CHICAGOLAND | Urban Development in the Burbs
So far based on our discussion, here is a working list of Chicago's better suburban downtowns, which have a variable amount of shopping, dining, entertainment, and historic architecture. Some are more lively than others, some are more quaint than others, some are more ritzy and some are more working class. Please feel to suggest additions (or subtractions) from this list. Pics welcomed!
Glencoe Highwood WIlmette Winnetka Ravinia Hubbard Woods La Grange Hinsdale Lake Forest Evanston Oak Park Naperville Highland Park Arlington Heights Geneva Woodstock St Charles Des Plaines Park Ridge Elmhurst Aurora Elgin (Aurora and Elgin based on sheer size as opposed to retail activity) |
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You said "favorite", so...
1) Oak Park 2) Evanston 3) Winnetka/Hubbard Woods 4) Elmhurst 5) Geneva 6) Woodstock 7) St Charles 8) Highland Park 9) Park Ridge 10) Des Plaines I'm not a huge fan of Naperville or Arlington Heights. Both places feel soulless and artificial to me, like the blend of businesses and amenities was carefully crafted by retail consultants or something. Des Plaines is fun because it's so diverse and it has so much potential. It's not Flushing by any stretch, but there are numerous businesses run by Hispanic, Eastern European, and Asian immigrants. The city is density-friendly and they've allowed residential streets around downtown to get built up with big 4+1s. If they only allowed a few towers in the downtown, they could have a very bustling pedestrian district forming. |
^ Wow, Ardecila, thanks for the tip.
I have done the "Chicago" thing exhaustively (not that I'm ever going to get tired of the city anytime soon), but I've been interested in doing a suburban tour. I haven't been to many of those suburbs, but I'll be sure to add them to my list of places worth visiting. Interestingly, what is it about Oak Park that makes you put it above Evanston? One thing: Naperville gets a lot of hate around here. But to be honest, its downtown is really nice! What it may lack in character, I think is made up by the fact that at least they are making an effort to create a walkable retail/entertainment environment that isn't too far from the Metra station. And I LOVE the riverwalk. |
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1. Evanston 2. Highland Park 3. Wilmette 4. Oak Park 5. Lake Geneva (I know it is WI but it only takes 1.5 hours to get there) |
Anybody want to weigh in on Skokie (ie Touhy Ave)? Correct me if I'm wrong, but much of the walkable main st-style portions of Touhy are in Skokie right?
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And, yea, it's close to the Metra - like every other suburban downtown. It's not like they're doing people a favor by developing it. I do think their parking system is very clever, though. |
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Shit, I did forget LaGrange. That would probably sit in at #6 on my list.
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Ardecila I suppose Hubbard Woods edges out Glencoe and Lake Forest (each also next to a Metra station) because the latter are too small and too boutique-y, despite Hubbard Woods being kind of a strip and nowhere near as pretty as the latter? Or are you including downtown Winnetka with Hubbard Woods (they are quite separated)?
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I understand that Winnetka has two downtowns (Highland Park too, or three if you count Braeside). Hubbard Woods is somewhat small but it's well laid out and oriented around a beautiful town square at the train station. Green Bay Rd is lined with many unique and successful businesses and the street has great architectural character with mostly 1920s Tudor and Neoclassical.
From my perspective, Hubbard Woods is more beautiful than downtown Lake Forest, which is a weird eclectic architecture and purposefully auto-oriented, whatever that meant in the 20s. For the most part, though, the North Shore is pretty good urbanistically. Glencoe's downtown is not even worth considering for the business mix, architecture, or pedestrianism. Lake Bluff and Ravinia do much more with less. It's often difficult on the North Shore to decide whether each downtown feels nice because of good design and planning, or because really wealthy people poured money into them to avoid embarassment. I'm confident at least that Hubbard Woods is successful by design. It's a compelling place to be, which would remain true even if Ann Sacks and the Gap were replaced by pawn shops and bail bondsmen. |
Hubbard Woods however is largely awful north of Merrill Street. That leaves just 2 nice blocks, and they end with a gas station and have a couple other tooth gaps. The other thing is that those blocks straddle an arterial - Green Bay - and their sidewalks are not terribly wide with no planted strip between the sidewalk and the curb. Those might be good things or non-issues in the city, but in this small-scale suburban neighborhood context, it's feels suddenly congested without the usual density benefits of lots of choices. I can see how on Google Street View it looks very pretty but the actual experience is underwhelming - and the station park also is not as nice as it seems.
I guess there are different ways of looking at what should be desirable in a suburban downtown, because I understand the points you made too. On that basis Glencoe indeed doesn't come into the picture, but I think downtown Winnetka does deserve a nod. |
This is incredibly off subject, but I'll weigh in anyways. Evanston definitely wins with both El and Metra access and a fair mix of retail types as well as architectural styles. There is a good amount of residential density in the area as well with the highrises and such. This and the fact that many North Shore residents see it as an easily accessible downtown area (compared to the Loop and Michi Ave) means that walkable street life is pretty good as people park in one of the parking structures (I took the train a lot when I was in high school) and walk around for hours. Beyond that, you've got the added bonus of a dynamic university right next door.
