Arizona information?
 

I'll be in the Valley of the Sun next weekend for the Eagles game. If I have time, I'm planning on walking around Downtown Phoenix and Old Town Scottsdale. A friend is going with me, and I think we'll be hiking up Camelback Mountain and sitting poolside somewhere with some eye candy. Besides these things, is there anything else I should do or places I should go? Any neighborhoods, restaurants, bars, activities, etc, that are worth doing if I have the time?

That sounds like plenty for a weekend. There's not much unique stuff out by the stadium, but, Old Town has a lot of good restaurants bars and clubs; and, the Scottsdale Museum of Contemporary Art is next to old town. I'm a little partial to Los Olivos and Cowboy Ciao for food. Think about hitting up Mill Ave in Tempe, it really is the most urban area of the metro, from there you can take the rail downtown.

I would skip DTphx. So much more to see and do in Phoenix than to walk around a CBD on the weekend.

You're fun. :slob::slob:

Downton Phx.
 

This is a pretty cool place just south of downtown - fun, particularly if you're in your 20s. http://theducephx.com/

Downtown Phx can be fun if you know what you're doing. (I lived in DTPhx.). For the tourist, it will be an utter disappointment, especially if he's expecting something along the lines of Center City Philly.

I'm not hating. I love Phoenix. I don't want to direct someone to a place that will be difficult to have fun and wouldn't represent "The Valley".

I totally agree with Leo. If you were with someone from Phoenix to show you around, they could show you a great time downtown. But it's not as easy as saying "go HERE" and they'd have tons of obvious things to do. They would possibly be disappointed. So to avoid wasting their time and have a bad impression, I'd say avoid spending time downtown phx.

Hiking camelback, sitting poolside at a nice hotel, etc, those are slam dunks. Definitely going to see some eye candy in both places, and assuming you're in decent shape to make it to the top (bring water) you'll have a spectacular view of the city, better than most observation decks at other cities, from the top of camelback mtn.

Take light rail to mill ave in Tempe, walk around there and also go out in old town Scottsdale, and you'll probably find a good time. I think central and north central Phoenix have the best and most "hip" places in the valley, But again, it would be hard if you don't have a local with you.

Xzmattzx, you're welcome to PM me if you want more specifics.

I'd only be in Downtown Phoenix to see the Capitol and take some pictures for a photothread. I'm actually planning on doing that on Thursday right after I land, since I have better things planned for Friday and Saturday.

I'm actually planning a trip outside of the metro to the northern part of the state for Friday, since I'll have a rental car and exploring Arizona has been a bucket list item for almost a decade now.

Make sure to stop in Prescott, Jerome, then ultra-beautiful Sedona. Your eyes will explode. Have fun.

I agree. If time permits, definitely drive through Oak Creek Canyon to Flagstaff and the San Francisco Peaks. Maybe do a loop back down to Phoenix across the Mogollon Rim via Payson.

Grand Canyon is too far away for a short weekend. You'd want to dedicate an entire weekend for the canyon alone.

Thanks for the suggestions.

The Grand Canyon might need more than a few days, but I need to see it while I'm in the state. I'm going to have to settle for a day there.

Here's my itinerary for the weekend:

Thursday: arrive, walk around Downtown Phoenix and Old Town Scottsdale, drive to Flagstaff at night
Friday: Grand Canyon, hopefully I can wake up really early, stay in Flagstaff again
Saturday: Drive back to Phoenix through Sedona and Jerome, pick up my friend (if he ends up coming; still unsure), hike Camelback Mountain, go out at night
Sunday: Eagles game in Glendale
Monday: fly back early

Keep the suggestions coming, though!

So I might be picking up my friend from Las Vegas on Saturday, due to much cheaper flights there. So, I have a couple more questions as a result:

~ If I can't do the Grand Canyon and Sedona in one day, which should I do with the one day that I have up there?
~ Jerome is likely out. Are there any ghost towns on the way from Flagstaff to Las Vegas that I could see?

Thanks again for the responses!

