HypotheticAlly speaking, if the Feds resurrected (miracle?) their funding offer to Florida for the original plan, and say Charlie Crist got the governorship back, is the original plan still doable now with FEC in the picture?

Yes, absolutely.

But at the federal level, the Republican HoR would still be a stumbling block. Depending on how it shakes out after 2014, I think a Rep senate filibuster could be broken though.

It's also important to note that Rick Scott has been laying the ground work to fill in the HSR right of way along I-4 with for-profit corporate toll lanes. If reelected, it'll be all but a sure thing.

I doubt the feds resurrect the $2 billion gift that was once up on the table but I could see AAF and FECI expanding to Tampa along the I-4 corridor (old HSR project's proposed path).

He's not stupid. That decision was more about self serving politics than what was best for the state long term. Unfortunately, in this state, there's a lot of money being made off of road building and sprawl.

For example, to make their project a reality, AAF had to agree to pay the Orlando Orange County Expressway Authority millions. Since the Beach Line is a toll road, they were fearful that a successful train would mean less automobile traffic. Without AAF agreeing to subsidize their desired profits, they would have refused to lease ROW for the rail line's extension from the coast to Orlando.

True, CA does have a surplus this year however, CA is also in debt at least $132 BILLION, not including billions in liabilities for public pensions and retiree health care benefits. $10 Billion is owed to the Federal Government for unemployment benefits alone.

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/sacrament...-load-132.html

I know this is about the train from Orlando to Miami
also connects to the new Ft laud Wave Train

but what does CA & Arnold The Terminator have to do with
rick scott ??

Sure, there's no technical reason why it wouldn't work. It could be structured as a TIFIA loan to AAF rather than a direct grant.

AAF would need local and state assistance to assemble the right-of-way between the airport and the I-4 median, but it's not inconceivable.

Actually, he lied to all Floridan people, and he didn't telling the truth. He should be removed from the office. He won't be next term. He will not be eligible for next Florida governor. Rick Scott is smartass. He stupid, cheat, steal and etc. I hate Rick Scott.

Good riddance to Rick Scott!!! Get him out of the office now!

Per the Orlando Business Journal:

Here’s what you can look out for in 2014 with regards to All Aboard Florida:

• The next series of public meetings will take place to get public input on an environmental impact study being done by third-party consultant Vanasse Hangen Brustlin Inc. The first series of meetings was held last spring. See details on that study process here.

http://www.allaboardflorida.com/wp-c...reen-FINAL.pdf

• Once the Federal Railroad Administration receives the study and the public input from the meetings, it can sign off on the project and construction can begin from West Palm Beach to Orlando.

• Infrastructure on the rail project will start, generating temporary 6,600 construction jobs and $400 million worth of construction work will take place in Central Florida.

• Construction to start on the 80-acre vehicle maintenance facility near the Orlando airport, where 80 permanent jobs will be created to manage eight of the rail system’s 10 rail cars.

• A contractor being named to handle the manufacturing of the passenger train cars, known as rolling stock.

Interesting. AAF and FEC's parent company just acquired downtown Jacksonville's largest hotel for $53 million. Gotta love the name.....Jacksonville Hotel 2014 Purchaser LLC....

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonvi....html?page=all

http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542234

It's been long rumored that the service would be extended to Jax, assuming the Miami/Orlando line ends up as a success.

This acquisition is probably totally unrelated with bringing passenger rail back to the old downtown terminal but this hotel is the key to getting the convention center out of the old train station, adjacent to FEC's tracks through downtown.

The Hyatt property has first dibs on the old courthouse site across the street. The old courthouse and its parking lot, are the long rumored site for a new downtown convention center.

I think it'd be a couple of years before you see AAF trains head that far up the coastline.

What I am interested in is what the new downtown Miami station will look like.

No doubt. I can see something being operational before 2020 though, assuming the initial line starts off well. The track and destinations are already in place. I'm interested in what they do in Miami, as well as Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. I want to see if any other rail companies consider jump starting similar operations tied to real estate development.

Crist needs to win in November, so that the state can then work out a deal with FEC for the I-4 ROW to Tampa.

One can't help but wonder how different the I-4 corridor would look today if Crist never left office early. It's entirely feasible the State could have ended up with that HSR line between Tampa and Orlando and AAF's project from Orlando to Miami.

Or FEC would be partnering with the HSR operator for a system linking Tampa, Orlando, Jax and Miami.

Regardless of who was running it, the line between Tampa and Orlando would definitely be UC like it was supposed to be, and the transit initiatives in Hillsborough, Pinellas and Polk would be looked at much differently.

I agree as well. I hope so. If Charlie Crist will win the election. He will return work for governor again. Rick Scott is not good governor. He has no experience at all. That's why he failed to do so. He canceled the HSR and etc. There is no reason to canceled it.

Hmmm, so Rick Scott is a rail buff now. Must be getting close to reelection time.....

