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Blaster Jul 8, 2016 2:15 AM

[QUOTE=odinthor;7497064]Going a bit afield to show it (minutely) in the distance from one of my favorite corners, Broadway and PCH in Surfside (the water tower house is the tiny speck indicated by the red arrows)... I like this corner because it has competing figures on the buildings. Capt. Jack's has the captain himself peering over the intersection, while across the street is a pirate (I'll leave it to your imagination how that relates to the business beneath, Antiques of the Sea); and it used to be that a third corner housed a place called Harpoon Harry's, which had a statue of HH himself, evidently aiming his harpoon at Capt. Jack (alas that it's no longer there). The fourth corner had several little businesses, one of them a massage parlor, making me wish that they too had erected a statue on their building. But the intersection's still playfully noir, in beach town mode . . .

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/...psyr0unrq0.jpg

Jumping into the Wayback Machine to Captain Jack's in 1977...

One Saturday afternoon, I was having a few beers at the bar when a small and aggressive man on the next stool struck up and then dominated, a conversation. He introduced himself as "Spit Shine" and his claim to fame was that he had served during WW II on a battleship with Victor Mature where he earned his nickname by having the shoeshine concession on the ship. He then related to me several semi-obscene stories supposedly told to him by shipmate Mature about his sexual adventures with Rita Hayworth.

[QUOTE=odinthor;7497064]

ethereal_reality Jul 8, 2016 5:12 AM

Originally posted by Tourmaline
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...924/COsZSs.jpg



I want to take a minute & look at this photograph a bit closer.


I first noticed the roof-top sign for Tartaglia Tailors.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...923/qso5Bz.jpg
detail




http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...923/gB06OZ.jpg
http://www.lacityhistory.org/blog/wp...ing-mirror.jpg

This pocket mirror, from an earlier era than Tourmaline's LIFE photo, shows each of the six Tartaglia brothers, Charles, Joseph, Michael, John, Angelo and Otto. Three of the brothers had married by 1920,and they all lived next to each other on S. St. Andrews Place.

...and this is interesting. "Each of the married brothers had one bachelor brother living with them."
___


I found a Beverly Hills address but it isn't on Rodeo Drive.

9885 Santa Monica Blvd. (the Tartaglia Tailors in Tourmaline's is on Rodeo Drive, right?)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...923/3LP8tC.jpg
http://www.lacityhistory.org/blog/20...-bros-tailors/




and this, also showing the Santa Monica address.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...922/lsREiQ.jpg
http://www.lacityhistory.org/blog/20...-bros-tailors/

_____________________________






*I'm not sure if the Tartaglia Tailors had any connection with the Tartaglia Apartments at 245 S. Fremont Ave.

Originally posted by Godzilla
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...921/IjNmBi.jpg
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=28897


Originally posted by Godzilla
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...922/n7qB8F.jpg
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=28897


__

Martin Pal Jul 8, 2016 6:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 7496137)
On a side note, the building in the background, which is now the Piazza Del Sol, has been covered before on NLA. During the '40s and '50s it was called the Coronet Apartments, but, if the picture above is 1939, we're looking at the Hacienda Arms Apartments, once descibed as the "classiest brothel on the Sunset Strip" - read a little more on Wikipedia.

Hacienda Arms/Apartments aka Coronet Apartments aka Piazza del Sol.

Hacienda Noir

Cast:
Paul Ivar Wharton
Mrs. W. A. Wharton
William McCauley Howard
N. C. McDermott
Henry E. Bolte
Virginia Bolte

If I can get a handle on this--as correctly as possible, in some kind of a story format,
because, as one source put it: "the facts of the case were vague."

Known professionally as Paul Ivar, Paul lived at the Hacienda Park Apartments with Mrs. W. A. (Ada) Wharton,
his invalid adopted mother. Mrs. Wharton told police that Paul was adopted originally by Charles Dorsett of Billings,
Montana, but he came to Los Angeles alone in 1926. (Paul was 25 in 1935, so he'd have been 16 then.) He became
an attendant at Aimee Semple McPherson's Angelus Temple and that's where she first met him. Later she adopted
him and brought him to her home to live, hence Paul Ivar Wharton.

Paul designed the robes for Aimee Semple McPherson’s choir along with a few of Sister Aimee’s costumes, in
addition to designing dresses for actresses Jean Harlow, Aileen Pringle, and Constance Bennett among others.
He may have been Chinese.