I would suggest to your friend to pay the extra money and fly into Phoenix. You'll waste probably 10 extra hours of driving picking him up in Vegas. If time is money, I can't imagine he's saving enough to warrant spending your extra time. Not to mention extra gas money. Seems not at all a good idea.

If you HAVE to pick him up in Vegas, stop at the new bridge over the Hoover Dam. Or even go to the Hoover Dam. That would be pretty cool.

I can't think of much that is between Flagstaff and Vegas.

I would also suggest you hike Camelback Mountain Sunday morning before the game. I'd spend as little time as possible out in Glendale at the game. Unless you're tailgating.

The only ghost town I can think of that is remotely between Flag and Vegas would be Oatman. To get from Flag to Vegas you probably would take I-40 to Kingman and then US 93 to Vegas. Instead of going to Vegas out of Kingman, you turn a different direction to get to Oatman. So it's slightly out of the way, but it's as close as you are going to get to right on your route. Oatman is an old gold mining town that was pretty much abandoned as of about 50 years ago. Oatman is popular now for tourism because the town if full of wandering donkeys that descended from the original prospectors' pack animals. I also believe that Oatman is on the old Route 66 so there is some old highway nostalgia crap related to that too. Actually, I think Oatman was mostly abandoned when the interstate went through Kingman rather than right on the old Route 66.

I second the idea of your friend NOT flying into Vegas. You will lose a lot of your time driving around the middle of nowhere. If you do go to Vegas to get him, definitely stop at the Hoover Dam.

My tips would be:

Thursday - Walk around Downtown Phoenix and Downtown Tempe.

Fri - If you don't have time for the Grand Canyon, hanging out in Sedona for a day is a damn good 2nd option. Heading to Flagstaff for the night would be cool, college is in session, lots of fun bars.

Sat - Hike Camelback Mountain during the day and go out in Old Town Scottsdale at night. Get there around 9 to avoid lines.

Sun - Get to Glendale a few hours before the game with a 12 pack and tailgate on the lawn. There will be a live band and a good pre-game atmosphere.

Looks like I'm picking up my friend in Vegas. The flight was $400 cheaper. But I'll be in Flagstaff anyway. We're going to spend a little time in Vegas when I get him.

If you make it to Flagstaff, I suggest stopping at the State Bar on Route 66 between Leroux and San Francisco streets. Wide selection of beers and wines brewed in Arizona.

Sounds like an action packed weekend!

Not sure you're gonna be able to do all the things you'd like to though. The distances and time involved getting to each destination alone will eat up all your time to recreate and site see. There's only 11 hours+ daylight.

You might have to cut and refine the trip a lil bit.

A few things:

Within metro Phoenix, you are automatically driving between everything (except on the train between DT Phoenix and Tempe), but that's not necessary a bad thing.

One of the coolest things about driving around Phoenix in general is the number of natural promontory points throughout the city. You don't have to find parking garages to get views. So in between hitting downtown Phoenix, Scottsdale or Tempe, I would suggest driving on McDowell near 64th street through Papago Park (I would actually suggest Pagago to everyone - Hole in the Rock), 7th Street north of Dunlap near the Pointe, South Mountain Park and lastly one that would require about an hour of time: Tempe Butte in downtown Tempe. A quick easy walk to the top, amazing views all the way around the Valley and totally worth your time if you hit it at sunset.

If you really want to see the most 'urban' area of Phoenix that might actually be active on a Thursday afternoon / evening, then Tempe is your best bet. Aside from the bars, Scottsdale empties out after 5pm and isn't actually that walkable. DT Phoenix has some things to see, but be prepared for how disappointing it can really be. And the capital building is really a 10 minute drive, park, shoot and leave operation. Not terribly interesting. And it's not terribly convenient to walk to from the center of DT.

I do highly suggest driving down Central Avenue from Dunlap Avenue all the way into downtown. It's about 8 miles but gives you a great cross-section of the center of the city. And despite its suburban qualities, north Central looks really cool all lit up (Wilshire Blvd-esque).

Doesn't sound like you will have a great deal of time though. Hopefully you don't also have to drive your friend BACK to LV after the game.