The State is going to pay for the rail station at MCO. It will initially serve AAF but will be designed for a SunRail extension as well.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...0,892246.story

Oh gosh, Scott was so wrong for canceling the free high speed rail project, but at least this is a moderate step in the right direction.

Yeah, he is idiots. He can't do something for HSR and etc. Yes, he was very wrong for what he did. He lied to all Florida residents. He won't able work for governor ever again for life. He will eventually to loses. He will be fired. They will kicked him out of State Capital.

The funny thing is if that HSR project wasn't torpedoed, this $200 million station would have been funded without local or state tax dollars as a part of that $2 billion project.

^It's never about doing what's right by the general public. It's always about what's best for themselves.


Election year posturing.

At this point, both systems that would use the station are done deals, so really any governor who didn't pledge support for the project is being an asshole, just because he can.

Besides, the legislature will probably nix it anyways.

So true as evidenced by this map :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ando_route.png

http://bettercities.net/sites/defaul...ilmap-full.jpg

If you look at the maps above Sunrail would have intersected with HSR in Orlando between the last 2 stops between the Orange County Convention center & the Airport.
But thanks to Rick Scott and his rejection of HSR as it stands now Sunrail and the All Aboard Florida trains won't meet at all. The closest Sunrail station to the Orlando Airport is about 5 miles away and as far as I know there isn't a CSX rail spur that turns east and heads to the Airport.

Could you imagine that Florida could have had a comprehensive rail system with HSR from Tampa to Orlando then connect with a AAF train down to Miami?
If there was a realistic way to recall and remove Governor Skeletor from office I would have signed a petition years ago. He really screwed us! :hell:

Even privately financed rail projects have opposition.....

http://www.floridanotallaboard.com/

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Flori...216658&sk=info

NIMBY's suck. How selfish and short sighted can people possibly be?

All Aboard Florida has revealed a new site devoted to the project: http://www.allaboardflorida.com/

They have a E- newsletter for updates on the project: http://www.allaboardflorida.com/get-on-board/index.html

===================================
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http://www.allaboardflorida.com/images/banner4.jpg

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http://www.allaboardflorida.com/facts/index.html

AAF responds to opposition groups via launch of new website that shows off a rendering of the Miami Station:

http://www.allaboardflorida.com/files/nav/aboutus.jpg

http://www.allaboardflorida.com/

Wow, that's really high. If that's a train at the top, then top-of-rail must be 45' above the ground. At a grade of 2% for passenger rail, those tracks would have to start rising as soon as they crossed under 395.

I guess it has to be this high to clear the Metromover at 5th St, though. Usually urban viaducts are not that high. Ogilvie Station in Chicago has tracks at about 22' above street level. European cities are similar. Tokyo has some stations this high, though.

I'm glad AAF is planning an integrated retail development. The surrounding blocks here are filled with pretty impersonal office buildings and parking garages, narrow sidewalks and wide streets, so it's important that the station itself become a center for shopping/eating.

^I think I would have realigned the Metromover, rather than make the platform have to be so high.

AAF doesn't necessarily have that choice as a private company, and the two-level Metrorail/Metromover transfer is a key lynchpin of the Miami transit system.

Doing a high platform also allows for two levels of retail below the tracks; this is much cheaper/easier than putting retail above the tracks.

From an urban design standpoint, the tall station is just so massive. The design seems to be good so I don't have a problem with it - the transit hub of a major metropolis like SoFla should be huge to correspond with its importance.

Most of the opposition is based upon two issues,
train horns and accessibility.

Establishing quiet zones isn't cheap and local governments wish to see FEC pick up that additional cost. All the FEC is required to do by federal law is the sound the horn on the trains at intersections. It's up to local cities to ask the FRA, plan, fund, build, and maintain the infrastructure for the implementation of quiet zones. Being quiet and being safe are two different things.

Intermediate cities and counties not getting a station initially want one too. They feel they are being left out getting none of the advantages (benefits) while getting all of the disadvantages (troubles). That's true with just about every rail project, high speed or not, some cities are bypassed.

My take: If the intermediate cities want train services, they can always implement their own transit service to do so using their own resources, then contract with FEC to use their tracks and build train stations on their property. Put some of their own skin into the game. Privately ran railroads will always cherry pick what services they will be willing to provide to maximize profits. A good place to start implementing a transit agency is by assuming the costs for implementing quiet zones establishing a working relationship with the private railroad company. If the intermediate cities aren't willing to accept the costs of implementing quiet zones, what creditability will they establish creating a transit agency?

is there any updates on the Orlando airport ???

This is the latest article about AAF I've come across this week:

All Aboard Florida will generate $6B in economic impact over next 8 years: report

full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonvi...-economic.html

the new airport station for All Aboard will also connect
with the new monorail to the convention center and florida Mall .....
anybody got route/plans for the monorail track.....

oh yeah , the maps are new for Orlando /ft laud & Miami
the wiki map & google maps.......

nice update on the MIA train station/Amtrak & TriRail

Miami-Orlando train executives unveil plans for massive downtown station, shops


http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/2...xecutives.html

http://i60.tinypic.com/288jr5.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/687exy.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/2s8oe48.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/2aj0umd.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/20r2rg6.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/2ytzdkl.jpg

This looks incredible!