On April 25, 1935, according to Ada, Paul had a small dinner party entertaining two-or possibly three-male
acquaintances at a supper in his part of their quarters. Shortly after 10 p.m., Mrs. Wharton said she heard
several shots and, crawling into the room, she discovered Paul succumbing to his three gunshot wounds.
As she knelt over Paul another man she never saw before appeared, gave one look, and ran out.

The police, questioning Wharton's foster mother, a bedridden paralysis victim, said she heard Paul and his
dinner guests chatting after they had dined. Then she said she heard them quarrel and a moment later several
shots rang out. She said the voice of one of the fleeing guests who scrambled through a window, sounded like
that of a man she knew only as "Billy."

During the meal, her adopted son, Paul, looked into her room and she told him that earlier a woman tenant in the
building had tried to call on her, but that "a blond man" answered the door and tried to keep her out. "Who is that
blond man," she asked Paul and he replied, "Oh, he's just a friend of Billy's."

As they were questioning Mrs. Wharton, the police were called away to another shooting. Across town at 1 a.m.,
UCLA sociology professor and law instructor Henry E. Bolte, 38, who told his wife, Virginia, he was attending a
law banquet. He was walking through his apartment door when William M. Howard, shot him twice in the back
as Virginia watched. Then Howard turned the gun on himself.

What's happening?

https://jhgrahambooks.files.wordpres...-4-27-1935.jpg
https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,3938546&hl=en

The best the police could piece together, Paul Ivar had a dinner party and invited William McCauley Howard to supper, a man
he used mostly as an unpaid chauffeur, and Howard, around 35 years old, brought a 21 year-old blond sailor with him named
McDermott. The police eventually found McDermott and questioned him aboard the U.S.S. Pennsylvania. [Wonder if he was
still a sailor on the Pennsylvania when it was in Pearl Harbor six years later?]

McDermott said he didn’t know either Ivar or Howard until they picked him up a few days before the dinner when he was on his
way from San Pedro to Los Angeles, but he was soon staying at Howard’s apartment. At the dinner, Howard asked McDermott
to wait downstairs so he could speak to Ivar. McDermott was then surprised to see Howard speeding away shortly afterward,
and ran upstairs to borrow money from Ivar to get back to San Pedro. That’s when he found Ada Wharton holding the bloody Ivar.
So McDermott jumped out a kitchen window and hitched back to his battleship. [Jumped out the window? What?]

Howard went over to Bolte's place, waited for him and shot him before shooting himself. Bolte was in the hospital for
several days before succumbing to the wounds. Henry Bolte told the officers on the scene that he’d never seen Howard before,
but his wife Virginia identified him from a photograph as “a friend of the family” who was a frequent visitor as recently as five months
previously. Later she testified that Howard had worked as a chauffeur for her husband the previous year and had padded some bills that
Howard refused to pay. She called Howard a psychopathic type and denied there was anything more than a business relationship between
the two. The police attributed the entire murder, attempted murder and suicide to financial differences between the two men. [Yeah, what
else could have prompted all this besides "debt madness!"]

https://karencarpenterdiedforyoursin...6082839833.jpg
Henry G. Bolte in the hospital with his wife Virginia Bolte. Inset: Paul Ivar Wharton.

Ivar used his apartment as a work studio and the officers said they hoped to interview two seamstresses who worked for him to get some
information about his acquaintances and habits. Later on it developed that Ivar was involved a few months earlier in the disappearance of
a diamond ring and was put on probation. They interviewed actress Aileen Pringle who testified that Ivar had charged hundreds of dollars
of cosmetics to her account, telling her he used them. Investigators also interviewed a woman “dressed as a man” and uncovered a possible
underworld connection when friends of Ivar’s remembered him bragging that New York gangster Arnold Rothstein entrusted him with a million
dollars and then was shot and killed before he learned that Ivar had spent some of it. [?] By the way, actress Aileen Pringle had been aboard
William Randolph Hearst’s yacht, the Oneida, the weekend that director Thomas Ince was mysteriously shot, served as illustrator Ralph Barton’s
inspiration for Lorelei Lee’s friend Dorothy Shaw when he illustrated Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and, in 1944, she married James M. Cain.

How the police summed things up: “They were strange men who led strange lives,” a police officer told reporters.

Martin Pal Jul 8, 2016 6:56 AM

Ciro's:

I had no idea that Ciro's had suffered a large fire on June 28, 1943.


https://jhgrahambooks.files.wordpres...nset-strip.jpg

A Billboard blurb from the time period says that because of the WWII restrictions on building the club will
be out for the duration. The damage estimate was much higher than the one in the above photo. I can't
find out any other information about the fire, so far, like how and when it started or how long the place was
closed and when it reopened. Etc. Curious.