LOL@this.

all the ideas + time constraint + having to literally waste time driving to Vegas + trying to spend "a little time in Vegas" = you will NOT see all of the following; metro Phoenix urban/natural sights, Sedona, Flagstaff, Grand Canyon, ghost town etc just no way. Cross some of those off

Also, after making my first trip to Bisbee AZ - I'd recommend the drive south through Tucson, via Benson and the famous Kartchner Caverns allowing you to cross through Tombstone and end in Bisbee. A totally different vibe than northern AZ and I personally loved it - beautiful weather, nicer people and I'd pick Bisbee over Jerome any day! BUT your trip is in the total opposite direction!

One could easily spend a month traveling Arizona!

Totally agree on your feelings about SE Arizona. It is my favorite part of the state. Love Bisbee so much. So authentic and yes, great people. Also driving through wine country such as Elgin, Sonoita and Patagonia. Not to mention Tubac and Tumacacori, too!

Bisbee is an underrated AZ city. The amount of historical structures still existing is awesome. Ive camped outside of Naco (AZ side). Did a mine tour in Bisbee, went to the OK Corral in Tombstone, Titon II launch sites, have gone to Kitt Peak observatory, went to the caverns east of Tucson (forgot the name).

Love Southern AZ. Temperate climate, fun topography. Interesting history.

I think I get the last laugh. ;) I got in almost everything I wanted to do. Here's what I did:

I walked around Downtown Phoenix

http://imageshack.com/a/img631/8840/RXdDNs.jpg

I went inside the capitol building

http://imageshack.com/a/img631/2247/PPpuAU.jpg

I walked around Old Town Scottsdale

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/6979/eNe0gg.jpg

I saw a desert sunset, from the Salt River Indian Reservation

http://imageshack.com/a/img901/594/NblWLo.jpg

I got a sliver of Route 66 architecture in Flagstaff

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/1249/fxNpzg.jpg

I walked around Flagstaff

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/5893/F1AU1q.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/312/BpHmWR.jpg

I drove through Coconino National Forest

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/1482/KRYoHt.jpg

I saw the Grand Canyon

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/5966/7pFQJk.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/4316/q4V76v.jpg

... including the sunset

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/1488/oqM2XS.jpg

I went out for the night in Las Vegas

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/9102/KqxcbQ.jpg

I also took a couple pictures along the Strip

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/4798/reuXJ0.jpg

I saw Hoover Dam

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/7195/V7TWuy.jpg

I didn't get to Jerome, but I stopped in what is also kind of a ghost town: Chloride

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/2149/Z0Yj9s.jpg

I saw saguaros and joshua trees

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/2453/OIw3Ff.jpg

I did all this while devoting an entire game to the Eagles game in Glendale

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/3817/lJwiCK.jpg

I didn't get to see Sedona in person, but I saw it from the plane

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/1453/SMSfQq.jpg

I also flew over the Grand Canyon

http://imageshack.com/a/img907/1076/uGA7B1.jpg


All in all, it was a great trip, and I showed that it can all be done. You are right, though, that I could spend a month seeing the state. There's still other stuff that I want to do if I get a chance to go back: Monument Valley, more Route 66 architecture, hike down the Grand Canyon, see more ghost towns, see Tombstone, Bisbee, et al, walk around Tucson, see petroglyphs, see more of the Valley, etc.

Sounds good! I wish you could have gone Sedona to Flagstaff via 89A. And there are a couple better places (IMO) than Flagstaff, Cloride, and Old Town Scottsdale (insert Prescott, Jerome, and Mill Avenue). But that's splitting hairs. And if you could have hiked to the top of Camelback Mountain, I think you would have liked it, but glad you mostly got to do what you wanted. Except see an Eagles win, but it was a damn exciting game!

I'd be interested in more of your comments/outsider perspectives on the Phoenix area (of course) and the state you saw in general. The City and state get a really bad rap on SSP. Some of it warranted, some of it just continuation of stereotypes. :tup:

Awesome trip! Did you stay at Talking Stick Resort in the reservation?

