . .

https://s26.postimg.org/plpnvof3d/BCD80s_L.jpg
odinthor collection; taken at the Huntington Library

OK, I won't make you endure any more shots of me. :slob:

CityBoyDoug Jan 6, 2018 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 8037017)
Here I am at Universal Studios in June 1974 wearing a BROWN leisure suit. (I was 13 years old)

Did any of you NLAers wear leisure suits....or were they more of a Midwest thing?
_


ER was 13 years old then. When I was 13 we had a charge account at a local men's clothing store and I went there and charged for my own clothes. I only bought the clothes that I liked. When I was a teenager my mom was in college and too busy to fuss with our clothes. The billing-statements came in the mail and my father paid it. In this case ER's mom bought the Leisure suit for him.....it was her choice, not his, if I correctly understand what happened. I am sure she meant well. Also, ER turned out to be an exemplary person whom we all admire.

IMO by age 13 or 14 kids should be allowed to wear their own choice in clothes but each family has its own rules and traditions.

I recall that most of the clothing presents at Christmas were sort of neutral things like socks, ties and underwear.....not trousers, shoes and shirts.

ER is from middle America and family traditions and customs may have been different then and there. Life goes on.....;)

Flyingwedge Jan 7, 2018 1:47 AM

814 and 820 S. Flower Street
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alester young (Post 8037198)
That's a good looking Victorian shown on the right hand edge of the photo. Has it already been covered on the thread and is any history known about it? The neighbouring property also looks interesting. Was it an old mission church or was it just built to look that way?


alester young, I could not find any previous information at NLA on the house (820 S. Flower) or the property to its left
(814 S. Flower) in this 1916 photo you referred to:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...m.jpg~original

00013875 at LAPL



We're looking at the west side of Flower, just below 8th, and discussing the northern Lot 18 (814; vacant here)
and the north half of Lot 17 (820), Block 56. That's Flower on the left and 8th at the top:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...m.jpg~original

1910 Baist Map @ HistoricMapWorks


Henry A. Getz had 820 S. Flower built in 1893:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...y.jpg~original

Jan 22, 1893, Los Angeles Times @ ProQuest via LAPL


http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...n.jpg~original

Feb 25, 1893, Los Angeles Times @ ProQuest via LAPL


http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...a.jpg~original

Oct 1, 1893, Los Angeles Times @ ProQuest via LAPL


http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...5.jpg~original

Oct 30, 1893, Los Angeles Times @ ProQuest via LAPL


Henry Getz is first at 820 S. Flower in the 1894 LACD. I did not look into how the two Getzes got to be related:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...r.jpg~original

1894 LA City Directory @ fold3.com


Anyway, there is a Feb 2, 1922, building permit to move 820 S. Flower to 1332 Newton Street
(near S. Central Avenue and E. 14th Street):

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...v.jpg~original

LADBS


There is also a Sep 23, 1960, BP to demolish 1332 Newton.


As to 814 S. Flower, here is some information about it:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...n.jpg~original

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...h.jpg~original

Aug 4, 1912, Los Angeles Times @ ProQuest via LAPL


You can see 814 S. Flower being demolished here.

Los Angeles Past Jan 7, 2018 4:47 AM

Not just opossums
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by odinthor (Post 8037722)
Edit: But wait! There's more!:

Bonus: The above Col. Kewen was likely the source of the name of Kewen Dorsey. Who was Kewen Dorsey? The son of Hilliard Dorsey and Civility Rubottom, the latter of whom was the daughter of William Rubottom, who not only shot dead his son-in-law Hilliard but also supposedly imported the first possums into California.