I did find a Chicago Tribune piece about it from Saturday, July 3, 1943.
It's a peculiar, tabloid type piece with an attitude.

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1...s-and-profiles


Front Views and Profiles
by Marcia Winn

Marcia's column is titled "Hollywood Drammer League." Her premise is:

Every one in Hollywood not in a studio is a repressed actor. It is a remarkable characteristic of the town. Go into a drug store and the counter girl serves you coffee with the manner grand. She wears false eyelashes and that pancake makeup that hides all, and has that throaty elocution of her high school drama class. Get on a bus and the man in front of you, an elderly man with an exquisite mustache, is greeting the driver with the "Ah! Good morning!" of a Shakespearean cavalier. The hamburger man performs extraordinary convolutions as he flips a hamburger, and the salesgirl wears a Veronica Lake pout and slinkiness. You end up convinced there isn't an honest movement or emotion in the town. This extends to unusual fields.

Even a fire cannot be extinguished honestly.
[She then relates a story of a fire in a restaurant near Paramount studios where they went and got Gary Cooper to come in a fireman's outfit and stand over the smoking ruins while cameras rolled. Then she relates a version of the Ciro's fire. Her sources?]

A beautiful example of Hollywood's amateur acting came the other dawn when Ciro's, a night club where the movie elite are wont to gather, caught on fire under fairly mysterious circumstances. Fire first started at 4 a.m., after the customers had (----) and the money had been hauled away. At 6 a.m. it started again in two spots, and a great crowd gathered, for this was better than any spectacle in the Hollywood bowl, and near-wit flowed like water. Some one commented on the smoke, and his neighbor retorted, in a shout that carried thru the crowd, that a little smoke wouldn't hurt Ciro's bourbon. Every one applauded this. Then a soldier said it probably was his fault. "I told the bartender just tonight when he charged me a buck for a rotten drink that I hoped the filthy place burned to the ground," he moaned. The crowd roared again. Then the firemen took over the entertainment field. Occasionally they would turn off the nozzles of their hoses, lean back against a wall, and exchange witticisms with the crowd. This was thought charming. Finally one fireman called down to a buddie, "Got a cigaret, chum?" Chum didn't, but, turning his hose off, he went inside the burning club and retrieved a new pack of cigarets. Emerging, he tossed this up to the fireman, but the fireman missed and the cigarets fell on a ledge. The fireman on the roof eyed the pack cagily and then turned off his hose. Smiling broadly at the crowd, he did a little two-step out along the ledge and retrieved the pack. He stood there and opened them, removed a cigaret, lighted it, and then, with a gallant bow to his audience, sauntered back to his hose. The crowd applauded magnificently. This was a fire in true Hollywood manner. Gary Cooper couldn't have done better.

GaylordWilshire Jul 8, 2016 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 7497242)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...923/gB06OZ.jpg
http://www.lacityhistory.org/blog/wp...ing-mirror.jpg

This pocket mirror, from an earlier era than Tourmaline's LIFE photo, shows each of the six Tartaglia brothers, Charles, Joseph, Michael, John, Angelo and Otto. Three of the brothers had married by 1920,and they all lived next to each other on S. St. Andrews Place.

...and this is interesting. "Each of the married brothers had one bachelor brother living with them."


*I'm not sure if the Tartaglia Tailors had any connection with the Tartaglia Apartments at 245 S. Fremont Ave.

Originally posted by Godzilla
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...921/IjNmBi.jpg
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=28897


It was the family dorm, built by them in 1912. This is from the 1913 LACD:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-m...taglia.bmp.jpg

ethereal_reality Jul 8, 2016 3:22 PM

Above: Thanks for finding that in the city directory GW. I appreciate it.
The apartment building was built in 1912! -much older than I expected.
__

Extremely interesting post on the mysterious 'going-ons' at the Hacienda Arms Martin Pal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal
How the police summed things up: “They were strange men who led strange lives,” a police officer told reporters.

:previous: love this line. ;)


Thanks for your diligent research.
__

ethereal_reality Jul 8, 2016 4:33 PM

Originally posted by HossC
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...924/S2nLv6.jpg
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=35783

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge
Great find, Hoss! That's quite a logo.