I kept note of some of my thoughts while on the trip. I'll post them later on. I wish I could've done Sedona, but I drove through to Flagstaff at night. I was hoping to catch the sunset there, but I spent too much time in Phoenix and Scottsdale, and getting the rental car isn't as easy as it is in other airports, like Orlando.

Sedona/Oak Creek Canyon, Prescott, Jerome or Oatman or somewhere else, and Tempe are on my list of places to see.

I stayed at a cheap hotel in Scottsdale. The hotel was just a place to sleep and shower. If it's not an all-out dump, I prefer to save my money and use it elsewhere, like on drinks. Staying in Scottsdale, and the pregames and parties for Eagles fans in Scottsdale, was the reason for seeing Old Town rather than Mill Avenue in Tempe, or Mesa's historic center, etc.

Here's some comments from my trip, for those that want the viewpoint of an outsider, or can answer questions:

~ Is there a name for the Phoenix metro area, besides "Valley of the Sun"?
~ I love that Arizona is more diverse than I originally thought. I knew that there was the Sonoran desert in the southern part of the state, and there is desert in the northern part of the state (Monument Valley, Meteor Crater area, Lake Mead area, etc). Even though I saw on the map that there are national forests in the central part of the state, I didn't really expect regular forests, like you might imagine in Colorado or something. Flagstaff is a mountain town kind of in the forest; it's not a desert town that happens to be really high up where it's cooler temperatures.
~ I wanted to buy a Northern Arizona University shirt for myself, or a Christmas present. I went to a store in Downtown Flagstaff, next to the Downtown Diner. The sign said that they open by noon, or when they feel like it, but you can text the owner if you want something off-hours. I was in town in the morning, but leaving for the Grand Canyon, so a place not open at 9 or 10 was bizarre to me. It's definitely not an East Coast kind of thing. Anyway, I texted the woman, but she was at her son's school play, so she wouldn't be there before I left. It's nice to put family first, which is also not common, but as someone used to always working and always finding time to work, it was
~ Although I needed to drive from Phoenix to Flagstaff at night, since I spent the day exploring Phoenix and Scottsdale, I wish I could've had more time, or more sunlight, to see the scenery on that drive. I wish I had time to drive through Sedona, too. Maybe another time I can see the pinelands in the light.
~ On the note of the drive up to Flagstaff, it's crazy how it's basically all uphill. Conversely, it's almost all downhill from the Grand Canyon (and Flagstaff, I'm assuming) to Las Vegas.
~ Driving from the Grand Canyon to Las Vegas, it was cool that there were no towns, so you could see where the Interstate was, because of the string of headlights and taillights. Also, It was a little disturbing, as an easterner, to see a sign saying that there were no services at any exits for the next 56 miles. There were exits on the way, which I didn't expect, but they apparently lead to nowhere.
~ You can see how the desert changes on US 93 south of Kingman and I-40. It wasn't that far south of the Interstate where the change happens. I'm guessing it's where the Mojave Desert becomes the Sonoran Desert. Is there a map delineating these borders?
~ In the Phoenix area, it was strange to see the left turn green signals come after the straight green lights. It's definitely not that way here, and I wonder if it's that way anywhere else.
~ It's strange to think that all of these spring training sites are all in one metro area. It's spread out in Florida (although concentrated in the Tampa Bay area and the Treasure Coast or Gold Coast), and it used to be spread out in Arizona, but now the Arizona sites are all within an hour of each other. While there, I saw the sites for the Diamondbacks/Rockies, Brewers, A's, and was near the Giants complex.
~ Is it normal to really like the desert? The desert is nature's dirt lot, in a way.

1. That's the name, although it's usually shortened even more to "The Valley".

2. The Mogollon Rim (big swath of N. Arizona) is all forest. I think it's the largest stand of Ponderosa Pines in the world. You would have loved the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. Same views as where you went, but it's in the forest with Aspen and pines and everything. It takes way longer to get there than the South Rim, but it's way less visited by tourists.

3. I-17 from Phoenix to Flagstaff is awesome (even more so if you take a jaunt through Sedona and Oak Creek Canyon via 89A). The high Sonoran Desert is beautiful, the vistas are amazing, you change from desert to forest, and some of the "scenic views" turn offs would have been awesome for an easterner.