As far as smaller towns go, I tend to prefer the 1920's aesthetic of Glencoe, Hubbard Woods (before you get to the strip mall to the north - the park is nice as well), Winnetka, Wilmette is okay, Lake Forest. Even Oak Park imo suffers from the same problem as these places - the gravity / size of locations is not strong enough to lure people out of their cars and let them walk around. |
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I agree that all these posts (including mine) should be merged into a suburban Chicago thread. I also have lots of pictures of Oak Park, Naperville, Winnetka, Willmette, Evanston, and Highland Park. |
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My top 6, in no particular order would be Oak Park, Evanston, LaGrange, Elmhurst, Highland Park, Naperville. Oak Park and Evanston are obvious... Elmhurst, LaGrange and HP have a great scale to them, with a nice mixture of uses all within a walkable distance from main thoroughfares and Metra to get my vote. And even while I despise Naperville, they are trying really really hard to make their downtown as dense and vibrant as possible. I was recently there on a Saturday night and the streets were packed. |
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Braeside is not a downtown, just a Metra stop with a couple businesses across the street. There's a weird little area just to the west of Route 41/Skokie Highway at Deerfield Road that has more claim to title of Highland Park's "third downtown" than Braeside. If we're just talking the North Shore, I'd say downtown Highland Park easily outranks all the others after Evanston. There are some questionable planning choices and architecture styles, to be sure, but some really great ones, as well: underground parking, higher density (and mixed income) housing (something you won't find much of in the rest of the North Shore: limousine liberalism and whatnot), mixed use. In general, the city has taken more risks, and the overall result is an interesting mix—most often nice, sometimes endearingly quirky. When you consider the institutions housed there (the high school, a middle school, and an elementary school; the city hall; the library; the historical society; an art center—"The Art Center") and some of the businesses (Saks, Anthropologie, E Street, Paper Source, boutiques, spas, bakeries, chocolate shops, an art house movie theater, a second-run theater, Sunset Foods) and restaurants (Once Upon a Bagel, Michael's, Stash's, Love's frozen yogurt, Walker Bros.), IMO, it's hard to find anything else in the area that comes close. Quote:
ETA--sorry, TUP, missed your post. |
Let me start this by saying that I have very little expeience with Chicago suburbs.
What do you mean by "favorite" - do you mean the best place to visit or the best place to live? While I agree that the retail mix is rather bland at Arlington Heights, and the architecture of the recent buildings varies from eye gougingly bland to ungainly pastiche, it seems to me to be a very livable town. The presence of a major grocery store right across the street from the Metra station helps a lot. I have relatives who live in a bungalow a couple blocks from there and it seems pretty nice to me. |
Here's some pics I have handy of Naperville
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3121/2...3368b70a_b.jpg http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3238/2...098b553b_b.jpg http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3291/2...ed5f246a_b.jpg |
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I don't really know a ton about downtown Joliet either, but it doesn't have the best reputation. Neither do the other industrial satellites of Aurora and Elgin, although Aurora is getting better. |
for their architecture alone, i've got to give props to downtown aurora and elgin. they're not the liveliest of places, but they have bigger bones than most suburban downtowns because they weren't built as burbs.
my pics: elgin http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4610/20toweryq4.jpg http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8656/21elginlo6.jpg http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/448/22towerpv4.jpg http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5870/23elginjl8.jpg http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/2...artdecoxy4.jpg http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8286/25elginvw6.jpg aurora http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9371/53toweruk3.jpg http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/2...verparkmj9.jpg http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8939/55aurorakk6.jpg |
^ I'll add those two to the list. The first post of this thread will be a compilation of nominated towns
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I haven't seen Central Ave in Evanston brought up yet... really nice business district there. Quote:
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While we are discussing suburban downtown development:
$30 million office/retail project slated for downtown Naperville http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.co...maxw=368&q=100 |
Cool thread. I'm only familar with the SW side downtowns, plus downtown Joliet which is pretty rustbelt-y. I've been to downtown Downers Grove several times and boarded metra there, how does that rank? Small? I love how these downtowns (at least the ones I've been to) feel connected *to* Chicago and not *apart from* Chicago like the old rail commuter suburban downtowns west and sw of St. Louis often feel.
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i don't think anyone has mentioned Park Ridge yet, but if we're including small potatoes places like thrillmette and winnetka in the discussion, then a more substantial downtown like park ridge absolutely has to be included. mount prospect too. and hell, palatine too. if we're gonna include that level of suburban downtown, there are so many to list. lombard, downers grove, wheaton, libertyville, homewood, brookfield, glen ellyn etc. etc. - just take a ride on all of the metra lines.
and urb, if you're adding aurora and elgin for their architectural legacy, then joliet absolutely has to be included in that group too, but i don't have pics unfortunately. Quote:
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Kenosha? [/hometown boosterism]
. . . |
Steely, Park Ridge has already been mentioned.