Hopefully it is actually built!

^ Florida East Coast Industries who owns the right of way for the AAF train station and the adjacent 11.2 acres of land on the edge of downtown Miami has very deep pockets to build this including a 80 story tower. In the map below everything in red is Florida East Coast property:

http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs...pfor%20web.jpg

^ then the land between the American Airlines Arena to the Miami-Dade County Administration building is where the huge Miami World Center project is set to rise.

http://miami.curbed.com/uploads/eafIta1.jpg

^ in the above rendering you can see on the upper left side where the current Metrorail line is & where this project will be behind the Miami World Center project. This is going to radically transform downtown Miami.

bobdreamz:
This is one of the most interesting transportation investments in the United States right now. This is very exciting to see.

Leveraging development and land-use around the stations to pay for infrastructure is the model that several of the Japanese high-speed rail operators use to help finance their system.

202 What is crazy about this is that FECI has been sitting on these 11.2 acres in the heart of downtown Miami for about 50 years when they abandoned passenger rail and sold the right of way to the county to build Metrorail in the 1980's. They just basically used them as parking lots! This is what they own:

http://i.imgur.com/WVk59.jpg

and what is to come :

http://www.transitmiami.com/wp-conte...miCorridor.jpg

I think they finally realized they have a Gold mine by owning adjacent property along the entire ROW on the All Aboard Florida route up to Cocoa.

This is also what is happening in Ft. Lauderdale:

http://mms.businesswire.com/media/20...jpg?download=1

This is all so exciting. Henry Flagler's legacy lives on, and in an amazing way.

I hope this Miami to Orlando train is a great success. I'd love to see them extend to Jacksonville and do something with the old Jacksonville Terminal. They already own the tracks and have been scouting the area out for a potential second phase. Hopefully something materializes before the decade is over.

That would be fantastic, imo. I think a line to Tampa from MCO would also be a huge success.

FEC could basically replicate the original route of the HSR. I'm convinced they could make it work.

Key to the success of this entire project is a link to the Port at Cape Canaveral -- quickly expanding and a prime mass transit contender from OIA. I hope they jump on the opportunity to provide that connection.

One more thing? What about West Palm Beach station? Did they consider it? I just wonder that they didn't build one yet.

Where should they build a train station in the Cape Canaveral area? At the port on an offshore island, on a beach on another island, or on the mainland next to their mainline where most of the population lives? It will be significantly cheaper to do so on their mainline. Don't forget, All Aboard Florida is a privately ran and financed "express" train. For multiple stations in a metro area - at the port, at the beach,, at every town center - a publicly ran and financed rail line would be better. ;)
Placong a light rail line down the center of US 1 would reach the most beaches, business, industries, and homes. A few spurs could be built off that spine for local traffic.

Thanks for the response, but I'm quite familiar with the project. There have been some pretty compelling arguments made about why it won't be built. Hopefully they are wrong and construction starts soon :tup:

Could be truly transformative for Florida. Talk is cheap though, so I won't get my hopes up until it is nearing substantial completion.

I could certainly envision a station near Cocoa, and it would definitely be on the mainland before the Western turn down the Beachline Expressway to OIA.

Disney has an entire fleet of luxury coaches that shuttle people back and forth all day long from OIA to the Port. Not all trains would have to stop there, but a more frequent schedule just between OIA and Cocoa might interest Disney enough to be a minority partner. And, this will be the segment with the highest speeds. Several through trains from South Florida a day could stop there, but not all.

I think it could work. Disney of course would provide the 10 minute coach connection to the Port.

The new 125 mph tracks next to the Beachline Expressway will be mostly single track. All Aboard Florida (AAF) is planning to run 32 express trains a day over it within an 16 hour daily window. That's a train every half hour or so. That's about as many trains that can be run on a single track line without creating congestion and slowing down trains. There isn't that many windows for additional Disney trains heading towards the port over it. Double tracking the line will double the expense building that last 40 miles next to the Beachline to make room for more trains. Considering all the complaints about the additional 32 passenger trains a day further south - I don't think AAF will ever double track that section of track. Although Sun Rail might lay the second track for commuter trains. The best hope AAF may do is build a train station and have some or all of the trains stop there. But that still will not provide resort to port (without transfers) service that the motor coaches already provide. Every local resort to port passenger occupying a seat would reduce the amount of seats available for higher fares coming from Central to South Florida passengers. The all important higher fares AAF is relying upon to make this train turn a profit. That's why AAF is not planning a station there at this time......
And please don't reply with the counter argument that AAF is planning three stations in South Florida. Few passengers will be paying the higher fares AAF will be charging for local traffic when TriRail can charge significantly (80%) cheaper fares because they are subsidized and don't need to turn a profit. Most of the AAF passengers will be riding between Central and South Florida.