4. The distances are certainly long and the population is definitely sparser in the rural areas of the west. I always hated driving as a kid seeing nothing. Now I think it's really cool.

5. You're right about the change in desert. North of Kingman through to Las Vegas the flora and fauna is more sparse as compared to the Sonoran Desert. You can probably see a map on wikipedia or something. But even that might not tell the whole picture, as the high Sonoran Desert is different from the low Sonoran Desert.

6. Scottsdale is the only City in the Phoenix area with lagging green left turn arrows (for the most part). Tucson also has them.

7. A lot of people love the desert, especially the Sonoran Desert. It has some amazing sunsets and a feeling of openness. Plus, the Sonoran Desert is actually very "lush" compared to other deserts. I think you would have loved a hike to get out and see that it's more than scrub brush and sand. It's a seriously dense ecosystem with some of the most unique plants and animals in the world. You could read more about it, and on shows like "Planet Earth" they've covered it. But I really like the desert.

Any thoughts on downtown Phoenix? And did you get to drive through the northern part of downtown and through the historic hoods of central Phoenix?

Do you know where the Ponderosa pine extends to? Is it in the Coconino National Forest northwest of Flagstaff?

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/8053/BseqFO.jpg

What is the type of tree on the south rim, seen here after the entrance?

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/319/MFHDFE.jpg

Downtown Phoenix wasn't that bad. It was a little small, but that’s to be expected of a Sun Belt city. Phoenix isn’t necessarily a hub of business, either, like Miami is a hub for business between the US and Latin America. The warehouse district was bigger than I expected. I saw a little bit of that. I saw a little bit of Woodland, near the capitol, and some of the neighborhood on the east side (not sure what it’s called), but that was it. Woodland was clearly lower class or lower middle class, and was nothing special. It’s no different than Elsmere, a bungalow streetcar suburb here in Delaware that is a little grungy, if not ghetto. The difference would be the desert landscaping, obviously.

Some more observations:

~ I like Northeast/Midwest cities for work. I like a city where you actually work, and you use your free time to relax. Phoenix definitely feels like a city where there is no work to be done. It's a city that revolves around pleasure and partying. Here, it feels like the weekend is a break between weeks at work. There, and places like Las Vegas, it feels like weeks are breaks between weekends.
~ I set a new personal record for highest elevation on the ground. A nice thing about Arizona is that they mark the elevations by 1,000 feet with a road sign. On US 180 from Flagstaff to Valle and the Grand Canyon, a little before you descend into the desert (near Red Mountain?), the high point of elevation is 8,046 feet, which is easily the highest up I’ve been on land. I think the next highest was the valley floor in Las Vegas, at ~3,000 feet, or maybe the the top of a mountain in the Appalachians (Bloss Mountain in the Allegheny Range in Tioga County, Pennsylvania, is ~2,148 feet).
~ Scottsdale reminds me of a desert version of Clearwater. I was in the Tampa Bay area last year for an Eagles game, and stayed most of the time in Pinellas County. There, you see anomalies like a strip club next to a library, or a fancy restaurant next to a trailer park. It’s not as dramatic, but the way the city developed is very random; for instance, on Camelback Road in Downtown, you have a high-end mall with valet service next to a midrise office building, which itself is next to a motel, which is next to a bank branch or other low-rise suburban arterial commercial stuff. Phoenix, on the other hand, has evolved like an older city. There’s a poor Black neighborhood east of Downtown, which is like my city of Wilmington, and like several other cities. There’s wealthier neighborhoods in some directions, and wealthy development is continuing out in those same directions.
~ What’s the farthest that people commute to work from? Are there a lot of people that live in, say, Wickenburg and commute to Phoenix for work? Things are getting crazy here, with people living in the Poconos/NE Pennsylvania (Stroudsburg, Wilkes-Barre, etc) and commute to New York City, because of the lower land prices in Pennsylvania. People live in the eastern Lancaster suburbs and commute to Philadelphia. Even with a small city like Wilmington, people live in Smyrna or Dover, and other places in northern Kent County.