Here's a clearer look at the NAA logo that's visible above the entrance in Hoss's photo.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/320...923/WdlAbm.jpg



Bound organizational chart, with the logo in the lower right corner.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/924/iT5inn.jpg
http://www.bald-eagles.org/from-the-archives/
__







Family Day / Open House at North American Aviation LAX. [June 1956]

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...921/FngLAB.jpg


North American Aviation-LAX

"Main factory for North American was called the El Segundo Plant but was on the Los Angeles International Airport. Home of the Mustang, Sabrejet,
Super Sabre, Sabreliner, Tornado, Apollo, X-15, B-70 and the Space Shuttle amongst many.That's me...the little guy on the right with a jacket and tie on." -Jim Phillips


Lil' Jimmy
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...921/QvD5ya.jpg
detail






http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...921/gEMFcy.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/n303wr/4402766632

"North American Aviation products seen at an open house at LAX includes Super Sabre, Sabre, Fury, and ME!!!" -Jim Phillips




and here's one more. (Jimmy looks younger here in bibs sans tie....so this probably an earlier open house, also at LAX)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...924/8WZXli.jpg

above: "Sabrejet was built at LAX (El Segundo Plant) where my dad worked. That's my Mom with me!" -Jim Philips

__

I love family snapshots like this.

HossC Jul 8, 2016 7:51 PM

Stear's for Steaks was at 116 N La Cienega - part of Restaurant Row. As far as I can tell, it was the original site of Lawry's. Lawry's had moved to bigger premises down the street, but have since moved back to this location after redeveloping it. This is "Job 1873: Stear's, 1954". The scroll under the picture in the center of the first shot appears to say "In St Petersburg the Medjved was a favorite during the old Czarist days."

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...1.jpg~original

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2.jpg~original

Both from Getty Research Institute

I'm sure you're all wanting to see the exterior, but that's in a different set from two years later, so you'll have to wait until tomorrow!

ethereal_reality Jul 8, 2016 7:51 PM

"Our accident, Mamma, Uncle Don & Myself, 1930"

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...924/yzbOjJ.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-Origin...gAAOSwgQ9VgZFZ

1930 Car Crash Wreck Repair Shop - Los Angeles, CA




http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...922/GiNNSy.jpg
eBay




http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...922/1u9kDy.jpg
eBay




http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...922/BbYCDj.jpg
eBay



http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...923/sJCKiG.jpg

note from seller:
" I got these out of a storage unit I bought. The woman was born in Los Angeles in 1924.
In the writing on the back of one of the photos I assume the "Wilm" refers to Wilmington CA which is part of Los Angeles."

The woman the seller mentions is probably "myself" in the hand-written description, so she would have been 6 years old at the time of the crash.


__


below: Accident occurred at the corner of B St. and Marine Ave. (I believe B street is now W. Harry Bridges Ave.)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...922/UDIJWv.jpg
gsv

I wasn't able to find any information on why this intersection was once known as "Riley Corner".



__

ethereal_reality Jul 9, 2016 12:40 AM

'mystery' location.

"Original Kodachrome Slide ~ Los Angeles #1272 Trolley ~ Vernon. Calif ~ 4/1954."

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...924/84eg7Q.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Kod...IAAOSwZ1BXd~Su

:previous: I wonder if the gray station-wagon belongs to the shoe repair man? (it sorta' matches the building ;))

There's a street sign, but it's too far away to read.
__



Elkins Shoe Repairing

ethereal_reality Jul 9, 2016 12:51 AM

'mystery' location #2

"LAMTA Los Angeles 3017 Trolley, March 1963, Kodachrome 35mm train slide."

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...921/H2mZgU.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T136-LAMTA-L...3D272122988114

Not too many clues here, unless someone recognizes the slanted type-font of the silver letters.


__

ethereal_reality Jul 9, 2016 1:01 AM

Here's one more, before I call it a night.

'mystery' location #3

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...923/2c7zHK.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T088-LAMTA-L...3D311649872721

"LAMTA Original Kodachrome Los Angeles Scene, March 1963, Kodachrome 35mm Train Slide."

__

Flyingwedge Jul 9, 2016 2:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 7498034)
Here's one more, before I call it a night.

'mystery' location #3

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...923/2c7zHK.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T088-LAMTA-L...3D311649872721

"LAMTA Original Kodachrome Los Angeles Scene, March 1963, Kodachrome 35mm Train Slide."

__

This appears to be looking west on East 1st Street from Dacotah Street, down toward Rivera Street at the bottom of
the incline (behind the streetcar) and opposite the pile of dirt in Evergreen Cemetery across the street.

The green building on the SW corner of Dacotah and East 1st is small enough to have cast the shadow in the '63 photo:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...f.jpg~original
May 2014 GSV

The two red-roofed houses above the pile of dirt in the cemetery in the '63 photo are on the west side of N. Evergreen Ave.,
between East 1st Street and Pennsylvania Avenue (the one on the right has been remodeled a bit since '63):
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...w.jpg~original
May 2014 GSV

Flyingwedge Jul 9, 2016 3:01 AM

More 317 S. Windsor Blvd.
 