Regarding the rest, I guess I'm wondering if the list should be less inclusive since you are right, any suburb with a walkable main st (and I'm guessing there are a lot) would qualify. Perhaps I should just narrow it down to a "Top ten suburban downtowns" list? Criteria to consider: 1. Retail and entertainment activity 2. Access to transit 3. Architecture So what should the top 10 be? |
^ evanston is number 1. oak park is number 2.
after that the rankings get far more muddled and less clear to me, though naperville, highland park, and arlington heights get mentioned a lot. |
TUP as someone that lives out in McHenry county I would take Woodstock off the list and replace it with Crystal Lake [2 lakes, Crystal Lake and the larger Vulcan lake with beach access ]. An excellent park system. Metra access and much better dining and diversity of dining [ Thai, Indian, like 7 different japanese resturants, ect , shoping, stores, schools 3 High Schools and a private High school,.. It boarders LITH and Algonquin with access to both from the Randal road corridor. Those 3 attached towns have well over 100,000 citizens. There are also two colleges in Crystal Lake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Lake,_Illinois Woodstock is a dump IMO. Tuns of section 8. |
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Woodstock earns an honorary designation because of its role in Groundhog Day, one of my favorite movies of all time |
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Absolutely needed to have: Metra station Full-service grocery store Movie theater Bookstore Coffeeshops Restaurants Good, but not essential CTA el station Post Office Green space/park Library I think the most limiting requirements in the won't compromise category are the movie theater and grocery. Every downtown has coffee shops and restaurants, but few have a functioning movie theater and grocery store. OP even has two if you count the Whole Foods across the street in River Forest. Obviously the CTA requirement rules out all but OP and Evanston. Living within drunken stumbling distance of downtown OP, I'm probably a bit biased, but I can't think of any major category that it is missing. |
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^ skokie's downtown will soon have a yellow line el stop when the new oakton station finally opens, which I believe is any day now. Skokie is not served by metra though.
Downtown wilmette has a metra station, but the end of the line linden stop on the purple line is about 1 mile east of downtown wilmette. There is a modest commercial district around the linden stop, but it's certainly distinct from downtown wilmette. |
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Touhy is a bombed out hell hole in places except for maybe a few blocks where it is lined by a few retail stores and 60's ranch homes. |
^ yep, downtown skokie is unquestionably centered around oakton/lincoln/niles center, though the vast bulk of retail activity in skokie actually takes place up at old orchard.
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^ touhy goes right through the heart of downtown park ridge, which is a bit further west. it's still a big busy auto-sewer, but far nicer than it is over in niles/skokie/lincolnwood.
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I'm not going to nominate my hometown of Bartlett although our downtown does contain most of the criteria and is growing (slowly) but it's way to small and has little significance compared to other things.
Elgin on the other hand, has done a lot of great things to help their downtown thanks to Grand Victoria casino and is now very walkable and with the new mixed use projects going to be built along the river, should transform the area even further. Even though the list is full I think a town to consider is Barrington. Very walkable (even though route 59 and the northwest highway go right through it) downtown area and tons of festivals and farmers markets all summer. Its a lot bigger than it should be for a town of only around 10,000. And also to put to rest the Naperville hate, people hate Napervillains because all they can talk about is how great Naperville is and how great they are for living in Naperville. |
Too bad Rivers Casino wasn't built in downtown DesPlaines. They could have built on that triangular parcel along Miner. The garage could go on the back parcel and possibly over the Metra Tracks. Maybe they would have even built a hotel. Then again, it's a tiny parcel...and by a school. I don't know if that makes any difference
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This is good, actually, it gives me more of this great megapolis (or pending megapolis, once we reach 10 million people) to explore. Problem is, I need to prioritize, which is partly why I started this thread. There are so many opinions out there, but I guess I need to get a handle on the most important places to visit first, and then go from there. The Evanstons, Oak Parks, and Napervilles are slam dunks, but it seems as if the list gets a bit tricker after this point. |
Some "Suburb of Chicago" Development I realize this is technically in the city of Chicago, but this area by O'Hare is a large job center with office and hotel towers, shopping, etc and it's very well served by transit.
http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/AR...26q%3D100.jpeg Via CurbedChicago 405-unit luxury apartment building just east of O'Hare at Bryn Mawr and Delphia Curbed: http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2...near-ohare.php Crains: http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.co...ned-near-ohare |
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^ I long ago abandoned the silly notion the predominates around here that the only things worth seeing are 'urban'
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I was in Evanston's city hall today and saw this cool aerial of central Evanston hanging on a wall in the basement, so I snapped a quick pic with my phone, hence the poor quality.
Chicagoland's Best Suburban Downtown http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9...stonaerial.jpg |
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1. Direct access from downtown to the lake 2. Beautiful historic neighborhoods 3. Downtown filled with a diversity of chain and mom/pop retail, restaurants, and bars. 4. Good traditional urban density. Nothing fabricated, or "new urbanist" about it. The real deal. 5. Direct access to frequent CTA and Metra access to other suburbs and the city of Chicago. 6. Contains a top ranked university. I'm one of those people that travel on a regular basis to cities all across the US...big and small. I have an open mind and try to look for the best in everything I see, but I have yet to find a suburb in the midwest that has it all like Evanston. |
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clayton for st. louis? royal oak for detroit? i think downtown evanston likely beats both of those in most measures. |
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