Yeah, your picture shows ponderosa pines. I'm pretty sure most of the forests of northern Arizona are Ponderosa Pines (except a few areas with various other types of pines, but I'm not 100% certain).

The other historic neighborhood you were in was probably Garfield (just ENE of downtown). Those two areas are definitely the more run down historic neighborhoods, in addition to south Phoenix (or just demolished altogether), but they have some pretty neat little areas (for a young city like phoenix). Parts of them are seeing some nice renaissance though. Too bad you didn't have a chance to get more to the northern historic areas, but for you it wouldn't be that big of a deal probably, other than the fact that most people wouldn't associate Phoenix with historic streetcar-type hoods, since it's pretty common around the country.

I can kind of get what you are saying with regards to work/pleasure. I have never been back east, but I was in Chicago and it felt more business-y for sure.

People definitely commute from the far flung suburbs (and way out there communities like Wickenburg, Maricopa, Florence, etc.), but I don't know how prevalent it is. I know people also commute to work between Tucson and Phoenix. Which to me is crazy, but it happens.

Map of forested areas - awesome to see you had a great trip! I love Arizona - here are a couple more photos of our forested areas (sorry to spam your thread)
http://www.greenteamco.com/images/ponderosa-zonemap.png

http://www.azjournal.com/wp-content/...-contract2.jpg

Arizona forests above about 8,000 feet typically are a mix-fir type with aspen mixed in as well; alpine. There are swaths of forest on the Apache White Mountain Indian Res. for example that are nearly totally various fir varieties spotted with aspen and ponderosa!

here are just a couple of my photos from trips to other forested areas of the state;

Hawley Lake on WMAIR
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...a7&oe=54DDD3E7
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...cf&oe=54D6E489
Oak Creek Canyon in October one year. . .
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...0b6328b310a20f
Lockett Meadow Aspen in Fall (8,600 feet)
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...5d&oe=54DC283F
San Francisco Peaks by Flagstaff (above 10,000)
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...bc&oe=54AAB91A
Reservation Lake (9,200 feet +)
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...3f&oe=54D32228
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...c6&oe=54D6C700
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...3c&oe=54D600B4
66 degrees at 2:00 pm on a SUNNY August day in Arizona - I'm sure it was 40-50 degrees HOTTER back home in Phoenix. . .
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...f3ff1e91fba0c2

Thanks for the responses! Those pictures aren't spam. I'm still on a high from my trip, and even though I love the water (former swimmer, love to go to the beach, love maritime places and history, etc), the desert and mountains are so foreign to me that I'm in love with those things too. Arizona has been a mystical place to me every since being out went for the first time in 2005 in Las Vegas. To finally go has been great. I really had a bucket list plan to just drive around and see a bunch (10-12) places in the state, like the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Meteor Crater, the plain old desert, etc. To finally actually see some of those places was wonderful. I went on Amazon and bought a few cheap books because I want to keep learning about the state. So, with that in mind, keep feeding me information! I'll probably add some comments as they pop up in my head while the trip is fresh.

I think I saw some of those aspen on the drive from Flagstaff to Valle, as you get up past Agassiz Peak and climb up towards 8,000 feet. I also remembered an intersection in my area where the left turn green lights follow the straight green lights. We have that here for Polly Drummond Hill Road/Red Mill Road crosses Capitol Trail.

Gilbert and Goodyear do too.

Awesome :-D I guess growing up here took a lot of the mystery out of it for me but I didn't have a good appreciation for it all until I was older - now I am so very proud to be from Arizona (aside from politics)

Makes sense that it is not as wondrous for you as for me. It would be like someone from Phoenix coming to Delaware or some other place on the East Coast and seeing water everywhere: rivers, creeks, the ocean, bays, marshland, etc.


What kind of geography jobs are out there? I see stuff for the Salt River Project, but are there any other places, public or private, worth seeing if positions are available?

The National Parks and Forests, perhaps?