I found another early photo of 317 S. Windsor, built in 1914 for Thomas O'Neill:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...m.jpg~original
August 1919 The Architect and Engineer of California @ HathiTrust

My earlier post on 317 and its neighbor 333 is here.

HossC Jul 9, 2016 8:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 7498013)

'mystery' location.

"Original Kodachrome Slide ~ Los Angeles #1272 Trolley ~ Vernon. Calif ~ 4/1954."

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...924/84eg7Q.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Kod...IAAOSwZ1BXd~Su

This one is looking southeast on Cypress Avenue at Alice Street (I'm not sure why it's labeled "Vernon").

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...ressAlice1.jpg
GSV

Before I found the location, I thought the streetcar was on a sharp turn, but if you look at this 1952 aerial, you'll see that the streetcar tracks crossed from one side of Cypress Avenue to the other at Alice Street.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...ressAlice2.jpg
Historic Aerials

I couldn't find Elkins Shoe Repairing in the CDs, but there is a James A Elkins living at 3302 Alice Street in 1956.

ethereal_reality Jul 9, 2016 9:02 PM

:previous: Thanks HossC and Flyingwedge for figuring out the locations to two of my 'mystery' slides from last night.

I appreciate your help.
__




Here's another slide.

"TROLLEY TRACTION 35mm-Slide #174- Nov.1968 Los Angeles PE Pacific Electric"

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...921/xj68KE.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TROLLEY-TRAC...sAAOSw0HVWDDkk

Did each window have a blind....or is that one long blind.....or are they working on the interior and that's a sheet?
__
the seller writes:
"This slide comes from the vast railroad and transit slide & negative collection of my deceased father, Howard J. Wayt (1935-1998).
The majority of the slides date to the 1960s and 1970s. Many images were taken by my father, but many others were bought from
other collectors/photographers."

__

HossC Jul 9, 2016 10:03 PM

As promised yesterday, here's the exterior of Stear's. Julius Shulman apparently took these pictures to show a remodel, but as we don't have any previous images of the outside, we'll have to get inside before we can make comparisons. This is "Job 2166: Stear's - remodel, 1956".
NB. This first image originally had blue crop markings on it. I've done my best to remove them.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...3.jpg~original

A better view of the sign.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...4.jpg~original

A view from the north.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...5.jpg~original

Please exit your cars.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...6.jpg~original

I've left out a few pictures from this set. One was a close-up of the door above, but this one is quite similar. Let's go inside ...

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...7.jpg~original

Take a seat at the bar while we get your table ready.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...8.jpg~original

Or maybe have a smoke.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...9.jpg~original

I'm guessing that this is the same room we saw yesterday - it's the only one with a curved wall.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...0.jpg~original

More tables.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...1.jpg~original

I'll finish the Shulman photos with this wide view of the dining area. Is that where they cooked the steaks at the back?

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2.jpg~original

All from Getty Research Institute

Until I found the photoset above, this was the only good exterior view I had. Going by the Thunderbird, this must be at least mid-60s. Notice that the colors on the sign have been reversed and the words "FOR STEAKS" have been added.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...3.jpg~original
www.gettyimages.com

ethereal_reality Jul 9, 2016 10:03 PM

:previous: Very interesting Hoss. I've been waiting for the exterior photos.

It's curious....there's a round room with windows in the interior, yet only right angles on the exterior.
__





'mystery' location

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...922/CmcR2P.jpg
eBay

I really like the old 'hotel' blade sign (and the one at street level as well) and the BOYS sign. -very cool

__

Ed Workman Jul 9, 2016 10:15 PM

Here's another slide.

"TROLLEY TRACTION 35mm-Slide #174- Nov.1968 Los Angeles PE Pacific Electric"

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...921/xj68KE.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TROLLEY-TRAC...sAAOSw0HVWDDkk



__[/QUOTE]
Each window had a blind
This is PE 1299, rebuilt from a 1200 series coach into a business car. The pres spent the summers in Newport Beach, commuted to 6th & Main and one could buy a ticket I believe.
The pic was taken at Pomona Fairgrounds. Near the end of LAMTA red car service there was an effort to pull it out of the grounds and run a fantrip, but too many obstacles prevented that. The car is I belive operable. and in any case preserved at OERM, Perris

ethereal_reality Jul 9, 2016 10:26 PM

:previous: very interesting information ED! thanks so much.


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