William Rubottom, founder of the now-vanished town of Spadra: the first American settlement in Los Angeles County east of the San Gabriel River.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...wiley-rubottom

So many interconnections among the earliest Americanos in the Southland. Makes me suspect everyone was personally acquainted with everyone else here to some degree in pre-Civil War days.

odinthor Jan 7, 2018 4:55 AM

I gave y'all a teaser about this around Christmas; but it was too grim for the yuletide. Having mentioned Civility Rubottom recently, however, brings it to my attention again. She certainly lived a tumultuous life! Here's what happened with her second husband James M. Greenwade (as you will recall, her father shot her first husband dead), whom she had married May 1, 1860:

“Across the road [at Temescal Station] was another adobe. It was a store and stable. There was a store in it when [James] Greenwade was there, and, I believe, later when Tom Bedford had the place, but when I was there, there was no store. I don’t know when the adobes were built, but I suppose for the Butterfield stage line that ran through the Temescal in 1861. My information concerning Jim Greenwade came from Damron. Greenwade was a son-in-law of old Jim Rubottom [undoubtedly intending William Rubottom; Jim Rubottom would have been Greenwade’s brother-in-law], a well known character who settled at Spadra, near Pomona, back in the 50’s. Greenwade had charge of the station for the stage company, and kept on living there until he killed himself, and his daughter. Mr. Damron, who at the time lived as a neighbor, just up the canyon, said that Greenwade planned to kill himself, son [given names Jefferson Davis], daughter [Elizabeth], and wife [Civility Rubottom]. It was Christmas morning [1868]. Greenwade fixed up four glasses of toddy and poured in some strychnine. Mrs. Greenwade was busy with some sausage, and she set her glass to one side. The boy, Jeff[,] ran out of the house. When the girl [Lizzie] was taken with convulsions Jeff told his mother that he had seen his father put some powder in the glasses. Greenwade and the girl were buried on the side of the hill southeast of the station above a ditch that Greenwade had built to bring water down from the canyon to the east. Afterward, the bodies were moved away. That was before I went there” (Orange County History Series Volume Three. Santa Ana, 1939, pp. 63-64).

Civility Rubottom died at her father's house in Spadra on March 6, 1876.

ethereal_reality Jan 7, 2018 5:00 AM

The Butcher Block, 1386 North Lake Avenue [as seen in 1955] -and in 2014 (it's a nail spa now)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...922/gvYOcp.jpghttps://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/U6hZyK.jpg
avenuetothesky and gsv


The building is larger than I first thought; there are a couple other storefronts with the same creative brick design along the roofline.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/70oJv4.jpg

It's pretty obvious the brick design continues uninterrupted from one end of the building to the other but is now covered over in the middle.
What's surprising, is that middle section appears to be in place as far back as 1955. (see the Butcher Block photo)


Now to the rooftop sign at far right:

Obviously it's old, so I've been wondering what was originally there.
(the sign has recently been used by the Fred Astaire Dance Center, and now for Pasadena Fitness)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...924/xQDibL.jpghttps://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...924/OztMl9.jpg

I thought the building might have been a bank but the sign appears to be shaped like...a crown(?) :shrug:

Do any of you nearby residents remember what used to be there?
_

ethereal_reality Jan 7, 2018 7:19 AM

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/i9...k=w450-h436-no

Edward J.C. Kewen (1825 – 1879)


Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar
Lots of great photos of the mill building here

Thanks for the link t2. there are some great photographs.

I noticed one of the photographs at the link is blurry so I thought I'd go ahead and post it in high definition from [link coming]

(I don't believe we have seen this particular image on nla)

"Residence of Col. Kewen, San Gabriel"

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/jiHs31.jpg


I believe Col. Kerwen is on the balcony with his wife and daughter. (I have to admit, I skimmed through some of the background info. on Col. Kerwen) -sorry

But I have a question: (of course I do)

Did Col. Kewen have a handicapped son?

Down below, in front of the house, a young man is sitting in a wheel chair with an attendant behind him.
If he is part of the immediate family, he's probably down below, and not on the balcony with the rest, because of the difficulty presented by the stairs.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/QQn6Gc.jpg
detail

the young lad in the wheel chair breaks my heart. :(






a closer view of the family up above:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/PkLFJW.jpg
detail

_

side note:

the photograph is from a stereo-view
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...924/TVmJ9y.jpg


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