I'm going to keep this thread going a little bit longer. I have a few more questions and observations:

~ Definitely not used to covered parking in parking lots, which seem to be premium spots. It makes sense, though, to cover parking spots in the desert sun.
~ While solar energy isn't as efficient as other forms of energy, why aren't solar panels put on these roofs for covered parking spots? If it's just a metal roof to provide shade, solar panels on top would absorb that same sunlight that the roof provides shade for. Energy produced during that time would likely be used right then, because if someone is parking during the day and needing that shade, then they are in the relevant building using energy, like air conditioning.
~ When is Interstate 11 going to be finished? It looks like it's divided highway almost the entire way already. What will be done in spots where there's towns, like Wickenburg and Wikieup between the Phoenix area and Kingman, and then Kingman itself, and Dolan Springs and Chloride north of Kingman?
~ What is done with any saguaros that would be in the right-of-way for the I-11 construction? They take 100 years to grow, and don't grow everywhere, but they have big root systems, it seems. Would they be saved and moved somewhere else? Would they be cut down?
~ Besides Downtown/"Waterfront" (a joke compared to waterfronts in the eastern US and elsewhere, no offense) and Old Town, what other neighborhoods are there in Scottsdale? Is it all considered suburbia after that, or are there general areas? Other than historic signs for Scottsdale Estates, which I saw along Indian School Road, it just seemed like it was all regular stuff, but I obviously don't know the culture of any places big or small.

People normally don't put solar panels on top of parking because of cost. Most developers in the Phoenix area are a lot more frugal (although cheap bastards would be a better word choice) than those in the East Coast. There are exceptions though. ASU has some great solar power installation above their parking lots in Tempe.

Saguaros normally get relocated. Although the survival percentage is quite low. Unless they have a good irrigation system to make up for the loss of root structure, the outcome ends up being a dead saguaro after a few years.

And yeah, most of Scottsdale can be considered suburbia. There are some older neighborhoods around downtown, but the majority of the city (like most of the valley) started to grow in the 50's onward.

The first of a few photothreads:

Scottsdale pictures

Scottsdale has a split personality. North Scottsdale is quite rural with open lands, housing developments with big houses on large lots, strong NIMBYism.

South Scottsdale, has higher population densities, older tract homes, more crime, but more accepting of transit and development.

Old Town is really exciting right now. Unbelievable how much development is going on there right now. Many bars/clubs are reinventing themselves and very large urban developments are underway east of Scottsdale, south of Camelback.

Yea, the Old Town proposals and developments are the best in the Valley right now, IMO. They're denser and taller than anything in Phoenix, and most of the residential is condo vs. rental as compared with Tempe.

It gets a bad reputation because of North Scottsdale and because of its lack of height overall, but downtown Scottsdale is overall pretty impressive. It's just too bad about the immediate area around the mall: the fact that the mall is enclosed with suburban-style parking, and the empty lots near Safari Drive, which will fill up in time, but for now, leaves a pretty large hole in the streetscape.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I am working on my next Arizona photothread. I hope everyone liked the Scottsdale pictures!

After talking with PHX31, I've decided to ask a few more questions. I'm seeing if I can plan a return trip by summer.


~ How far of a drive is it to Tucson? Yuma? Bisbee? I know there’s Google, but sometimes I can beat it a little bit, and sometimes I can’t.
~ What is the best Mexican border town to visit? Mexicali, while farther away, is an estado capital, which seems like a good place to start, but I don’t know. What about Nogales? Or, the towns across the border in either estado? How would you rate the safety of any/all of the border towns? Is any safe enough to go into?
~ We talked about Jerome, but are there any ghost towns that are fairly accessible and are not tourist traps? Jerome is still inhabited; Oatman appears to have been discovered, based on comments on Google and things on Google Earth; and places like Chloride don’t seem to be ghost towns, more than they are old mining towns. Any place not inhabited? Any place that is stuck in time?
~ Is there a map of Phoenix neighborhoods? I know of a bunch, including some mentioned here, like Encanto, Willo Park, Palmcroft, and a couple other neighborhoods, and I know about some other neighborhoods outside of the CBD area, like the Biltmore District, Arcadia, and the Camelback Corridor. Google and Bing Maps sometimes are cloudy on neighborhoods, since they now seem to label apartment complexes and places like that.

Let me entice you guys to respond to my questions with some Grand Canyon panoramas that I put together:


http://imageshack.com/a/img910/2313/IRp9xJ.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/7272/JNA1LU.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img901/8277/v9dWz4.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/9115/qwcuv5.jpg

Nice pictures of the Grand Canyon! Although as you probably know, pictures can never do it justice.

Tucson is about 1.5 hours away, a pretty easy drive right down I-10 (although it sucks to drive that stretch, and can actually be pretty dangerous with all of the semi-trucks and you surely don't want to be caught driving down there during a dust storm). Yuma is maybe a little under 3 hours. Bisbee, I'm not entirely sure, maybe 3+ hours?

Mexican border towns (actually in Mexico) = meh for me. So I can't be a good resource on that subject, maybe someone else can. However, if I were to go to a border town in Arizona I would go to Douglas (not far from Bisbee). I don't have much experience in this regard though, it just seems like Douglas would be the nicest and most interesting to me.

Others might be better to speak on the subject of ghost towns, but I'm sure there are some out there. I would think there are some interesting places in NW and SE Arizona. But yeah, mostly old mining towns that are still inhabited, although are still pretty cool, Clifton, Globe/Miami, etc.

Here is a map of Phoenix's historic districts:
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Page...mapshpres.aspx
You touched on some of the bigger and more popular/established ones already. Willo, Roosevelt, Encanto-Palmcroft, FQ Story are the ones with the most "money" and wealth. A lot of the houses have been renovated and are some of the best and oldest in Phoenix (early 1900s-1930s).
Others like Coronado and Garfield are more "up and coming" although still gritty in areas and started off more blue-collar/streetcar suburbs (same age, just started out with less money). They are currently home to more hipsters and diversity and also have quite a few places of interest (bars/restaurants/etc) popping up. Coronado is probably the best mix of all, including some nice houses/more money, and close enough to light rail (and there are a couple of the new bike share stations within the neighborhood). Although not as ultimately desirable and expensive as the others mentioned above.

North Central Phoenix is probably the "hottest" area of the central city, IMO, although I'm not sure of any real neighborhood designations, it's mostly just referred to as North Central Phoenix. This may include Arcadia, but the "hot" area really stretches from Indian School Road-ish north to Northern-ish, near Central Ave east to 40th Street-ish (and maybe even beyond). There are so many new, cool, and just good bars and restaurants and hang out places. It's more of the gay area of town (although someone else might have more insight on the actual specific gayborhoods), but really just young to middle aged professionals (25-45 year olds would feel welcome at any of the hot spots, whereas Tempe or even Scottsdale clubs might trend more college aged). The neighborhoods are really nice from the mid-century, green, leafy (by Phoenix standards) and a lot of the best Mid-Century Modern houses, apartment complexes, and buildings and areas are there.

Regarding Mexican border towns, I would skip most of these. I have been to Nogales, Sonoyta, Naco. There's been a lot of cartel drug and human smuggling here, really not impressed with these border towns.

If you're considering going to Mexicali-Calexico, you may as well just fly into San Diego, take the trolley to San Ysidro border crossing, walk across the border and check out Tijuana.

Then drive on the 8 freeway to Southern AZ. Mexicali will be around 110 in the summer, Tijuana 75-80.

I was planning on visiting Tijuana in 2009 when I was in San Diego, but the State Department issued a travel warning to military members to not go into Tijuana. That was enough for me to decide that it was too dangerous to go over there. Is it still dangerous there? Is there any travel ban/warning still in effect?

Is there any town in Mexico on the border next to any state at all that is safe and worth seeing for a day? Any place near the border, as well?

While I work on my pictures of Flagstaff and elsewhere, here's an ongoing account of my trip:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=215176

Are there websites, links, PDFs, etc of neighborhoods in Phoenix (and Scottsdale, Tempe, and other cities in the valley)? Not just historic neighborhoods, but a map of every place in the common vernacular?

More detailed than you'd probably ever need:
http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/126_neigh...of_phoenix.png

Urban villages map, which doesn't necessarily match the native vernacular:
http://freegeographytools.com/wp-con...01/phoenix.gif